Solid with ESP?

offroadohio · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:08 pm

Ok, I'm not really sure 100% how the ESP works, but I assume its just through the anti lock brake system?

If I was to use an axle from a vehicle with front ABS, could I make the ESP still work, or is it more detailed than that?

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:47 pm

the only thing i've heard about it is that if you use axles out of a JK.. (JK rubi with lockers already

) you could keep the ESP.. otherwise i think it'll be lost. unless there is some way to keep the breaks from the KJ. hummm good question

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:10 pm

Yep you'd have to use the JK D44's(front and rear) to be able to keep ABS and ESP,otherwise you will lose both but that is not a bad idea since they are more of a headache then anything else.

offroadohio · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:38 pm

From my understanding, the ABS ha snothing to do with the brake system on the axle end of things. Only differance between abs and non abs axles is the ABS ring, and the sensor.
The EPS runs via the same ring and sensor.

All actions of the ABs/EPS is controlled with the control module thatall the brake lines run into after leaving the master cylinder.

I have spliced wires on ABS systems before when they got torn off on the trail.

If the ABS wires comming from the axle could be spliced into a solid axle that also has ABS, why would it not work?

Maybe there is something I am not understanding???

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:20 pm

offroadohio wrote:

From my understanding, the ABS ha snothing to do with the brake system on the axle end of things. Only differance between abs and non abs axles is the ABS ring, and the sensor.
The EPS runs via the same ring and sensor.

All actions of the ABs/EPS is controlled with the control module thatall the brake lines run into after leaving the master cylinder.

I have spliced wires on ABS systems before when they got torn off on the trail.

If the ABS wires comming from the axle could be spliced into a solid axle that also has ABS, why would it not work?

Maybe there is something I am not understanding???

ABS has everything to do with the axle since it houses the tone ring and sensor that sends all the info to the ABS control module,if the axle is not setup for ABS your going to lose it and ESP works off the same sensors and many more around the vehicle.

You could use stock TJ axles if the TJ had ABS but then that would leave you unable to upgrade the axles to handle bigger tires(mostly the LPD30 front,your stuck with the stock 27-spline axles and the LP D30 is very weak axle) and that would be pointless in my opion and defeats the purpose running weak axles if your going to spend the money to SFA a KJ.There are not many axles that are suitable(ie-worth a darn) for a SFA swap that has the provisions for ABS.

99% of the time when you mod as far as a SFA swap ABS is the last thing you are worrying about and trying to save,that's just life since the axles and parts needed to handle bigger tires and offroad abuse just don't come with ABS provisions.

Oh and to keep ABS and ESP you will need the ABS sensors mounted on all 4 corners on both axles.

offroadohio · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:56 pm

I'm pretty sure you just said what I said. There is no differance in the brake system of the axle itself.. (caliper, rotor ect) Only the fact that there is a ABS ring on the axle shaft, and a sensor with a wire running to the module. So if I was to put d30 with ABS from an xj, or grand cherokee I could infact keep the esp working.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:29 pm

offroadohio wrote:

I'm pretty sure you just said what I said. There is no differance in the brake system of the axle itself.. (caliper, rotor ect) Only the fact that there is a ABS ring on the axle shaft, and a sensor with a wire running to the module. So if I was to put d30 with ABS from an xj, or grand cherokee I could infact keep the esp working.

But you'd not be able to upgrade the front axle and keep the ABS feature,plus those are all low pinion D30's and are rather weak compared to a high pinion D30(which is about the same strength as a D44).You'd have to keep your rear axle also,then you really are not gaining anything by doing a SFA swap but hey it's your money I'm just stating trying to keep ABS and ESP will lead to big disapointments when trying mod a Jeep for offroading,lots of breaking of parts since you can't upgrade due to trying to keep ABS and ESP.

offroadohio · **Posted:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:46 am

My question wasnt wether or not putting a solid 30 under the liberty made sense, the question was could the ESP be kept if I used a solid axle with ABS.

The 30 can handle 35's which is more than our IFS is able to accomodate. I can put a solid 30 under there for less than the cost of a frankenlift. So it makes sense to me.

