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SFA Bracket Kit & Plans Interest Inquiry
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=4050		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  ARBSeth [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  SFA Bracket Kit & Plans Interest Inquiry
Ok guys, the KJ is going under the knife next month. I'm putting a D44 in the Front and probably a full width 1 ton GM 14t in the rear. I'm working with a local Fab company here...some of you XJ converts may have heard of them...THOR offroad.

What we're wondering is this: How much would you be willing to pay for all the bracketry & Plans to do the axle swap? Right now we're thinking D44's and High PInion 30's will work just fine for a 33" tire and a Radius Arm front set up. It will have brackets to do the front and rear arms, steering mods, and plans on how to beef up the frame to take the weight and stress of bigger tires.

This means you buy the axles and make the control arms (not as hard as it sounds) and do all the work to put it together. Fitting driveshafts will be your concern as well, but we'll point you in the right direction. We do the engineering and the fabricating. What's the magic numer you'd pay for this?

FYI: You can pick up a High PInion 30 for under $100 and a 14T for not much more. If you're just running 33's...you can keep the 8.25 and be just fine. We're thinking 35" but Jury is still out. Keeping the 8.25 will also mean fixing the 3rd arm in the back, too...but again, that's the easy part.

I don't want to get slammed here... I know everyone would like something different. What I do want is a realistic figure of what you'd pay for us to do the hard stuff for you. This isn't an ARB thing at all, just myself and a couple buddies tearing my Jeep up and seeing if there is enough interest in it to keep the plans and turn a little extra cash on it.

Aloha!
Author:  zjmikey [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Seth, 14 bolts are cool and all but for any tire smaller than 35" they are a waste of time.

the pumpkin on those things hang down so low (unless you are shaving it)


I would think a pretty good drivetrain setup would be a

HPd30/Dana44 or 8.8 combo providing the 8.8 is wide enough.


the next step up combo would be a

HPD44/ford 9" combo, the 9" is very easy to fab to because the housing is all steel, no cast so it can be welded to very easily.

the big boy setup would be a
HPd60/14 bolt setup, but under 35's is a waste of weight and just too heavy for the unibody I think, not to mention those axle are 67" wide so will probably have to be narrowed.


You can get teh HPD44/9" combo from a Bronco in 59" width, 63" width and 67" width
Author:  JJsTJ [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Interested. Price I would pay would really depend on what other systems come out w/in the next year and what they include. I would guess if it was just a bracketry kit and instructions/plans it could run in the few-several hundred dollar range. You guys should model it on the axles that would more likely get used. HP D30's and D44/9" rears.
Keep us informed on how it is going.
Author:  ARBSeth [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Point taken, man... but it's a good thing I know you or I'd kick your butt for missing the point. The axle type doesn't matter right now...tubes are tubes and as long as we lift it enough for the pumpkin to clear on the top half, it doesn't matter what size the diff is..the 14T is my current plan for more selfish reasons... I may keep the 8.25 for now just to keep costs down and because most of us will probably do that anyway. As for width, we're going 60" (stock). Again, if you want it wider...that's not hard either.

I'm looking for feedback on plans for the bracketry to do the swap in the first place. Making it work for any given axle isn't that much of a stretch...but the average cat can't design a steering/suspension system so we're offering a set of plans and brackets that will allow you to do it without blowing up your cranium.
Author:  ARBSeth [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks JJ

Right now, the immediate idea is to run a HP D30 cause they're cheap to get and keep the 8.25. Put some 4340 shafts w/30 splines in it, and it's good to go for 33" for all but the most extreme wheeling. And I already have 1541H shafts in the rear w/my RD93 so it's 33" ready now. This will keep the cost down and keep it stong enough for us. The 14T idea has already been tossed in the scrap heap...

Does ANYONE think a 35" tire is a good idea for a DD KJ? Jedi did it and it looks awesome, but how many of you would run 35" vs 33" tires?
Author:  JJsTJ [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would most likely only run 33's. Gotta keep some challenge in wheeling right? I also want to keep the height down as the KJ sits roof high now as it is.
I am really glad that others are working on this issue though as the more the merrier in getting a kit or Anything out there.
Author:  zjmikey [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Seth, if you just used a HPDana 30 in the front, do a super 30 kit.

in the rear, you could just get rid of the non adjustable upper wishbone and build a wisbone with an adjustable center link.

I.E. Currie Johnny Joint, RE joint, ETC..

YOu would only have to have lower control arms/upper control arm in the front, it would be pretty easy


Just have a subframe that welded/was captured by the stock crossmember..

Its a pretty basic setup.


I didnt miss the idea and BTW axles have EVERYTHING to do with it, because that would determine the radius's on the brackets for the axles..


as far as the subframe, that could be done.

You may even be able to use something like a Clayton's offroad crossmember/subframe, that has the LCA mounts integrated into it and then just run some RE adjustable Radius arms.. Voila! done..

