Toyota's New FJ

bobafett22 · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 10:27 am

I posted in this thread a while ago about the new 4dr Wrangler unlimited's possible pricing. In June's issue of Car and Driver, which I got yesterday, they have an article on page 36 about the 4dr Wrangler...Among other info, they say that the expected price of the 4dr Wrangler will start at about 21k for a barebone 2wd model and top out at 30k for a loaded model with all offroad goodies offered. This means that it looks like direct sales competition for the FJ as I thought, but I'll tell u one thing, for that price I'm in a Rubicon 4dr unlimited next year!

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:28 am

calamaridog wrote:

I've driven the 4.0 Toyota motor and it's more powerful than the 3.7 in my Liberty. It's also quieter and smoother. The specs for the two motors are as follows:

Jeep 3.7 v6 210 HP @ 5200 rpm and 235 lbft @ 4000 rpm
Toyota 4.0 v6 236 HP @ 5200 rpm and 266 lbft @ 4000 rpm

Hmm, which motor is more powerful. Oh wait, you wanted to compare a diesel motor to a gasoline motor, huh...

The auto tranny in the toyota shifts more firmly than my 4spd does, but I admit I haven't driven the newer 5spd Liberty for comparison.

I think comparing a diesel CRD is valid since we are talking about available engine options. 266 ft-lbs of torque seems a little weird when coupled with 4000 rpm. In the CRD I have idled up steep off road obstacles with 295 ft-lbs of torque at 1800 rpm.

As for the auto tranny in the toyota, is it the same 5-speed as in the '04+ Sienna? If so, they have a MAJOR shifting problem. The majority of the time, if you stomp on it, it goes into a 'transmission stall' and just builds rpms in the engine for at least 2 seconds, sometimes more. It's a pain to merge into traffic on any freeway. It's a well known problem with this transmission (Sienna) and there is no fix yet.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:35 pm

I just traded in my 2002 4x4KJ and thought seriously about the FJ...I figured FJ KJ FJ KJ...only one letter different. I liked the way the front fender is setup for clearance, I kinda liked the quirky appearance and coming with the rear locking axle is a nice touch...but for the size it is under engined and does not have good space inside (I guess I expected more)...and the visibility to the rear is pretty poor. The engine is about the same as the 3.7L Liberty...maybe a little quicker... when it came to acceleration (and I am comparing to a KJ with 32's and fully armored). The dealer actually asked me to park my Liberty off to the side???

Once I found that you need to run premium and that my intial impression was not anything special, I headed over to a Jeep dealer that I had called about a White CRD Sport. I liked the new grill with the fog lights...I actually liked the new sport interior with the dark grey door panels ( I had the Taupe Leather...always looked dirty )...I liked the ESP and ROM features ( not so much for myself but for anyone who drives my KJ for some reason )...I really liked the feel of Disc Brakes w/ ABS all around ( mine had drum in the back-the new KJ felt much better than my old KJ or the FJ )...but the crowning item was the 2.8L Diesel...it pulls so strong in traffic or on the highway. The fact that I could expect a fairly good MPG increase over my old gasser was the frosting on the cake. So I did it and drove home with the new KJ.

If I were going to buy something other than the KJ I would wait for the new Wranglers with 4 doors in the Rubicon package over the FJ. I think the Jeep is a much better "Bang for the Buck". I do still like the fact the the FJ was built tho...competion leads to competion and that is always a good thing. If it were not for the 4.0L premium gas vs 2.8L Intercooled Turbo CRDiesel, the decision would have definitely been more difficult. If it was the 3.7L KJ vs the 4.0 FJ...I would probably still be deciding.

I have been impressed more and more with the CRD...mileage is getting better and better 19city/26highway so far...the handling/braking/ride is awesome. Of course, I am going to modify it but I am going to take my time and pick and choose my mods. I know the KJ is tuff because I totally abused my previous KJ and it was still runing strong. I think that I am a complete Diesel advocate now tho. I had to make a CRDiesel decal for my back window so employees at stations would stop warning me that the pump I was using is Diesel and will destroy my engine.

