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Taking the Plunge
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=20824		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Topper 1 [ Fri May 18, 2007 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Taking the Plunge
I've decided to do the SFA on my Libby. It seems All Js is the way to go. I'd like to start the work in July (moving to Cali in June). For the select few who've made the investment, is there any wisdom or lesson's learned advice you'd like to pass along? Thanks!

-jim
Author:  allyrand [ Fri May 18, 2007 1:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Congrats on making that decision, I would just talk to Quinn at All Js when you get here and let him know what you want your KJ to be able to do, he will guide you in the right direction with what parts to use and where to get them, there are many differnt ways to set your KJ up with an SFA and he won't steer you wrong. Also when you get here,get in touch with myself or jjskj and we can hook you up with Lost KJ West, it would be great to finally have a transplant from somewhere else instead of our members leaving the state...again very exciting about the SFA...you will love it
Author:  JJsTJ [ Fri May 18, 2007 3:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Call Quinn and let him know in advance of your interest. There is a possibility of some Good changes/ improvements coming from the next few that decide to do the SFA. I am hoping we can somehow get 4-5 people to commit to doing it.

I just picked up a ARB/Warn Super 30 HPD30 that will be seeing some action under my XJ for a while but is earmarked for the KJ eventually. I am hoping to get started on my SFA KJ in early 08.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri May 18, 2007 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good luck.My Rock Trac should here in 3-4 weeks and then installed so I can figure out the speedo issue(I'm not going to retain the 8.25 in the rear) then get the axles done and cut the KJ up! Do you have any ideas on the axles you want to run yet?
Author:  Topper 1 [ Fri May 18, 2007 5:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
For robustness, I was thinking D44 front and rear for now. May consider a custom turnkey set up from Currie Enterprises. I know the other LOST SFA conversions feature relatively high lift and 33" tires. I'm looking to limit the suspension lift to 4 - 4.5 inches and modifying the fender wells and flares to accommodate 35" tires (think Jeep Liberator concept). I want to keep the C.G. as low as possible to maximize stability in tippy/steep situations.
Author:  JJsTJ [ Fri May 18, 2007 6:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Topper 1 wrote:
For robustness, I was thinking D44 front and rear for now. May consider a custom turnkey set up from Currie Enterprises. I know the other LOST SFA conversions feature relatively high lift and 33" tires. I'm looking to limit the suspension lift to 4 - 4.5 inches and modifying the fender wells and flares to accommodate 35" tires (think Jeep Liberator concept). I want to keep the C.G. as low as possible to maximize stability in tippy/steep situations.


I will be happy to go 8" (others that have been done are about 10") and just run 32's (33's if I can get them to stuff enough) The rear wheelwell is pretty tight w/ 33's though. I am w/ you on the LCG though and that is why I am thinking a smaller lift and tires.

Were there ever any pics of the Liberator stuffing the tires into the wheelwells? I know they wheeled it some recently.
Author:  Topper 1 [ Fri May 18, 2007 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
JJsKJ wrote:
Topper 1 wrote:

Were there ever any pics of the Liberator stuffing the tires into the wheelwells? I know they wheeled it some recently.


Image

Image
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri May 18, 2007 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah they opened up those wheel wells by at least 2"-3",making those custom flares would be a pain for the front and rear.
Author:  Topper 1 [ Fri May 18, 2007 6:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
making those custom flares would be a pain for the front and rear.


Yeah, the Chrysler Skunkworks crew have access to some amazing fabrication capabilites. I need to find a place that can make custom flares like these. Anyone out there know of a shop that does this?
Author:  ARBSeth [ Fri May 18, 2007 7:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just ordered 35's for mine. They fit, but I may need some bigger bumpstops to keep the flares on.
More to follow...
Author:  Topper 1 [ Fri May 18, 2007 10:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Seth -- With your industry connections, have you looked into enlarging the fender wells and fabbing some some custom flares? I'd like to fit 35's without having to go to extreme lift heights.
Author:  gone_jeepin [ Fri May 18, 2007 11:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Maybe a dumb idea but, why not just move the Flairs up? take the flares off cut the fenders and punch the holes for the flares higher on the body wouldn't that give a little more clearance? Just a thought, like i said maybe be stupid. Or another idea that may give a little more clearance is cutting all the flares something like this....

