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 Post subject: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:01 am 
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Do you remember hearing the question, “Would you rather live in the mountains or on the ocean?” I was the guy who always answered, “The Mountains” without hesitation. I’ve been a mountain man ever since I can remember. My passion for the mountains may seem rather strange since I was born in Kansas. Regardless of my environmental factors, I have gravitated towards the mountain life. I never did like big bodies of water or had a desire to own a jet ski, motor boat, pontoon boat, or sailboat. My idea of water was a mountain stream. As an avid backpacker, I’ve always desired natural springs and high elevation streams for a good source to pull drinking water from. And more times than not, I’ve always setup camp near streams for a peaceful night’s sleep.

But moving on to my point – rivers, streams and small mountain lakes have always been my desired water choice. My wife and I both enjoy whitewater rafting and cruising out on calm mountain lakes, streams and rivers. For this reason, we have set out on a quest to find the perfect watercraft that would accommodate for the various types of water activities that we enjoy.

Initially, we looked at canoes. Canoes can hold a fair amount of weight, are comfortable for 2 people, and allow plenty of space for gear. The downside to the canoe is the lack of stability, especially in class 2 whitewater or streams with lots of exposed rocks and boulders.

We then looked at inflatable rafts. Overall, the inflatable rafts have the same benefits as the canoe, plus they are much more stable for class 2 & 3 whitewater and very resilient to rocks and boulders. The downside is the hassle of airing up and deflating; but then again, a deflated raft would store and carry much easier than other types of watercraft.

Lastly, we looked at kayaks. Neither one of us wants to go solo; therefore we were automatically limited to a few tandem kayaks. I feel rather claustrophobic in a kayak, so that was another negative. Kayaks are also limited to the amount of load and space capabilities. However, during our tandem Kayak search, we read a lot of good reviews about the Malibu Two-XL made by Ocean Kayak. This particular model has elevated comfy seats, which took away my claustrophobic anxiety. And, this particular craft is fairly large in size and holds up to a 500 lb. capacity. We haven’t made a decision yet, but so far, we like this model the best.
http://www.oceankayak.com/kayaks/tandem ... bu_two_xl/

For those who have experience, I'm open to comments, suggestions, or anything that might add to our decision making.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:15 am 
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What category of white water will you be going through? Personally I don't like open tops in anything but calm water. If you roll you're going to be thrown out and stand a pretty good chance of losing your kayak

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:04 am 
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cgass wrote:
What category of white water will you be going through?


Mainly just floating down rivers such as the Colorado River, Rio Grande, and a few others with moderate rapids, maybe class 1 water with class 2 rapids.


cgass wrote:
Personally I don't like open tops in anything but calm water. If you roll you're going to be thrown out and stand a pretty good chance of losing your kayak


Class 1 and 2 are fairly calm as long as there aren’t obstacles, e.g., rocks and boulders. Class 3 can get a little hairy, especially in a kayak. Obviously, professionals will take kayaks down class 4's and 5's.

It really depends on the time of year and the section of the river. Right now is a good time to hit the Colorado River as long as there isn’t too much snowmelt. I’ve seen the Colorado River near Moab rise 3 feet over night, therefore allowing a class 1 to turn into a class 3 really quick.

Ultimately, I would like to be able to take a 2-4 day kayaking/rafting trip through a good section of river and camp at night.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:12 am 
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I know you were looking for an tandem, but have you considered a touring kayak? That would give you some bulkheads for storage and larger bungee attachment points. If you're planning on multi-day excursions they're usually the best way to go. Here's a good open top one http://www.wildernesssystems.com/product_subcategory/index/products/light_touring/light_touring_tarpon/

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:34 am 
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Yeah, hauling one craft is much easier than hauling two around, plus the wife doesn’t want to go solo. In all honesty, I can put two weeks’ worth of gear and food into one backpack, so storage isn’t that big of a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:21 am 
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I certainly understand only wanting to haul one. I would take a look at any kayak you want to buy in person if possible before you make a purchase. I know you live in a pretty remote area so I'm not sure how easy that would be. If you can, take your pack along so you can see if it will fit in the bungee webbing areas. Invest in some dry sacks too, if you don't have them already. I'm partial to Seal Line myself.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:38 am 
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cgass wrote:
I certainly understand only wanting to haul one. I would take a look at any kayak you want to buy in person if possible before you make a purchase. I know you live in a pretty remote area so I'm not sure how easy that would be. If you can, take your pack along so you can see if it will fit in the bungee webbing areas.


Albuquerque is a little over two hours away and they have a few different stores (including REI) that carry the Ocean Kayak and other brands.

cgass wrote:
Invest in some dry sacks too, if you don't have them already. I'm partial to Seal Line myself.