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:36 am

offroadohio wrote:

My question wasnt wether or not putting a solid 30 under the liberty made sense, the question was could the ESP be kept if I used a solid axle with ABS.

The 30 can handle 35's which is more than our IFS is able to accomodate. I can put a solid 30 under there for less than the cost of a frankenlift. So it makes sense to me.

For under a 1000.?? wow would like to see that, including everything? :shock:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:10 pm

offroadohio wrote:

The 30 can handle 35's which is more than our IFS is able to accomodate. I can put a solid 30 under there for less than the cost of a frankenlift. So it makes sense to me.

Yes the HPD30 can handle 35" tires,but it will not live long with the stock 27-spline axles,you'd want to upgrade to the 30-spline axles and that requires a aftermarket unit bearing which does not have the ABS provisions,so you would lose ABS and ESP anyway.

Oh and there is no way you'd put a HPD30 under the KJ for less then what a Frankinlift costs,even with the JBA UCA's added in also.

HPD30-used and complete is about $250 for a stock one
Control arms(need to be the same for F/R)-about $800 with ends for homemade ones
Rear axle brackets since you need to keep short arm/short arm or long arm/long arm-$400
Steering mods-at least $500 if using all used
SYE for t-case and correct front yoke-$500
F/R driveshafts-$500-$1000
Labor-$1000-$7500

and then there's all the little stuff that adds up fast.[/quote]

offroadohio · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:04 am

It guess people dont have the ability to make things themselves. I have a full machine shop at my disposal aswell as a racecar shop between the two I can build just about anything needed. Its easier to buy a few things like the SYE (they can be had for $200-250 now adays)

I can pick up complete cherokee's and grand cherokee's for less than $500 all day long, pull the parts I need sell some and scrap the rest and break pretty even, if nto making money off of it and gaining parts.

I can setup my own gears and I get a nice discount at 4wheelparts so my gears will cost next to nothing. I can build my own driveshafts, and pay the local shop $20 pershaft to balance them.

I wouldnt NEED to upgrade the axles at all. We blow 30 gears more often than shafts. And that isnt very often when they are run on welded carriers or arb's where you get total locking action.

There would be no labor cost becuase I would do it myself.

And I have found through research the xj/tj/zj ABS tone ring can be modified to work with the kj frequency. In the same fashion as the guys who run 8.8's and keep ABS.

I jeep axles under a chevette for less than 1,000 and that included buildign a custom tube frame for it. I think I can get an hp30 under the kj for less than the cost of a frankenlift.

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:15 am

makes a little difference having a machine shop etc that you can use but still some things just cost some bucks even at that.

Tom

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:17 pm

offroadohio wrote:

It guess people dont have the ability to make things themselves. I have a full machine shop at my disposal aswell as a racecar shop between the two I can build just about anything needed. Its easier to buy a few things like the SYE (they can be had for $200-250 now adays)

I can pick up complete cherokee's and grand cherokee's for less than $500 all day long, pull the parts I need sell some and scrap the rest and break pretty even, if nto making money off of it and gaining parts.

I can setup my own gears and I get a nice discount at 4wheelparts so my gears will cost next to nothing. I can build my own driveshafts, and pay the local shop $20 pershaft to balance them.

I wouldnt NEED to upgrade the axles at all. We blow 30 gears more often than shafts. And that isnt very often when they are run on welded carriers or arb's where you get total locking action.

There would be no labor cost becuase I would do it myself.

And I have found through research the xj/tj/zj ABS tone ring can be modified to work with the kj frequency. In the same fashion as the guys who run 8.8's and keep ABS.

I jeep axles under a chevette for less than 1,000 and that included buildign a custom tube frame for it. I think I can get an hp30 under the kj for less than the cost of a frankenlift.

if you end up doing this.. and it works... it would be well worth me paying you to do mine

... dont know w here your at in ohio but it cant be too far away.if your can do it to yoru own for less than a frankenlift.. i'll pay you 3 times that amount to do mine!

03CDKJ · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:05 pm

the real question is.... Will the wife let you!? :wink:

Very cool Donnie!