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:20 pm

Darby, Awesome sticker! Also, thanks for your input about comparing the KJ with the FJ on your own personal level. It will help others make a decision down the road.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:42 am

the fj as kj thing will be ending very soon
i dont know if any body but me has noticed that the approach angle sucks on the fj unless you measure at the tires wich are behind that rediculs skid plate
i thought that the one on our KJ was bad until i saw that
also i have not got on the ground under on yet but i see some thing hanging down at or just below the rear axle tube with a skid plate on it have a look next time you see one but i think that is the fuel tank if it is a fuel tank that i can see at the same level as the axel on flat ground what happens when you stuff that rear tire? i think that you will get hung up on what ever it is that is stuffing that tire

i have yet to wheel with one but i welcome them or any rig for that matter i know that we had an FJ and an H3 running at the expo but i have never ever seen
an extera on the trail but if they are any thing like the frontier than i would suggest they stay on the dirt roads with the crv and the rav4 because the frontier even with a locker spent more time on the reciving end of a strap on one trail ride than i did in the past year and that was on a trail that we recomend for stock rigs and other than the log pile a more than 1 stock KJ has made the hole trail with no strap

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:37 am

Tokyojoe wrote:

Darby, Awesome sticker! Also, thanks for your input about comparing the KJ with the FJ on your own personal level. It will help others make a decision down the road.

I should add that the FJ and only the FJ teased me a little...nothing else out there even turned my head and the FJ will make you take a second look. I think Toyota did a very good job making the FJ look a little retro and still modern. Just like the KJ it is different looking and I think it will thrive. I bet there will be a SFA conversion on the FJ much quicker than on the KJ and just like Jeeps, it is all about how you mod them to your personal tastes.

As for Toyota's reputation in engines, they build rock solid stuff. All the small toys I have seen on trail have always run like tops.

The FJ and Hummer3 would also be a good match up offroad. H3 has a 3.5L (220hp@5600/225f#@2800) in a 4700# truck. It also has a selectable rear electronic locker with a 2-speed transfer case (4.03:1). You can get it with optional 285/75/16s (33's). It has a good approach and departure angles.

Tire size and fender openings are the KJs biggest hurdle IMHO...plus the aluminum diff and it's ability to handle larger tires.

jeepcrd · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:01 am

I test drove a voodoo blue FJ Cruiser on Monday. Even with the Premium Unleaded requirement, it was very appealing. With gas prices near or above $3/gallon, the spread between 87, 89, and 93 octane unleaded out here in the Midwest is only 10 cents/gallon right now.

They cost too much though. But I have a Toyota van, and reilability and serivce has been out of this world. It is night and day how toyota customers are treated by their dealers compared to Jeep dealers. I almost want to switch to get my other vehicle into the "Toyota Family."

jeepcrd · **Posted:** Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:51 pm

UPDATE - Premium Fuel is not required. It was used to achieve their HP and torque numbers so the Government made them use it. They just released a service bulletin to switch out all the Premium Unleaded stickers on the fuel door to just Unleaded.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:06 pm

jeepcrd wrote:

UPDATE - Premium Fuel is not required. It was used to achieve their HP and torque numbers so the Government made them use it. They just released a service bulletin to switch out all the Premium Unleaded stickers on the fuel door to just Unleaded.

Octane has nothing to do with HP and torque. Maybe the engine was designed with a certain compression ratio and needs premium fuel to run correctly, but not to get its HP and torque. :wink:

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:29 am

If the ignition adjusts timing by reading detonation (knock sensor), then premium could make better hp/torque. If it reads detonation(from regular fuel) and retards timing, hp/torque can be affected.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:36 am

jason thompson wrote:

i dont know if any body but me has noticed that the approach angle sucks on the fj unless you measure at the tires wich are behind that rediculs skid plate

i have never ever seen
an extera on the trail but if they are any thing like the frontier than i would suggest they stay on the dirt roads with the crv and the rav4 because the frontier even with a locker spent more time on the reciving end of a strap on one trail ride than i did in the past year and that was on a trail that we recomend for stock rigs and other than the log pile a more than 1 stock KJ has made the hole trail with no strap