OR you could do a 3 arm setup in the front for the ultimate...
Author:  krazz1e [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
SFA $2-3k is my range.
Author:  JJsTJ [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
krazz1e wrote:
35" are huge for DD. And for wheeling probably over kill. I would be estatic with 33" or even a full 32". 35" i would only do once this is a dedicated trail rig, and even then it's probably SFA time.

However, with that said being ABLE to run 35" and running 32" in the meantime is a nice thought.

Price not sure at this point but anything over $1500 and I'd probably spend the extra $ and do SFA.


Ummm...He IS talking about SFA. :shock:
Author:  auggy [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Krazz1e if I'm reading this correctly I think he is doing an sfa conversion and that's what they're talking about. I could be wrong though .. I'm an amatuer :oops:
Author:  ARBSeth [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
You're killin me... thou shalt read before one posts! Of course I'm gonna use a Super 30! As for the rest of the set up, we'll see how it comes out...

I know you all have a ton of ideas.... pm me with set up ideas if you'd like, but right now we're just talking about the brackets and plans. How it all comes together remains to be seen, but know that it'll be a nice set up for 33" tires with good street manners and flex to spare. I just need a little feedback from you guys about how much you'd be interested in for the plans and brackets. I'll be writing up something for it later once it's done to give you an idea of time and actual cost once it's done. Keep in mind I can weld, grind, rebuild a diff and do most of my own work. I'll keep a log of the time I spend in case you want someone else to do it for you.

Make sense.?? Mikey, just call me if you wanna kick ideas. Still got my card?
Author:  Tokyojoe [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
ARBSeth,

I'm sure the majority of `04, `05, and `06 owners will not be interested in swapping out their drivetrains and suspensions yet. A small few might. Most takers will come from `02 and `03 owners that may no longer have warranty or payments on their KJ's. I, for one, have no interest in a SFA until it is older, another 3-4 yrs perhaps. I would have an interest in swapping out the aluminum front diff for a more rugged one where I can feel safe enough that it won't break with an ARB locker in it. Again, that would be another 2 yrs perhaps. I like the IFS for now.

I do applaud you for taking up this adventure on your own KJ and wish you the best of luck with it. KJ owners should be excited to hear how it all turns out because you and your friend can set the standard and precedence for future KJ endeavors.

Just remember, there are projects going on with other fellow LOST members on SFA mods but supposedly less invasive on the KJ.
Author:  ManicMechanicJoe [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
i guess price would depend on how much welding is involved, this can't be bolt on. could it?
Author:  krazz1e [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
i'm an idiot
Author:  zjmikey [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
krazz1e wrote:
35" are huge for DD. And for wheeling probably over kill. I would be estatic with 33" or even a full 32". 35" i would only do once this is a dedicated trail rig, and even then it's probably SFA time.

However, with that said being ABLE to run 35" and running 32" in the meantime is a nice thought.

Price not sure at this point but anything over $1500 and I'd probably spend the extra $ and do SFA.



Uh, Yeah, 35's are way too big for a daily driver, what was I thinking.. :roll:



Image
Author:  broncsrule [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  35's
Very nice ZJ.... I think KJs on 33's would look awesome. As TokyoJoe said, it would be a couple years till I can "redo" my 04. Lots of payments and warrenty left still. But it would be great for others to perfect this whole axle swap thing in the meantime!
Author:  snowsport [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
What Tokyojoe said. :)
Author:  MrCRD [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Um..
I love reading all the posts but to answer your question I would use the same price range as the RE TJ brackets that you weld on those 8.8's which i think are around 4 to 5 hundred bucks. Then add a couple just because it will be a PITA for you and you are the guinea pig. I'm thinking 5 to 6 hundred. Of course you would be giving your LOST brothers and sisters a nice discount though. :D :D :D :D

Good luck on your project.
Author:  ARBSeth [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I feel all you guys on waiting til it's paid for. Mine so happens to be free and clear next month.... imagine that?

We're not trying to mass market anything. We're just trying to decide if I should build like I would if it was only me in mind (1 ton axles all around, 37" boggers, cut away fenders and a flame job!) or do a set up that we could market to a few of you guys (the d30 and redoing the rear suspension w/the 8.25) and recover a little of the cost of R&D. More than anything, we like to build stuff. If we can help some of you out and maybe turn a buck or two, good deal. Yup, it'll be invasive. Yup, a lot of work. No, it won't ride as nice as my current IFS set up. Yup, kiss your warranty goodbye! It's not for everyone... but I appreciate your feedback and look forward to your input as it comes along...
Author:  Guest [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmm...i've got a 59" wide 5 lug disk brake 8.8 just layin around doin nothin:D

Seth, for just the brackets and control arms...I'd be willing to pay $500ISH (a bit flexible depending on the quality...and I could always go grab an XJ/ZJ/WJ straight front axle from a 4x2 to save my cheap booty money for the time being until i found a suitable D44)...that's assuming all the joints and hardware for the install is included, along with DETAILED instructions, since I have a tendency to eff stuff up.
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