How ya been, Looks like you have a little project in the future. Will be cool, can't wait to see some pics.

Chris

03CDKJ · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:07 pm

oh and 2006KJ I get dibs on the 2nd Donnie SFA, I met him first!

chris

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:18 pm

cdiekhans wrote:

oh and 2006KJ I get dibs on the 2nd Donnie SFA, I met him first!

chris

ok fair is fair.. but i call 3rd! atleast then he'll have the bugs worked out and mine should go smoothly

... we going to wellsville again this year?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:32 pm

offroadohio wrote:

It guess people dont have the ability to make things themselves. I have a full machine shop at my disposal aswell as a racecar shop between the two I can build just about anything needed. Its easier to buy a few things like the SYE (they can be had for $200-250 now adays)

I can pick up complete cherokee's and grand cherokee's for less than $500 all day long, pull the parts I need sell some and scrap the rest and break pretty even, if nto making money off of it and gaining parts.

I can setup my own gears and I get a nice discount at 4wheelparts so my gears will cost next to nothing. I can build my own driveshafts, and pay the local shop $20 pershaft to balance them.

I wouldnt NEED to upgrade the axles at all. We blow 30 gears more often than shafts. And that isnt very often when they are run on welded carriers or arb's where you get total locking action.

There would be no labor cost becuase I would do it myself.

And I have found through research the xj/tj/zj ABS tone ring can be modified to work with the kj frequency. In the same fashion as the guys who run 8.8's and keep ABS.

I jeep axles under a chevette for less than 1,000 and that included buildign a custom tube frame for it. I think I can get an hp30 under the kj for less than the cost of a frankenlift.

That's great you can do all the work yourself and have access to all that stuff,great way to save money.

But................

I still can not see in anyway that you could put a safe,funtioning SFA under a KJ for under $1000 unless all the parts need your free or darn near.Heck you'd have to be stuck using used parts with no upgrades and still be over $1000 in half the parts alone.The tubing needed for the control arms/track bar and the end joints would be well over $500 alone.

Also just remember that that you may be able to use the tone rings but the TJ/XJ/ZJ use different comunication than the KJ,more so for a '07 KJ.For the rear you would need to keep the 8.25 or modify a Isuzu D44 tone ring in a D44 to make the ABS/ESP and the speedo/ODO work,but you must use the tone ring(installed on the carrier) and OEM sensor since the KJ uses a A/C signal and all other Jeeps use hall effect sensors for the speedo/ODO.

Dje Ryu · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:22 pm

Hmmm, free stuff I've collected so far: HPD30, XJ y-link long-arms from gotreks.com, large pile of scrap steel (mostly marked by grade). Pretty sure I'm forgetting something also.

Oh yeah, I work in a machine shop, too. Considering what I still need though (heim joints to go on the arms, steering box, 4.56 gears, etc...), a grand sounds pretty cheap. Actually a grand won't even buy five 33" MT tires, will it?

offroadohio · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:49 pm

I can get 5 mfg m/t's of the 35" variety for a grand, so yes a grand will buy 5 33's.

I'm not trying to argue how much a SFA swap will cost, I may be low guesstimating the cost but I can do it for well under what most let on that it will cost to do.

I only had $1200 in my yota axle swap in my geo tracker and that was with a logn arm style front setup and 3link rear, clearing 35's

If we wanted to make it really easy on ourselves we could possibly simply buy a 99-04 grand cherokee long arm kit for 2k, remove the rack and install a jeep powersteering box, and add 2 link mounts and a trackbar mount and call it done at a fairly cheap price. That would give you probably around $2500 invested and 6" of lift all the way around. at the cost of two frankenlifts. (double the cost double the lift??)

As I said I'm not 100% sure I can make the ABS/ESP respond before I every wasted my time with the d30 I would reasearch more and make sure it is doable. If its not doable I have no real interest in chopping up the only new thing I have ever owned. I was looking an 04 grnad over today trying to visualy compare the two systems. But I dont have the slightest idea what I am looking at. That was the simple point of this thread to find out if it can be done.

Solid with ESP?

Who is online