LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Budget SFA List

yeah it came in today so all next week we will be doing it...i guess i'll start a thread after i get some pics around tuesday...

Maybe , hopefully he is out riding around smiling all the way, but I know he was going to be out of town this weekend I think, hopefully we get some more shots of it soon! :wink:

There were a few posted on the carolina site of the rear started and up on the rack
would I ever :wink:

with hold information from you Jon?

tommudd wrote:

There were a few posted on the carolina site of the rear started and up on the rack
would I ever :wink:

with hold information from you Jon?

Where? What Carolina site?

What would it cost to just get a SFA D30 under the front of my KJ?

Strategy, Only replace what I have to, use what I have.
Assumption. I can keep the transfer case and rear 8.25 axle.

HP Reverse cut D30 from a late 90's XJ with ABS - $800-$1500 built with alloy axles and some upgrades.
ARB for the D30 - $800 (already got one)
Front Coil Over kit $500
New drive shafts $500
4:56 gears front and back $500
Nth degree kit - $3000 (is this the only route, the best route?) how about a custom 4 link system front and back? What has everyone else done?)

Install and fabrication 80 hours at $80 an hour - $6400

Total budget: $13000.00

Compared to about $5000.00 for a 6" IFS lift installed

Does this seem a reasonable estimate?
Am I missing some critical parts?
Does going with an HP D44 up front add to the cost much? (need a new front locker at minimum)

All comments welcome.

All I can say is to anyone looking to do a SFA on the cheap, good luck, and plan for all the little things that will surprise you. I see several things not on the above list and not limited too: Exhaust, steering box, tie rods and drag link, custom pitman arm depening on box, brakelines, rear springs and shocks, power steering lines, custom belly pan, oil to fill everything, brake fluid, nuts, bolts, hardware, etc....... Plus the labor hours everyone is throwing around is a great number for you 3rd of 4th SFA, but plan on more for your first SFA, trust me there will be lots of head scratching going on most all of it in the front of the KJ.

Then when it's done, will it handle correctly and safely? Can the suspension cycle without hitting the exhaust, trac bar or steering? Once you get an axle in the front, you will see how little space there is unless you raise the Jeep! Another note reading all of the posts about SFA's........ Ever driven a Jeep with long arms in the front and short arms in the back? Yes it'll be cheap, but what happens when it doesn't handle correctly? How about roll centers, vehicle dynamics, brake bias, spring rates, and anti-squat? Please consider these items when building a rig from scratch. I've driven some pretty scary rides over the years and it ain't fun. Perfect way to ruin a perfectly good rig.

I commend anyone who is taking on this project! I would love to see more SFA KJ's running around, I really would

But I want to see safe rigs, that are built safe and handle correctly!

Wally, Seth, and JJ have caught a lot of crap over how much they spent on their conversions, and I've talked to some future SFA owners who said they and we were crazy for building their rigs they way we did, but.........

I stand behind these rigs with my reputation, and these rigs are built safe, they handle correctly, and they are built right. NO short cuts were taken at the expense of safety, or being cheap! These KJ's will give any Jeep a run for their money in the handling and safety department.

Just please use your heads, build safe rigs, don't take short cuts, and lets get some more SFA's wheeling around

I await the pictures and details!!!! Let's see what everyone can do!

macgyver wrote:

I await the pictures and details!!!! Let's see what everyone can do!

You brought up some good points,I bet a front long arm and rear short arm would be scary driving.

I can relate to Wally,JJ,and Seth about being frowned on about the cost of doing a SFA on a KJ,but why not?

Oh and thank you for many ideas to making a very good working SFA coversion to work off of and modify to use other axles(with there own little challanges :evil:

),I to hope to see many more SFA KJ's in the next few years and hopefully the 1st SFA KK will not be far in the distant future.

tjkj2002 wrote:

macgyver wrote:

I await the pictures and details!!!! Let's see what everyone can do!

