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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:58 am 
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I guess my question is why are you using pictures of his Jeep with out getting his premission first?

I have found pictures of my Jeeps on web sites before and it pisses me off to no end, although when people have asked I have yet to say no.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:23 am 
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They aren't HIS pictures, I did the work, I took the pictures of his jeep in front of MY shop, just like i do with every project i do. He was standing there when I took them, he actually was inside the jeep i think when i lifted the tire up with the forklift

In this business its all about pictures and showing what you can do.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:41 am 
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We can agree to disagree, it's his Jeep you are using pictures of his Jeep with out his permission. You are using them to sell your work with out his permission. This is just a bad practice not to ask first. You said you have done the swaps since why not use pictures from customers that are satisfied with the work? It would only make since..............

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:53 am 
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Ok, just to head things off before it gets ugly like the bumper thread, lets keep it civil, or we will shut it down

Thanks,

Nathan

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:56 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:17 am 
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good deal you got on here and explained yourself.
not a bad price for a sas on a liberty. obviously
its not the end all be all of a liberty rock crawler
at that price but it WILL get you started.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:31 pm 
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KJ Taz wrote:
We can agree to disagree, it's his Jeep you are using pictures of his Jeep with out his permission. You are using them to sell your work with out his permission. This is just a bad practice not to ask first. You said you have done the swaps since why not use pictures from customers that are satisfied with the work? It would only make since..............



..Not taking sides here, just playing 'devils advocate', but the photo rights belong to whomever takes them, regardless of who or what appears in them.
..If he had been asked not to photograph the Jeep, then it would be another story.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:36 pm 
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HoppedUpOnGoofballs wrote:
KJ Taz wrote:
We can agree to disagree, it's his Jeep you are using pictures of his Jeep with out his permission. You are using them to sell your work with out his permission. This is just a bad practice not to ask first. You said you have done the swaps since why not use pictures from customers that are satisfied with the work? It would only make since..............



..Not taking sides here, just playing 'devils advocate', but the photo rights belong to whomever takes them, regardless of who or what appears in them.
..If he had been asked not to photograph the Jeep, then it would be another story.


agree with that.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:04 pm 
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photo wise...the last pic is mine he took off here or from another forum...it has a pic of my parents in it...don't like that...all i can say to keep this clean is bredon started out good...and who knows maybe he has learned something from all the mistakes he has done...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:10 pm 
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jasonk wrote:
HoppedUpOnGoofballs wrote:
KJ Taz wrote:
We can agree to disagree, it's his Jeep you are using pictures of his Jeep with out his permission. You are using them to sell your work with out his permission. This is just a bad practice not to ask first. You said you have done the swaps since why not use pictures from customers that are satisfied with the work? It would only make since..............



..Not taking sides here, just playing 'devils advocate', but the photo rights belong to whomever takes them, regardless of who or what appears in them.
..If he had been asked not to photograph the Jeep, then it would be another story.


agree with that.


I do not when its a business making money off the photos, they are using them for advertising, totally different from someone just snapping a picture and posting it on the web.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:38 pm 
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KappableKJ wrote:
Ok I'm the owner of Performance Innovations, the shop that did the solid axle swap on the black liberty in the picture. Someone sent me the link to this
discussion and I figured I might as well join in, there are 2 sides to every story right?
I'm not trying to start internet fights or anything here(i have better things to do than argue on internet forums), I'm just trying to get the facts out and promote my business.
I had done alot of work to the black liberty previously to the SAS, I replaced and regeared the front diff and rearend, added a locker, fabricated some stuff (that he took credit for WTF?)blah blah.

