M116A3 off-road camper build

lfhoward · **Posted:** Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:15 pm

The weather forecast says 7 straight days of RAIN! I put a second tarp over the trailer this morning in hopes of keeping it as dry as possible. The one I was using before had a couple of holes and leaked in the last big storm, causing some water damage. Now it is doubled up at least on the roof. Fingers crossed!

lfhoward · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:06 am

Battening down the hatches for possible hurricane Joaquin this weekend. So far the trailer has weathered a lot of rain without any damage that I can detect (without taking the tarps off). Not much progress to report lately because of the nasty weather.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:41 pm

lfhoward wrote:

Battening down the hatches for possible hurricane Joaquin this weekend.

Stay safe!

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:53 pm

Lauren, I'm posting this video here. You may not have this issue. This is the first time seeing this. The batteries are all new so I have no clue what the issue could be.

https://youtu.be/j4WxZI_d_r0

lfhoward · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:41 pm

PALiftedKK wrote:

Lauren, I'm posting this video here. You may not have this issue. This is the first time seeing this. The batteries are all new so I have no clue what the issue could be.

https://youtu.be/j4WxZI_d_r0

I can't seem to get the link to work.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:46 pm

A cold, wet camper trailer in hibernation.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:15 pm

heres the link from previous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4WxZI_d_r0

I've sort of figured it out. The tracer needs to learn the higher capacity. I assume that's the issue. I hope you don't run into this issue. issue being once solar panel has disconnected, battery voltage drops to around 12.7v and once the panel connects, voltage jumbos to 14.6ish.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:48 pm

I'll be interested to see how you solve the issue where the charge controller thinks your battery is full when it isn't. Hopefully mine will work ok. I have the 10 amp version of the Tracer. Are you running the 20 or 30?

I'm looking forward to testing the solar panel with the charge controller. I have the Tracer charge controller hooked up to the battery bank but haven't yet plugged in a panel. Right now the camper trailer is under tarps weathering out the storm, so I'll have to wait for better weather.

Quick unrelated question. Do you have your battery system and the power inverter grounded to the body/chassis? My inverter's instructions say to do this (there is a separate ground hookup in addition to + and -), and I am considering the pros and cons. The floor of the trailer is steel, but everything electrical is isolated from it by wood.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:14 pm

lfhoward wrote:

I'll be interested to see how you solve the issue where the charge controller thinks your battery is full when it isn't. Hopefully mine will work ok. I have the 10 amp version of the Tracer. Are you running the 20 or 30?

I'm looking forward to testing the solar panel with the charge controller. I have the Tracer charge controller hooked up to the battery bank but haven't yet plugged in a panel. Right now the camper trailer is under tarps weathering out the storm, so I'll have to wait for better weather.

Quick unrelated question. Do you have your battery system and the power inverter grounded to the body/chassis? My inverter's instructions say to do this (there is a separate ground hookup in addition to + and -), and I am considering the pros and cons. The floor of the trailer is steel, but everything electrical is isolated from it by wood.

I have the same as you.

I've been having this battery issue for going on 4 days now. I'm getting pretty p/o with it! I've had it charging for 3 days with 2 dumb chargers along with the charge controller outputing avg of 2 amps.

My solar setup is 100% isolated from the jeep. 4 gauge wire up to the front cigerate lighter is only plugged in when the solar panel is not strong enough to charge the batteries.

Maybe you should think about a power connection to your trailer batteries when traveling and no a.c. is avalible. :2cents:

I'd only suggest grounding the inverter to the trailer chassis if you never hooked up the trailer to your jeep. No real benefit to going that route, just complicating things a little more. I won't go into detail about that though unless need to be. Your inverter is no more then 5 foot from the batteries so youd be better off running your power cables directly to the battery bank.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:49 pm

The wiring diagram is on p 12.
http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Power-Inverters/PROwatt-SW/975-0529-01-01_Rev-B(PROWatt%20SW%20Inverter%20NA).pdf

The inverter actually has 3 terminals, a +, -, and chassis ground. The + and - are wired directly to the battery.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:16 am

Refer to page 9.

I wouldn't recommend it. The chasis ground is for the a.c. ground prong. Of there is a short, that voltage is out onto the trailer chassis. Your trailer is isolated from earth so connecting it to the chassis is useless. If there's a short while the trailer is hooked up to the jeep, that 120v is sent to your jeeps chassis risking your tpm.