),I to hope to see many more SFA KJ's in the next few years and hopefully the 1st SFA KK will not be far in the distant future.

Any time, help is no problem!!!!!!!! You guys think a SFA KJ can get expensive you should see some of the Wranglers we've built

Shoot we've built Jeeps with $14,000 just in axles alone. Not to mention some Walker Evans beadlocks with 37" Krawlers, about $3,700 mounted and balanced, Atlas t-case around $2,400 not including labor, AEV high line kit $1,800 before paint, $4,000 supension system, etc...... all this on an already $28,000 Jeep, and it adds up fast! SFA KJ's start looking cheap!

Author:	ohv_kj [ Fri May 09, 2008 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:
yeah it came in today so all next week we will be doing it...i guess i'll start a thread after i get some pics around tuesday...

Author:	jerbacher [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:22 am ]
Post subject:
ohv_kj wrote: yeah it came in today so all next week we will be doing it...i guess i'll start a thread after i get some pics around tuesday... update?

Author:	tommudd [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:26 am ]
Post subject:
Maybe , hopefully he is out riding around smiling all the way, but I know he was going to be out of town this weekend I think, hopefully we get some more shots of it soon!

Author:	jerbacher [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:29 am ]
Post subject:
tommudd wrote: Maybe , hopefully he is out riding around smiling all the way, but I know he was going to be out of town this weekend I think, hopefully we get some more shots of it soon! more shots? have there been some? i dont even know if its done or not. you have some info you're holding from me tom??!!

Author:	tommudd [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:31 am ]
Post subject:
There were a few posted on the carolina site of the rear started and up on the rack would I ever with hold information from you Jon?

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Author:	JJsTJ [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:51 am ]
Post subject:
tommudd wrote: There were a few posted on the carolina site of the rear started and up on the rack would I ever with hold information from you Jon? Where? What Carolina site?

Author:	jerbacher [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:54 am ]
Post subject:
JJsKJ wrote: tommudd wrote: There were a few posted on the carolina site of the rear started and up on the rack would I ever with hold information from you Jon? Where? What Carolina site? The LOST Carolina page. I was just on there. Basically just shows the rear built up. Its the front I'm really interested in!!

Author:	tommudd [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:57 am ]
Post subject:
and even those shots doesn't show tha long arm or anything just getting started shots really

Author:	InCommando [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Is holding onto ABS really worth that much? It would seem like the situations that you are building the SFA for are the ones when ABS wouldn't funtion, anyway? Feel free to correct me. I am no ABS fan and specifically sought out a KJ without ABS. I know not many here keep track of the annual Michigan State Police vehicle testing, but that has been a real eye-opener for me for a decade or so regarding ABS. It is great for the " oh crap something is happening & all I think to do is jam on the brakes as hard as I can" crowd, but really exacts a performance price when you know how to use your rig. Hopefully anyone going to this extent would know how to use their rig. Perhaps some of the newer, more complex set-ups are better. And the combo of ABS & tractional control seems to add ability up until the point you start modifying stuff. For example: I don't think you can use lockers with this combo?