Well next up was the SAS, James wanted to do the swap for as cheap as possible(first problem and I should have turned it away right then), hence all the BUDGET BUILD this and budget that, well I'm sorry to burst everyones' bubble but you get what you pay for. This was the first Liberty Solid axle swap i had done (he was aware of that) and I knew there would be some problems that would need to be fixed after it was all said and done. Another problem we had was the time frame, I underquoted the time and labor for this project, and then to top it off my plasma cutter broke when I first started working on this jeep and it took 2 or 3 weeks to get the parts in to fix it. I had scheduled the time frame to work on this jeep because I was very busy and when it got bumped back 2 weeks it threw all my other projects off and just wasn't a really good experience for both of us. As far as fixing problems that exsisted after I did the work... I ALWAYS fix things that aren't right after doing work, there are always little issues when doing these type of projects(especially when its the first one!) and I am always more than willing to fix them on my dime to make it right.....

But james's situation was a little different, I'll just give one example because I'm not wanting to argue on internet forums, The coilovers were rubbing the side of the body because the upper mounts needed to be moved outboards about a 1/2". He wanted me to do them the morning I was leaving for MY vacation and I said I couldn't because it wouldn't be a 5 min ordeal, So james went on to get all pissy like a little girl and do a big burnout in my parking lot, throwing rocks and gravel all over my other customers cars, that was the last time i heard from him and he decided to go to the other shop in town and pay twice as much for everything to get redone so he could bad mouth me any time he could. Thats cool and all but I am always more than willing to make everything right if I work on it. So lessons learned here: 1 You get what you pay for, and 2 don't be a dickhead. I work on ALOT of high dollar builds and vehicles, most projects are at least 2-6 months and usually $20,000 and up. I did James' for so cheap because it was the first one, a learning experience and I was helping him out because I did a bunch of other work for him before and he was also supposedly going to become a cop in town and everyone likes having a cop friend(i get my share of speeding tickets)

Now on to the details of my service's and the liberty SAS conversion.
I have done another Liberty solid axle swap since the black one and things are fabricated and setup slightly differently in each one. I believe I have a pretty bullet proof plan and setup

Also everyone has bad experiences at shops, or any other type of business, no one is perfect and you can't please everyone. I'm not about to bad mouth the other shop that "re-did" all my work, but he definatly isn't perfect either, NO ONE IS PERFECT!! My shop was a little unorganized a few months ago because it was ME doing everything, I couldn't find any skilled/reliable employees to I was left to do everything so it would get done right. I have finally found a very proficent employee, allowing us to get projects done faster and more efficent. We are now turning and buring the projects out, I really like the Liberty solid front axle conversion because they are unique and you don't see them being wheeled around everywhere like wranglers and every other jeep.




ok the things i highlighted in his text are the things i mention how not to trust this guy...i gave him money for a rear locker but he never sent for it so i used that money that i previously gave him for the, SAS...and BS to the other solid axle swap...he has not done one... i know this for a fact due to i drive by his shop alot....and just to add some more points because i'm getting ticked off by this 22 year old kid...i gave him money to buy hiem joints on one side and rubber on the other...it came out w/ all rubber bushings and they were cut down to fit which lead to metal on metal contact...remember these pics
Image
Image
and the point he made about the coil-overs touching the frame is valid except he knew about it for three weeks and had a few days where he could of fixed it

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:52 pm 
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Getting ready to a SFA conversion myself soon(yes it will be soon) I'd have to say from his explanations you'd never get a SFA KJ done for $6000,it's just a sucker price to get you in the door and comited,he even stated it himself.You'd have to match the F/R suspensions for safe DD driving and regearing lower then 4.10's is a must unless you plan on not going over 32" tires.Then why do a SFA swap and keep 32" tires anyway? Then not adding lockers does not make much sense either as is keeping the rear slipyoke.Oh and the reason the rear driveshaft is "still " long enough is becuase he must not be re-centering the rear diff,rubbing issues right there.

So basically you'll be dumping another $3000-$4000 to get offroad worthy.


Why use a astro van steering box? A '90-'91 F-series steering gear is stronger and requires no adapters to fit the OEM steering shaft.



But hey it's not money,do as you please :wink: .