That is how you measure Approach Angle. Easiest way is to get a piece of Plywood and put it against the tire at the ground...then lift the other end of the board until it hits something...measure the angle formed between the ground and the board...=Approach Angle

Xterras can be great offroad...Check out the XOC (Xterra Owners Club) forums. They have one big advantage over the KJs...wheel openings/tire size...they have an easier time fitting 33's ect. Don't judge them on one Frontier or Xterra siting...driver input can make a huge difference.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:44 pm

Local dealer had two and with no takers they finally dealer traded them to get something that was selling local, I had figured it would be a big seller here. Shows you what I know, I like the look from a distance, but I haven't got up close to one as yet. They have the same peoblem with hybrids, for some reason they just can't sell them local. Another Toyota vehicle that doesn't sell well for Toyota here in town is the Tundra. I have a nephew that has one and it is a nice truck, but it has awful seats, and the interior just looks cheap. I can't really put my finger on it as to why, but that is what I think every time I get into the truck.

TXriverrat · **Posted:** Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:17 am

I really like the FJ a lot. It comes with a lot of extra cool features we dont get with the KJs; Rubber floor that can basically be hosed out, locker, seat material is better, rear electrical plug, the back of rear seats and storage area is covered with plastic. The FJ is also more capable stock and just about everything is overall better quality. These are all features that I think the KJ should have or wished the KJ had, but Toyota could add any number of other features and I would have still bought my CRD. The Diesel option is the only reason I decided to buy my KJ. If they offered the FJ in the diesel then I would be on LOSTFJS.com right now. That is unless Jeep had these extras that make life a lot easier. I would rather own a Jeep than a Toyota but you can't argue with quality.

shred · **Posted:** Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:53 am

My CRD is in the Lemmon Law process right now. I am looking to replace it with an FJ or a Ridgeline. The FJ looks like more fun but the Ridgeline has a ton of room and places to store stuff. One of the reasons I am looking at these vehicles is the reliability and service that these two companies represent. I have owned cars from each in the past and had excellent experiences in both cases. I traded in an '04 Dodge 2400 Ram Deisel for this CRD. I never had the first problem with that truck in 2 years and 40,000 miles.

I love the diesel in my CRD but not all the headaches that have come with the vehicle. It has been out of service, in the shop, for 28 days in 6 months. If it had not been for this forum, I would not have had a clue about how to handle some of these problems. I thank you guys for all your valuable information and ingenious inventions to make the CRD better. The deciding factor in getting rid of my CRD was the service. The last time I had it in for a tranny leak I had an oil change done. It took two days just for them to look at the transmission. They said it would be several days to order the filters to replace the origional transmission filters, which were installed backwards at the factory. I brought it home and it proceeded to leak dirty engine oil all over my garage floor for the next week. When they did the oil change they spilled oil all over the skid plates, and didn't even bother to clean it up. With all the problems I have had with my CRD and more problems down the road combined with the sloppy work in the service dept., I am calling it quits. Oh, and I just brought it back again for another transmission leak. This was last Friday. When they told me it would be Monday before they could look at it, even though the service is open on Saturday, I said I would leave it with them anyway. Only then did they put it up on the rack and look at it. They found a leaking seal in the linkage that was not properly sealed at the factory. This whole process took all of ten minutes to find and fix. The only reason they looked at it right away was because the service manager knew that I had applied for the Lemmon Law and called the district Service Rep. She told him to look at it immediately and not to have it out of service because it would look worse in the arbitration.

Sorry for all the negitivity, but I tried my best to stay the course with my CRD. I just don't see it in my best interest to continue. By the way, the Lemmon Law pays me for all added extras, taxes, title, and any L.O.S.T. revenue due to out of service, minus a reasonable amout for the miles driven.

alljeep · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:09 am

shred wrote:

My CRD is in the Lemmon Law process right now. I am looking to replace it with an FJ or a Ridgeline. The FJ looks like more fun but the Ridgeline has a ton of room and places to store stuff. One of the reasons I am looking at these vehicles is the reliability and service that these two companies represent. I have owned cars from each in the past and had excellent experiences in both cases. I traded in an '04 Dodge 2400 Ram Deisel for this CRD. I never had the first problem with that truck in 2 years and 40,000 miles.