Author:	macgyver [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Budget SFA List
bugnout wrote: What would it cost to just get a SFA D30 under the front of my KJ? Strategy, Only replace what I have to, use what I have. Assumption. I can keep the transfer case and rear 8.25 axle. HP Reverse cut D30 from a late 90's XJ with ABS - $800-$1500 built with alloy axles and some upgrades. ARB for the D30 - $800 (already got one) Front Coil Over kit $500 New drive shafts $500 4:56 gears front and back $500 Nth degree kit - $3000 (is this the only route, the best route?) how about a custom 4 link system front and back? What has everyone else done?) Install and fabrication 80 hours at $80 an hour - $6400 Total budget: $13000.00 Compared to about $5000.00 for a 6" IFS lift installed Does this seem a reasonable estimate? Am I missing some critical parts? Does going with an HP D44 up front add to the cost much? (need a new front locker at minimum) All comments welcome. All I can say is to anyone looking to do a SFA on the cheap, good luck, and plan for all the little things that will surprise you. I see several things not on the above list and not limited too: Exhaust, steering box, tie rods and drag link, custom pitman arm depening on box, brakelines, rear springs and shocks, power steering lines, custom belly pan, oil to fill everything, brake fluid, nuts, bolts, hardware, etc....... And I almost forgot, sway bars front and rear Plus the labor hours everyone is throwing around is a great number for you 3rd of 4th SFA, but plan on more for your first SFA, trust me there will be lots of head scratching going on most all of it in the front of the KJ. Then when it's done, will it handle correctly and safely? Can the suspension cycle without hitting the exhaust, trac bar or steering? Once you get an axle in the front, you will see how little space there is unless you raise the Jeep! Another note reading all of the posts about SFA's........ Ever driven a Jeep with long arms in the front and short arms in the back? Yes it'll be cheap, but what happens when it doesn't handle correctly? How about roll centers, vehicle dynamics, brake bias, spring rates, and anti-squat? Please consider these items when building a rig from scratch. I've driven some pretty scary rides over the years and it ain't fun. Perfect way to ruin a perfectly good rig. I commend anyone who is taking on this project! I would love to see more SFA KJ's running around, I really would But I want to see safe rigs, that are built safe and handle correctly! Wally, Seth, and JJ have caught a lot of crap over how much they spent on their conversions, and I've talked to some future SFA owners who said they and we were crazy for building their rigs they way we did, but......... I stand behind these rigs with my reputation, and these rigs are built safe, they handle correctly, and they are built right. NO short cuts were taken at the expense of safety, or being cheap! These KJ's will give any Jeep a run for their money in the handling and safety department. Just please use your heads, build safe rigs, don't take short cuts, and lets get some more SFA's wheeling around I await the pictures and details!!!! Let's see what everyone can do!

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Budget SFA List
macgyver wrote: All I can say is to anyone looking to do a SFA on the cheap, good luck, and plan for all the little things that will surprise you. I see several things not on the above list and not limited too: Exhaust, steering box, tie rods and drag link, custom pitman arm depening on box, brakelines, rear springs and shocks, power steering lines, custom belly pan, oil to fill everything, brake fluid, nuts, bolts, hardware, etc....... Plus the labor hours everyone is throwing around is a great number for you 3rd of 4th SFA, but plan on more for your first SFA, trust me there will be lots of head scratching going on most all of it in the front of the KJ. Then when it's done, will it handle correctly and safely? Can the suspension cycle without hitting the exhaust, trac bar or steering? Once you get an axle in the front, you will see how little space there is unless you raise the Jeep! Another note reading all of the posts about SFA's........ Ever driven a Jeep with long arms in the front and short arms in the back? Yes it'll be cheap, but what happens when it doesn't handle correctly? How about roll centers, vehicle dynamics, brake bias, spring rates, and anti-squat? Please consider these items when building a rig from scratch. I've driven some pretty scary rides over the years and it ain't fun. Perfect way to ruin a perfectly good rig. I commend anyone who is taking on this project! I would love to see more SFA KJ's running around, I really would But I want to see safe rigs, that are built safe and handle correctly! Wally, Seth, and JJ have caught a lot of crap over how much they spent on their conversions, and I've talked to some future SFA owners who said they and we were crazy for building their rigs they way we did, but......... I stand behind these rigs with my reputation, and these rigs are built safe, they handle correctly, and they are built right. NO short cuts were taken at the expense of safety, or being cheap! These KJ's will give any Jeep a run for their money in the handling and safety department. Just please use your heads, build safe rigs, don't take short cuts, and lets get some more SFA's wheeling around I await the pictures and details!!!! Let's see what everyone can do! You brought up some good points,I bet a front long arm and rear short arm would be scary driving. I can relate to Wally,JJ,and Seth about being frowned on about the cost of doing a SFA on a KJ,but why not? Oh and thank you for many ideas to making a very good working SFA coversion to work off of and modify to use other axles(with there own little challanges ),I to hope to see many more SFA KJ's in the next few years and hopefully the 1st SFA KK will not be far in the distant future.