Image
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri May 18, 2007 11:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's not the height of the flare/wheel well it's the width that needs to be increased to allow for 35" tires to stuff without a ungodly high lift.
Author:  Rock Lizard [ Sat May 19, 2007 12:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Correct, trimming the top of the wheel wells is unnecessary because uptravel is controlled by bumpstops. The flares aren't the issue either. It's all that sheet metal behind the flares that close off the wheel wells so much. You would need to trim the front and rear parts of each wheel well to give enough clearance. I haven't spent much time in the front end with a flare off, but the rear has enough room to do some trimming, folding, and welding to clear up plenty of room for probably even 37's, without it being a major surgery.
Author:  Topper 1 [ Sat May 19, 2007 12:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Excellent points Marty. I agree the rear should be pretty straight forward to widen the wheel arch. The Liberator concept vehicle moved the rear axle aft 3 inches and if you look at the photos earler in the thread, you can see that the height of the wheel well archand flare has not changed, but that the rearmost part of the wheel opening and flare have ben extended back (note distance between flare and tail light lens as compared to stock) to accommodate the bigger tire. To fab that bigger flare that must cover the bigger well, I'm guessing they created a digital model by scaling the stock dimensions and CNC'd the molds for new flare. Up front, I assume the well enlargement results in cutting the area under the driver's left foot and welding in a closure that gives more clearance. Since I've decided to do the SFA, I'm guessing some gain can be achieved by moving the front axle forward slightly in addition to re-contouring the aft wall.

I'm certainly not an expert in this area, so my intent here was to stimulate some dialog and pick the brains of the real experts among you.
Author:  spencevans [ Sat May 19, 2007 12:44 am ]
Post subject: 
I just don't see the big issue with the fender flare issue. Logically the only problem area is the back rear fender flare on the rear qurter panel. The front can be solved by moving the axle forward with the SFA and getting an aftermarket front bumper. If you solve that rear quarter panel issue then you can slide the rear axle back a few inches. A body shop should be able to fix the problem for $1500-$2000. Then she would look like the Liberator.
Author:  gone_jeepin [ Sat May 19, 2007 12:46 am ]
Post subject: 
But can you move the front axle far enough forward to fit 35s under 4-4.5in. of lift, even with an aftermarket bumper I don't forsee you being able to move it far enough, IMO it will either rub the bumper or still catch the back of the wheel well.

Do any of you know where to get something similar to a CAD model of the front clip of the KJ that would prolly make this a little easier to evaluate. I know the dealership has something close on their computers since I had to go there the other day to get all the rivets for the front wheel well and fender flare cause I ripped mine off hitting a ditch and small embankment.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sat May 19, 2007 6:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Topper 1 wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
making those custom flares would be a pain for the front and rear.


Yeah, the Chrysler Skunkworks crew have access to some amazing fabrication capabilites. I need to find a place that can make custom flares like these. Anyone out there know of a shop that does this?
I can help in that area,it's not going to be cheap though.I worked at a bodyshop and have repaired many plastic bumbers,spoilers,and flares to there original strength and shape and no appearece that they ever where repaired(some where in 2 or 3 pieces).Here's the deal,this will only work for the smooth painted flares for a limited KJ,I would need 2 of each flare that you want to extend(painted or not),$100 for each flare(4 flares extended=$400),cost of the supplies needed to to the job,and shipping both way's.They have repair expoxy for each type of plastic used on vehicles,it is not cheap though,about $80-$120 per 6 oz tube(depending on the plastic type),primer and automotive grade sand paper are the supplies needed(about $250-$300).It would take about 3-4 hours per flare to get them extended and ready for paint(painting is on you),so $100 per flare is a steal for labor.Also any body mods is also on you unless you want to bring your KJ to CO.I can extend them 1"-6",it's up to you and will take about 2 weeks to do(I have a full time job to).Just thought I would offer since many bodyshops will either way overcharge for this type of work or not do it at all.
Author:  Topper 1 [ Sat May 19, 2007 7:31 am ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 -- I'll be in COS for Memorial Day weekend (on my way to Cali). Let's talk then -- PM me with your phone number. I like your idea of extending the flare and I've thought about taking that approach, however, the flare needs to be wider as well to cover 315-75-16 MTRs. My brain keeps coming back to creating a 3-D solid model of the current flares (using a laser tracker if I can't locate an existing CAD file somewhere), manipulating the model to make the flare wider and longer, CNC a set of molds from which I can either lay up carbon or glass cloth/resin. There may even be a way to CNC flares directly, but I don't know what materials might be compatible with this method.

Heather at All J had an interesting idea -- Poison Spyder Customs makes TJ "Crusher Flares" https://www.spydercustoms.com/index2.php. Perhaps a set of of flares using this idea can be made for the KJ? I don't know how feasible this would be in terms of attachment to the body, but someone with tube-bending/sheet metal fabrication experience could easily assess this I'm sure. The idea of having flares that look great AND can take a beating is pretty appealing.

BTW, when I talked to Heather at All J last night, we tentatively set a start date of 23 July for the SFA conversion. Quinn and I are going to start the process of laying out the parts list, so they can get the bulk of the hardware ordered. Now to find a vehicle to drive while the KJ's in surgery for two months.......
Author:  JJsTJ [ Sat May 19, 2007 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 
So how far back can you move the rear axle before the gas tank location becomes a problem? I know the tank location becomes a problem when extending the wheelbase on TJ's.

Last I looked at Wallys you could see very little space back there to run the track bar style rear suspension they used.
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