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:42 am 
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Quote:
Getting ready to a SFA conversion myself soon(yes it will be soon) I'd have to say from his explanations you'd never get a SFA KJ done for $6000,it's just a sucker price to get you in the door and comited,


So you haven't actually done one yet? Then you really don't know whats involved other than reading internet forums and talking to people about it, its alot different when you actuall DO the work and DO one yourself.


My price isn't a "sucker" price, it includes excactly what i said it includes.
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Oh and the reason the rear driveshaft is "still " long enough is becuase he must not be re-centering the rear diff,rubbing issues right there.


I don't know what you are talking about when you say ""recenter" the diff, and I don't think you know either.

If you mean did i correct the pinion angle to compensate for the raised driveline, then I did do that, that was the reason for the lengthened lower control arms, they are meant to rotate the axle so it points more at the rear output.



Quote:
egearing lower then 4.10's is a must unless you plan on not going over 32" tires.Then why do a SFA swap and keep 32" tires anyway? Then not adding lockers does not make much sense either as is keeping the rear slipyoke


Actually 4.10s are pretty much ideal for a automatic transmission, 33" tired vehicle that is to be daily driven and wheeled, it also keeps a decent fuel mileage. If it was a offroad rig only, or a manual transmission i would recommend a little more gearing, but face it most of you spend 98% on the road 2% off

There are also lots of reasons to do a SFA and run 32" or 33" tires, first of all I have replaced quite a few cracked front aluminum housing on stock tire size liberty's, and its runs somewere around $2000 if the gears get chewed up.

I also remember a recall on liberty's where ball joints were breaking allowing the tire to fall off,(doesn't sound very safe) ....another reason to swap out the front suspension for a solid axle.

Quote:
So basically you'll be dumping another $3000-$4000 to get offroad worthy.


You could drop another $50,000 into it if you wanted to, hell i could probably put $100,000 worth of work and parts into your liberty if you wanted me to. But you don't HAVE to, you could spend $6000 with me and get a liberty that is at least 100% stronger than stock, way more easier to fix when the axle breaks, and have a complete solid axle swap completed.

I also have to say, dam my welds look good in person and over the internet
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg23 ... ure008.jpg

I actually took deposit on a swap today, its going to be a little more intensive than any other, its an 05 diesel automatic, and we are probably going to do a rubicon 44 front and super 8.8 rear, complete long arms in the rear, lockers, 35" tires and i'm sure a bunch more once we get into it. And no its not going to cost $6000, because it is heavily upgraded, but i could still do a $6000 one

So i will have some pics soon once i get the jeep shipped here and we start on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:45 am 
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Why use a astro van steering box? A '90-'91 F-series steering gear is stronger and requires no adapters to fit the OEM steering shaft.


The OEM shaft isn't long enough to reach the new steering box location, so i used an adapter because the shaft had to be lengthened.

But i didn't know about that steering box, thats a great suggestion and I will look into when I start on the next conversion, thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:37 am 
KappableKJ wrote:

I also remember a recall on liberty's where ball joints were breaking allowing the tire to fall off,(doesn't sound very safe) ....another reason to swap out the front suspension for a solid axle.


Odd...I don't remember the wheel coming completely off the vehicle.

Too bad I don't have a dime for every solid axle I've seen with floppy balljoints. I'd be able to buy another KJ, and have your $6000 SFA setup done, and afford to have it fixed! I have only seen one KJ in real life with a separated lower balljoint...and I've seen a few XJs/ZJs with them, along with a Dodge, some 3/4 ton fords, and some TTB Fords...

So...you're telling me...you're replacing something that's 7 years old, AT MOST, with something that's at LEAST 7 years old?

HMM...

Now, next question:
Are you including NEW balljoints and U joints in that axle? Or is it "whatever got yanked outta that last rusted-out 250,000 mile old XJ I just parted out and scrapped"?

Your English sucks...which tells me that you don't care about your presentation of yourself on the internet, because you have the "I WURK AWN TRUX, IM NAWT UHN ENGLIZH TEECHUR" mentality.