We have different sizes of OR dry sacks. I really like their quality. Seal Line is also a good brand.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Do you have any kayak rental places near you? You might want to try out a sit on top kayak on the rivers. They would be a good source of information too. I know you said you would only expect to see class II rapids, but a storm has the potential of making them class II+ or class III. From my experience, the sit on top kayaks just aren't stable enough for that kind of water.

If you can try them out in the rivers your going to be paddling and you have no problems, then go for it.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Actually, I know a couple who have the Malibu Two-XL, that’s how I discovered it. He and his wife are leaving today for Moab and going to float a good portion of the Colorado River. I’m anxiously waiting for their return so I can hear the trip review. The Malibu Two-XL is 34” inches wide, which on average is 4” – 6” inches wider than the standard kayak.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:51 pm 
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canoes are heavier and rafts are too much of a hassle imo. i love kayaking! i dont have any experience with that specific ocean kayak but one of my fishing buddies has a similarly sized angler model ocean kayak. his is very stable and he can haul a ton of gear. ive stood up to sight fish from his, no way i would do it from my wilderness systems tarpon. i would trust a kayak in rougher water over a canoe. good thing about sit on top kayaks is you can flip them over and they will still float. ask me how i know. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:56 pm 
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dont skimp out on paddles either! i just bought a nice carbon fiber paddle, money well spent.


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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:01 pm 
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For mountain lakes, a sailing canoe or sailing kayak would be my choice!

Image

Image

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http://www.ocsg.org.uk/

You can go smaller or larger. Build your own, buy it. Simple rig or two sails. Leeboards or not. Lots of choices. Sailing kayaks are cool too. Both are light and not too hard to store or transport.

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Last edited by Draco on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:04 pm 
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I’ve read dozens of reviews on the Ocean Kayak Malibu Two-XL and they were all good. Even the people who use them in rivers said they were very stable through the rapids and very maneuverable. I saw a youtube video where fishing television show was using them 30 miles out into the ocean. Those waves out in the ocean are much stronger and larger than what you would see in most rapids.

Here’s a video that gives you some info on the Malibu Two-XL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9UuUWQnjJQ

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:09 pm 
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DirtyKK wrote:
dont skimp out on paddles either! i just bought a nice carbon fiber paddle, money well spent.


That's good to know.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:13 pm 
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Draco wrote:
For mountain lakes, a sailing canoe or sailing kayak would be my choice!.


My idea of a mountain lake is what people in the Midwest call a pond. :ROTFL: Otherwise, those sailing canoes are pretty cool, just not my gig.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:17 pm 
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Good paddles are a must and if you are looking at tandames a winter water canoe might be a good idea. Lots of room, comfy on long trips, and very stable. Plus I don't know how easy it is to get two person kayak rolled back over with a flustered wife. :ROTFL:

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Here's a reputable company that makes rafts. I'd definitely consider buying a raft if I knew I would use it frequently. This would be the ultimate floating excursion overnight adventure.

http://www.aire.com/aire/products/?type=31

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:34 pm 
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audiboy86 wrote:
Plus I don't know how easy it is to get two person kayak rolled back over with a flustered wife. :ROTFL:


You hit the nail on the head. I think she might be happier floating down the Colorado River in a raft than she would a kayak. She's been whitewater rafting on class 2, 3, and 4 rapids, but she was also in a nice fat raft which I think made her feel a little safer and less likely to flip. I think a kayak would be fine as long as we were floating down a class 1 or 2. A raft doesn't move very fast whereas a kayak is very directional and can pick up speed.

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Here are two alternatives to a tandem/raft kayak:

http://www.aire.com/aire/products/default.aspx?id=212

http://www.aire.com/aire/products/default.aspx?id=203

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 Post subject: Re: In search for the perfect watercraft
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:31 am 
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I would say all the advice on here is very well said.

I would add a couple pieces of advice:

1) Whether it be a canoe OR kayak (sit on top or otherwise) good paddling knowledge and first hand experience of how your craft responds to various conditions beats out how "good" the craft is any day. I know an individual that won't even sit in a kayak because he is so well seasoned in a canoe that he canoes with a whitewater solo canoe with a deck cover and swears it is better than a kayak.

2) As someone said, try out the type of craft you are interested in before buying one. You may find that you (or your wife) don't like how the stability of a craft feels. With canoes there are various levels of "stability" and canoes are considered to have a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level of stability, meaning some only have 1 and 2 (which is fine) it's just that you don't "feel" stable, even when it would take a serious wave to tip you over.