Author:	macgyver [ Fri May 16, 2008 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Budget SFA List
tjkj2002 wrote: macgyver wrote: All I can say is to anyone looking to do a SFA on the cheap, good luck, and plan for all the little things that will surprise you. I see several things not on the above list and not limited too: Exhaust, steering box, tie rods and drag link, custom pitman arm depening on box, brakelines, rear springs and shocks, power steering lines, custom belly pan, oil to fill everything, brake fluid, nuts, bolts, hardware, etc....... Plus the labor hours everyone is throwing around is a great number for you 3rd of 4th SFA, but plan on more for your first SFA, trust me there will be lots of head scratching going on most all of it in the front of the KJ. Then when it's done, will it handle correctly and safely? Can the suspension cycle without hitting the exhaust, trac bar or steering? Once you get an axle in the front, you will see how little space there is unless you raise the Jeep! Another note reading all of the posts about SFA's........ Ever driven a Jeep with long arms in the front and short arms in the back? Yes it'll be cheap, but what happens when it doesn't handle correctly? How about roll centers, vehicle dynamics, brake bias, spring rates, and anti-squat? Please consider these items when building a rig from scratch. I've driven some pretty scary rides over the years and it ain't fun. Perfect way to ruin a perfectly good rig. I commend anyone who is taking on this project! I would love to see more SFA KJ's running around, I really would But I want to see safe rigs, that are built safe and handle correctly! Wally, Seth, and JJ have caught a lot of crap over how much they spent on their conversions, and I've talked to some future SFA owners who said they and we were crazy for building their rigs they way we did, but......... I stand behind these rigs with my reputation, and these rigs are built safe, they handle correctly, and they are built right. NO short cuts were taken at the expense of safety, or being cheap! These KJ's will give any Jeep a run for their money in the handling and safety department. Just please use your heads, build safe rigs, don't take short cuts, and lets get some more SFA's wheeling around I await the pictures and details!!!! Let's see what everyone can do! You brought up some good points,I bet a front long arm and rear short arm would be scary driving. I can relate to Wally,JJ,and Seth about being frowned on about the cost of doing a SFA on a KJ,but why not? Oh and thank you for many ideas to making a very good working SFA coversion to work off of and modify to use other axles(with there own little challanges ),I to hope to see many more SFA KJ's in the next few years and hopefully the 1st SFA KK will not be far in the distant future. Any time, help is no problem!!!!!!!! You guys think a SFA KJ can get expensive you should see some of the Wranglers we've built Shoot we've built Jeeps with $14,000 just in axles alone. Not to mention some Walker Evans beadlocks with 37" Krawlers, about $3,700 mounted and balanced, Atlas t-case around $2,400 not including labor, AEV high line kit $1,800 before paint, $4,000 supension system, etc...... all this on an already $28,000 Jeep, and it adds up fast! SFA KJ's start looking cheap!