Now I have no clue why the manufacturer would design such a device... Hopefully this makes since to you.

If I were you I'd call the company and explain EXACTLY what you intend the inverter to do and how it is hooked up to and powered.

If theirs a short, a gfi will shut power down weather there is ground or not.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:36 pm

Today the weather is cold and drizzling, but I couldn't stay away from doing something on the trailer.

Without taking the tarps off, I rolled up the sides a little so that I could access the side utility doors. What I found was a little wetness dripping down the sides of the trailer, but no warping of wood or absorption of the water as far as I can tell. I will not be able to examine the roof until a nice dry day, but I am 99% sure it is ok up there under the second smaller tarp.

With the side utility doors open, I found it was bone dry inside. :BANANA:

Very glad of that, since the electronics are in there. I did a couple of small projects with the electrical:

1) I hooked up the 1000 watt pure sine wave inverter using 2 gauge cables. It works great! About 30 seconds after turning it on, the automatic transfer switch senses the current and then turns the power on to the household 120 v AC outlets. My multimeter showed 128 volts at the outlets, so there is plenty of AC power! The inverter is now wired and ready to go.

2) I built the aluminum frame that will hold the solar panel to the roof, and bolted the solar panel to it. The solar panel can now be positioned at a ~40 degree angle, which is about ideal for this latitude when it is pointed south. The frame can also be collapsed and secured flat for travel, or for when the trailer cannot be parked pointing south.

3) I hooked the panel up to the Tracer charge controller in the trailer for the first time (wires out the door and solar panel sitting on the driveway). What I found was even on this cloudy, drizzling day, the panel outputted 28 volts. The batteries registered 12.52 volts before connecting the panel, and 12.68 after, which means they are getting positive juice from the system. It will take a much sunnier day to charge them fully, because that would take 13.5+ volts. I believe something like 12.8 volts registering from the battery after it has sat a while and equalized is a full charge.

After playing with the electrical for a little while, I disconnected the solar because I didn't want to charge the batteries long enough to accumulate explosive gasses under the tarp. (I need to buy a hole saw of the right diameter so that I can install the battery box vents soon. Until then I will only charge the batteries when I can vent the whole trailer.) Next, I buttoned up the tarps again and secured them with ratchet straps. We are still going to get 40+ mph wind gusts and scattered showers from the hurricane offshore, and I want the trailer to be ok overnight. Maybe tomorrow afternoon I can take the tarps off and dry everything out.

I'll report on the condition of the roof at that time. Thanks for reading!

lfhoward · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:43 pm

PALiftedKK wrote:

Refer to page 9.

I wouldn't recommend it. The chasis ground is for the a.c. ground prong. Of there is a short, that voltage is out onto the trailer chassis. Your trailer is isolated from earth so connecting it to the chassis is useless. If there's a short while the trailer is hooked up to the jeep, that 120v is sent to your jeeps chassis risking your tpm.

Now I have no clue why the manufacturer would design such a device... Hopefully this makes since to you.

If I were you I'd call the company and explain EXACTLY what you intend the inverter to do and how it is hooked up to and powered.

If there's a short, a gfi will shut power down weather there is ground or not.

At this point, the inverter is only connected by + and -, not the chassis ground. However, my multimeter registers a ~0.15 volt differential between the inverter's grounding screw (or its metal housing) and the negative battery terminal. I could also wire the grounding screw directly to the - terminal of the battery, skipping the chassis, if there might be a problem with leaving the inverter ungrounded. Thoughts?

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:58 pm

Again, id give them a call. And it's a 100% no for hooking chassis up to the battery.

Remember if there's a short, 120v goes through the chassis ground. 120v and a 12v system= a big boom.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:21 pm

Here's a very interesting read.
http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=106689

If I understand right, the grounding screw on the inverter is there for the AC ground, not the DC side of the system. So, if there is a fault and the AC ground wire is energized, and the screw is bonded to the trailer chassis, the trailer becomes energized with AC. If you happen to be standing in wet grass and touch the trailer frame... Zap! You become the fuse between the trailer and the earth. This is assuming the chassis has no earth ground of its own, and the trailer is using the inverter, not shore power. The point is also made that some inverters internally bond the "neutral" AC pin and the ground together, which can also create a charge differential between the trailer and the earth if the ground screw is bonded to the chassis (potential zap). I will need to use my multimeter and check for continuity to see if this is the case.