3) Once you decide on a craft, get out and use it in a "controlled" environment prior to taking it into the "wild" as many things can and do happen. Whether it is a canoe, kayak, sit on top kayak, or tandem, you (and your wife) will need to know how to correct or respond to many conditions that the water can expectedly and unexpectedly throw at you.

4) For example, while a sit on top may not seem more stable, in the event you flip, if you and your wife are in it, you both would be ejected from the craft and you both would have to get it righted and back in (possibly in the middle of a lake, river, class 1 water, whatever. If you are in a tandem kayak (not sit on top) you and your wife should know exactly how you need to "roll" it back over TOGETHER. This can be tricky (especially in the middle of a lake where you or your wife could be panicking, gear floating away, etc.

5) Take a class from a local outdoor store (many around here offer "lessons" on how to paddle, handle different situations, etc) It helps to know what type of paddling works in different situations, and how to right a canoe/ kayak in the middle of a lake where you can't touch bottom. Believe it or not, this is a basic skill taught at our summer camps for kids around here in the Midwest, and I've personally seen many kids/ young adults panic when it actually happens, even when they know what to do. There are some "tricks" to knowing what to do in these situations.

6). I'm reiterating this one: Once you've decided on a craft take it out and use it many times before you get it out in the wild! Especially if you're not experienced with that particular craft. First hand experience of your craft and experience using it goes a LONG way when you know how it responds to getting hit by different size waves, winds, eddys, and if you're in a craft that you are paddling with your wife, even if you've been married a long time, know how to communicate back and forth in a craft your "driving" together, who is doing what, when, and what that does to the navigation of your craft. Just like in a marriage, communication with your paddling partner is critical!

on a side note, my wife and I can't do quite a few other things together very well, but paddling a canoe is one of the few things we just click on and we know exactly how to communicate with one another to "drive" our canoe. On another "side note" I go to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, every year for the last 5 now (going on my 6th trip this summer). It is backcountry canoeing/ camping where you are out of touch with civilization (unless you take a satellite phone). If something happens up there it is very hard to get out if you or your paddling partner are critically injured, it's a LONG way out in most cases, well at least as far as we go in. A very seasoned young paddler drowned in a very deep lake while fishing from shore late one evening, It took a week of specialized equipment to get in find the young lad's body, and get it transported out. Not saying that to scare you, it is leading me to my next point:

7) ALWAYS wear a life jacket when paddling! It seems like "common" sense, but when the weather is really nice, it is tempting to take off the life jacket. In fact, when in the boundary waters, I wear it even on shore, as some shore lines drop off fast an rocks can get slippery. I even use my life jacket as a secondary pillow when camping up there in the BW, as winds have been known to blow a tent into lakes with people in them.

8) No matter how good a swimmer you are, try swimming any distance with shoes and clothes on, with and without a life jacket. It is amazing how much certain clothes and boots/ shoes can hamper your ability to swim (and survive) under the unfortunate circumstance you do end up in the drink!


Sorry for all the "negative", but when it comes to paddling, it is important to know your abilities, and know your risks, and be well prepared for knowing what your skills and abilities can and can't do to help you get out of certain situations.

9) Also, practice putting whatever craft you get onto your vehicle or mounting system. This can be easy or not, and make sure that you and your wife can do it together, or depending on the craft, alone. With my lifted liberty I can actually load my 85lb canoe better by myself than with my wife as it is hard for her to lift it up high enough to get it on the JEEP (and she's 5'10").

10) I personally also prefer a canoe, you can do a LOT of paddling in a canoe that you can do in a kayak. We have a kid, two dogs, and it is nice taking them all, when paddling it can hold a lot of gear (even if you can fit everything for two weeks into a backpack :)) Beyond this trip, a lot of people I know (including myself) often find a canoe to be more versatile.

11) Get a dry bag! In the event you do go in the drink, you want your stuff to stay dry and float :) Nothing stinks more than getting dunked in cold water, trying to dry off, and have to spend a day (or more depending on your weather) drying your clothes and sleeping bag out, trust me, I know :)



Good paddles, canoes, and crafts are one thing, being well versed in how they handle can go a long way! Just like a good JEEP ;)

on the paddle note, I have one friend who prefers a 60" boat oar over a dedicated paddling paddle. In a canoe on a bigger body of water, the oar gives a LOT of control. Obviously if you're leaning towards a kayak, you'll want a good kayak paddle...


I'm sure I could rattle off much more, if you want to hear and see some awesome paddling stories and advice go to http://www.bwca.com It is a site that is dedicated to the Boundary Waters, but many people post about trips paddling other places. Lots of great tripping while paddling advice, knowledge, and what not.

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