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Fri May 16, 2008 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Budget SFA List
macgyver wrote: tjkj2002 wrote: macgyver wrote: All I can say is to anyone looking to do a SFA on the cheap, good luck, and plan for all the little things that will surprise you. I see several things not on the above list and not limited too: Exhaust, steering box, tie rods and drag link, custom pitman arm depening on box, brakelines, rear springs and shocks, power steering lines, custom belly pan, oil to fill everything, brake fluid, nuts, bolts, hardware, etc....... Plus the labor hours everyone is throwing around is a great number for you 3rd of 4th SFA, but plan on more for your first SFA, trust me there will be lots of head scratching going on most all of it in the front of the KJ. Then when it's done, will it handle correctly and safely? Can the suspension cycle without hitting the exhaust, trac bar or steering? Once you get an axle in the front, you will see how little space there is unless you raise the Jeep! Another note reading all of the posts about SFA's........ Ever driven a Jeep with long arms in the front and short arms in the back? Yes it'll be cheap, but what happens when it doesn't handle correctly? How about roll centers, vehicle dynamics, brake bias, spring rates, and anti-squat? Please consider these items when building a rig from scratch. I've driven some pretty scary rides over the years and it ain't fun. Perfect way to ruin a perfectly good rig. I commend anyone who is taking on this project! I would love to see more SFA KJ's running around, I really would But I want to see safe rigs, that are built safe and handle correctly! Wally, Seth, and JJ have caught a lot of crap over how much they spent on their conversions, and I've talked to some future SFA owners who said they and we were crazy for building their rigs they way we did, but......... I stand behind these rigs with my reputation, and these rigs are built safe, they handle correctly, and they are built right. NO short cuts were taken at the expense of safety, or being cheap! These KJ's will give any Jeep a run for their money in the handling and safety department. Just please use your heads, build safe rigs, don't take short cuts, and lets get some more SFA's wheeling around I await the pictures and details!!!! Let's see what everyone can do! You brought up some good points,I bet a front long arm and rear short arm would be scary driving. I can relate to Wally,JJ,and Seth about being frowned on about the cost of doing a SFA on a KJ,but why not? Oh and thank you for many ideas to making a very good working SFA coversion to work off of and modify to use other axles(with there own little challanges ),I to hope to see many more SFA KJ's in the next few years and hopefully the 1st SFA KK will not be far in the distant future. Any time, help is no problem!!!!!!!! You guys think a SFA KJ can get expensive you should see some of the Wranglers we've built Shoot we've built Jeeps with $14,000 just in axles alone. Not to mention some Walker Evans beadlocks with 37" Krawlers, about $3,700 mounted and balanced, Atlas t-case around $2,400 not including labor, AEV high line kit $1,800 before paint, $4,000 supension system, etc...... all this on an already $28,000 Jeep, and it adds up fast! SFA KJ's start looking cheap! It sure does,kinda makes my $15,000 in parts(so far) look like nothing.You sure can spend some cash building just about anything and most don't know how much it really costs to build even a moderate Jeep,most think $1000 for a lift and $400 for UCA's is way to much.

Author:	Inc [ Sat May 17, 2008 1:37 am ]
Post subject:
It is all relative for the intended use. I don't intend to do any hard core rock crawling, so for me a $15,000 SFA is out of the question. An absolute joke. But if you intend on building a truly capable rock crawling trail rig that can go almost anywhere you want it to, then the $15,000 isn't too much at all. I had my "dream" TJ buildup list and it was at like $32,000 after buying a $10,000 used jeep. I really wanted to be able to go anywhere. Then I got married, bought a house and priorities changed. Now my Frankenlifted KJ with 31s is perfect. I can still go plenty of places a stock KJ wouldn't want to tread, and I can use it for my DD. I am not sure my "dream" TJ with 37" Iroks and beadlocks would be a good DD. So if you guys wanna put $$$ into a real, and I mean REAL, trail jeep, go for it. It is awesome! For pretty much the rest of us though, $1000 for a lift and $400 for UCA is a lot of money to put into an occasional trail rig that us weekend warriors use. To each his own, as long as it says jeep on it!

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Author:	Sport [ Tue May 20, 2008 9:08 am ]
Post subject:
I have compared the KJ to all other jeeps and I can't see myself trading it in just for something with an SA. Too many other reasons to keep it. I plan on wheeling the KJ soon, pretty much after I get skids. for my own use I don't see a reason to swap in an SA, but that might all change after I have actually gotten out there an tested the KJ. I figure light to moderate wheeling until it is paid off then decide whether to SAS, buy a JK or whatever else might be out there 4 years from now. Or if wheeling really aint my thing then she is fine just the way she is.