You're representing your business here...and you need to look as intelligent as you can. And if this is as intelligent as you ever look...

well

Good thing I work on my own junk :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:05 am 
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Quote:
he OEM shaft isn't long enough to reach the new steering box location, so i used an adapter because the shaft had to be lengthened.

But i didn't know about that steering box, thats a great suggestion and I will look into when I start on the next conversion, thanks
Not to argue,but..................

The OEM shaft is and there is 3 SFA KJ's on this board to prove that.

Quote:
I don't know what you are talking about when you say ""recenter" the diff, and I don't think you know either.
I know,why don't you?

Quote:
Actually 4.10s are pretty much ideal for a automatic transmission, 33" tired vehicle that is to be daily driven and wheeled, it also keeps a decent fuel mileage. If it was a offroad rig only, or a manual transmission i would recommend a little more gearing, but face it most of you spend 98% on the road 2% off
I have 4.10's right now and 32" tires and it's no way close to being the correct gear ratio,maybe if you drive downhill all the time.If you did your homework the ideal ratio for a KJ with 32" tires is 4.27's,not 4.10's.That is the #1 reason for my swap,to gear correctly as to stop over stressing my tranny and engine.


Quote:
So you haven't actually done one yet? Then you really don't know whats involved other than reading internet forums and talking to people about it, its alot different when you actuall DO the work and DO one yourself.
I do know what's involved,and I do my own work.Just need the time(to coinside with RL) to get the final measurments to get the custom belly pan made to "DO IT RIGHT" and not just weld stuff to the unibody.

Quote:
I also have to say, dam my welds look good in person and over the internet
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg23 ... ure008.jpg

Sure the welds look good,just to bad the design is not so good.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:30 am 
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KappableKJ wrote:
Quote:
Why use a astro van steering box? A '90-'91 F-series steering gear is stronger and requires no adapters to fit the OEM steering shaft.


The OEM shaft isn't long enough to reach the new steering box location, so i used an adapter because the shaft had to be lengthened.

But i didn't know about that steering box, thats a great suggestion and I will look into when I start on the next conversion, thanks


and i needed a new gear box also the two joints off the steering box to the gear box were binding up...and you still haven't answered my highlighted questions...where is the looker you supposedly put in my jeep and, i really want to see that other straight axle swap liberty you have done...wait i can't because your a lie ... 410's work... but it would be much better w/ 456

this is what i mean...he is not a good business man and really dosent plan for things...i'm not going to post here anymore but last thing is brendon...remember when you told me you "don't plan for anything, you just do it and it turns out that way and works every time." i say BS on you and your wanabe shop...sorry i'm so ugly on the lost forum, i'm just aggravated by this guy...recently he has been on my forum trying to start crap and well he got know where...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:12 am 
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Wow. This is a lot of fun. My poor old SFA KJ is getting a good laugh out of all of this.

So ohv_kj, how about that "budget build" thread now? :wink: :wink:

:lol:


BTW, To KappableKJ. Remember what you said:
Quote:
I'm not trying to start internet fights or anything here(i have better things to do than argue on internet forum.


Regardless of what James did or said, it is You that is under scrutiny for what You are building. It is Your business that people are questioning based on what we have seen of your work on the internet. Calling customers names and questioning others abilities when you don't know them and have not seen Their work on the internet or in person is not going to win you any popularity contests. You are going to need to take the high road, admit your faults and point out that you are doing everything possible to fix any and all problems with your design and work. Doing so will at least maybe give some a better feeling about you.

If you truly don't care what others think then your best bet is to just keep your thoughts to yourself and move on.

You don't have to take my word for this, but I guarantee that you will be locked out of the biggest Liberty forum on the net if you continue the way you are.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:43 pm 
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Why is this guy on here. Does he think he is going to convince us to have him do a conversion for us. This guy needs to fall down on a saw.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Rockjeep wrote:
Why is this guy on here. Does he think he is going to convince us to have him do a conversion for us. This guy needs to fall down on a saw.


Kory, Really don't need any more negative input from the peanut gallery on this.
:roll:

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