The conclusion in the 3-page thread above is to NOT connect the ground screw on the inverter to the chassis. Now in my case, there is a metal leg on the tongue that might facilitate an earth ground from the chassis, so maybe the ground connection from the screw to the chassis would work properly if the leg is deployed and the trailer is not hooked up to my TV and "floating."

My inverter works fine without connecting the ground screw - I hooked it up to the battery bank today. No part of the trailer's electrical system grounds to the trailer frame currently, so it is always safe to touch the metal floor. I am still on the fence about whether to connect the inverter's ground screw to the steel chassis. In either scenario, the GFCI should trip and save the day if anything went wrong.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:41 pm

the gfci will take care of any short even with out the grounding to earth or trailer. the gfci will operate fine with out the ground to earth but can potentially harm the device plugged into it.

99.99999% chance of never having an AC short unless you stick the wife's hair dryer in the tub. haha.

Im almost certain that nothing bad will happen if the inverter is not grounded. if you really want it to be grounded, fuse 0/00 wire to a chain link and once in site burry it like 4 inches in the dirt. that should work perfectly "temporarily". :2cents:

EDIT: or a rod. that work easier.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:25 pm

PALiftedKK wrote:

if you really want it to be grounded, fuse 0/00 wire to a chain link and once in site burry it like 4 inches in the dirt. that should work perfectly "temporarily". :2cents:

EDIT: or a rod. that work easier.

I've heard many electricians says that a minimum of two feet is recommended. :mrgreen:

When my meter pole was installed, they had to use copper rod and go down 4' feet. Then they went over another 6' feet and put another copper rod down 4' feet. I asked why two copper rods? They said that one copper rod sometimes isn't enough!

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:01 pm

dieselenthusiast, your completely correct! 4 inches for the chain and maybe 10 inches for the pole is sufficient. remember those copper rods are grounding 100 or 200 amps. the rods must be able to support a main short. meaning a short at the main feed which would be 100 or 200 amps. and sometimes 4 rods isn't enough (company facility).

for Laurens purpose it only needs 15 amps at most. and the likely hood that a short would occur is slim. its also very time consuming to burry the chain or rod. even if he doesn't ground the gfci, the short will still be taken care of (shut off) automatically.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:09 pm

This afternoon I took the tarps off the trailer and there is no water damage!!! :BANANA:

I also put the solar panel out again to see what kind of output I could get from it.

The light was diffuse because of my neighbor's tree, and it was about 4 pm so the sun is low in the sky.

Even in this situation, the panel cranked out more than 34 volts!

The battery, which was at 12.4 volts or so when I started, got up to about 12.7 within an hour or so. It seemed to equalize there, probably because the sun was going down.

Here is the trailer, chilling in the yard with wires from the solar panel. And the Tracer looks happy.

On the subject of the inverter ground:
I tested for continuity and here is what I found.
1) The inverter ground screw is continuous with the ground on the inverter's 3-prong GFCI AC outlet.
2) It is also continuous with the metal inverter case (no surprise there).
3) What was a surprise is that it is continuous with the metal case of the nearby battery charger. It is also continuous with the ground pin on the power inlet on the side of the trailer.
So, what is going on here? The inverter is plugged into one side of the automatic transfer switch, and the battery charger is plugged in on the other side of it, where the shore power comes in from outside. The automatic transfer switch has a common internal grounding block, so regardless of which side the power is coming from, the ground wire is the same.
4) Another interesting connection is that the ground screw on the inverter is continuous with the "neutral" (wide) side of its own power outlet. That means the neutral and the ground wires are tied together inside the inverter.
5) Currently none of the components I've listed above have any continuity with the steel trailer. The electrical system (both AC & DC) is floating.
If I do ground the AC inverter to the trailer chassis as the instructions say to do, I should probably ground an outlet on the other side of the transfer switch also. I am not yet convinced I should have a cable from the battery's negative post to the trailer frame, as the AC and DC systems are separate. If there is an AC fault and the trailer is energized, the electrons could flow out the tongue, down the metal front support leg, and into the earth. In this case, I would never be running the inverter with the trailer attached to the Jeep and the metal leg not deployed and in contact with the earth.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:43 pm

lauren, im going to rausch on the 17th. I wonder if we could meet up that Sunday if your close by there. you could pick my mind.

M116A3 off-road camper build

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