I love the diesel in my CRD but not all the headaches that have come with the vehicle. It has been out of service, in the shop, for 28 days in 6 months. If it had not been for this forum, I would not have had a clue about how to handle some of these problems. I thank you guys for all your valuable information and ingenious inventions to make the CRD better. The deciding factor in getting rid of my CRD was the service. The last time I had it in for a tranny leak I had an oil change done. It took two days just for them to look at the transmission. They said it would be several days to order the filters to replace the origional transmission filters, which were installed backwards at the factory. I brought it home and it proceeded to leak dirty engine oil all over my garage floor for the next week. When they did the oil change they spilled oil all over the skid plates, and didn't even bother to clean it up. With all the problems I have had with my CRD and more problems down the road combined with the sloppy work in the service dept., I am calling it quits. Oh, and I just brought it back again for another transmission leak. This was last Friday. When they told me it would be Monday before they could look at it, even though the service is open on Saturday, I said I would leave it with them anyway. Only then did they put it up on the rack and look at it. They found a leaking seal in the linkage that was not properly sealed at the factory. This whole process took all of ten minutes to find and fix. The only reason they looked at it right away was because the service manager knew that I had applied for the Lemmon Law and called the district Service Rep. She told him to look at it immediately and not to have it out of service because it would look worse in the arbitration.

Sorry for all the negitivity, but I tried my best to stay the course with my CRD. I just don't see it in my best interest to continue. By the way, the Lemmon Law pays me for all added extras, taxes, title, and any L.O.S.T. revenue due to out of service, minus a reasonable amout for the miles driven.

I hear ya - jeep service sucks. I had an appointment to get a TSB reflash only for 7:30am one day. By closing time at 8pm they had done nothing - claimed they were backed up on transmission work??? Whatever, I had to leave it two days to get a reflash done, how stupid is that.

I'm going to a Toyota dealer again this morning to look at a silver FJ. One main problem I have with the FJ is they come with very little base options - you have to get an $1800 convenience package just to get cruise control - I just hate how Toyota bundles their packages. I think I found a dealer in Ohio that sells FJs for $2000 below sticker where all others are still at or above sticker.

They want to appraise my CRD and again I say whatever - we all know how that goes. I love the diesel CRD but I can tell the tranmission is starting to go at only 14k miles...

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:55 am

You might want to strip it before you trade it off, some here might want to buy some of your upgrade's.

btolle · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:59 am

Toyota's quality is fantastic. And their longevity is also great. My Sister-inLaw's Forerunner has about 175K miles on it with no problems. And I have seen lots of 200K+ Toyota's that were trouble free.

When we bought the Liberty the real deciding factor was that the Liberty (as well as all other Jeep's with 4WD) with automatic transmissions can be flat towed behind a motorhome. I don't know about the FJ but other Toyota's and Nissan's with auto transmissions cannot be flat towed without extensive modification (which would probably void the warranty).

I know a man who just traded his 300K+ Cherokee in on an FJ but I haven't been able to get inside it yet or ride in it but I know he looked a long time at Jeep's before he traded. He is not an offroader so he may not have even opted for 4WD.

alljeep · **Posted:** Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:47 am

I like looking at these things just because they are so funky. I finally found one that would make somebody a good work truck in maybe the construction industry.

The only option on this one is the 6-speed manual option. This forces it to be full time 4x4 and also forces the additional rear selectable locker (usually an option). This one does not even have the convenience package (no cruise control, no window tint, no rear window wiper, no "image lights" on the side mirrors).

Also has the base, factory steel wheels. It stickers at just a hare over $24k (far cry from the blinged up $32k models). And now some dealers are coming down up to $2k off of sticker. Check it out:

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:20 pm

Fugly!!!

USAFCOP · **Posted:** Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:35 am

That sounds like My Liberty when I ordered it!!! Nothing extra except the tow package!!!!

Toyota's New FJ

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