How About An Axle List?

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:38 am

In reading through a BUNCH of threads on here I see this axle used and that axle used etc. I think what is needed is for people "in the know" to list what axles will work. Something like this:

1999 to 2005 HP Dana 30 Jeep Wrangler (not XJ, TJ etc)

Certain years in a given model of trucks work and certain years with the same truck don't work. It would help to clear all of this up from the get go. All of this would assume that we want to stay within the same width as a stock KJ.

So, lets hear from all you people.

Terry

EDIT: You add them below and I'll paste them up here at the top.

XJ Cherokee-Dana 30 high pinion - reverse cut - 27 spline, 1.16" diameter shafts, 7.13" ring gear - used 84-99 (some axles through 91 are vacuum disconnect, 92+ are non-disconnect, 89-95 with ABS have 5-297x u-joints, all 95+ have 5-297x u-joints, all others have 5-260x u-joints)
00-01 XJ used a low pinion axle

Grand Wagoneer- Dana 44 low pinion - standard cut - 30 spline, 1.30" diameter shafts, 8.5" ring gear- Drivers side drop used 80-91 - I can't find the FOR SURE dates of the vacum disconnect but I am 90% sure it was 83-84.

SFA's keeping the rear 8.25
-96-01 jeep xj HP Dana 30
-TJ Front Dana 44

other good axles swaps
-78-79 Bronco HP Dana 44 and Ford 9"
-TJ Rubicon Dana 44 F&R
-JK Dana 30 F, JK Rubicon 44F&R
-70's Ford 250, HP Dana 44 F, Dana 60 R 8lug
-70's Ford 350, HP Dana 60 F&R, Dually Dana 70

wildman · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:37 pm

Ok I'll be the dumb one here and ask????
What is the stock Outside tire to Outside tire width on the KJ & KK?
What is the stock WMS to WMS also? I know I could go out and measure mine but I don't have stock rims or tires on it.

Then if I get this right you want a list of axles such as the Waggy axles and the years that will work? But then you also have an axle like my front. I narrowed it to Waggy width so that I could use Waggy axle and not have to get custom shafts made. Makes for getting axle shafts easier. For me it was REAL easy to narrow the axle but some folks would say it was not within their comfort zone. So do you only want ones that are narrow already or?

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:10 pm

The problem that I see is one truck will have a good choice of a HPD30 for a couple of years and then switch to a different D30 that isn't so good. If I had any kind of memory I could give a good example. Some come with better "other" parts than other axles. Stay away from this one because it has drum brakes not disk etc.

The thing about the axles being stock is for the people that want to keep the 8.25 in the rear and maintain a correct track. Rock Lizard gave some good info about some good axles and I believe some that had draw backs.

To go through all the SFA posts looking for what type of axle to get would be a nightmare with all the comments and questions thrown in also. If there were 1 list with the axles that will work for stock width and maybe another for a wider stance this would make things a lot cleaner.

Terry

EXAMPLE: A Rock Lizard Quote...."The bigger UJoints (297's vs 260) started in mid/late 96. Your best bet would be to find an XJ HP30 from 97-99 and you will have the best 30 out there in stock form."

wildman · **Posted:** Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:06 pm

XJ Cherokee-Dana 30 high pinion - reverse cut - 27 spline, 1.16" diameter shafts, 7.13" ring gear - used 84-99 (some axles through 91 are vacuum disconnect, 92+ are non-disconnect, 89-95 with ABS have 5-297x u-joints, all 95+ have 5-297x u-joints, all others have 5-260x u-joints)
00-01 XJ used a low pinion axle

Grand Wagoneer- Dana 44 low pinion - standard cut - 30 spline, 1.30" diameter shafts, 8.5" ring gear- Drivers side drop used 80-91 - I can't find the FOR SURE dates of the vacum disconnect but I am 90% sure it was 83-84.

Both info was for front axle. The info for rear axles can be had but would take more research. The link I gave the other day for the Dana 44 axle is also very helpful.
Mr N's Dana Articles - http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html

Ask other questions and I will try to provide the info for what I know.

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:42 am

What about other vehicles?

Terry

ken · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:11 pm

Would a full width front Dana HP44 out of a 79 bronco be a good choice for front

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:37 pm

ken wrote:

Would a full width front Dana HP44 out of a 79 bronco be a good choice for front

Bronco solid axles are not "full width",most are 60"-62" WMS to WMS which is really about the same width the KJ has already.

wildman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:15 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

ken wrote:

Would a full width front Dana HP44 out of a 79 bronco be a good choice for front

Bronco solid axles are not "full width",most are 60"-62" WMS to WMS which is really about the same width the KJ has already.

What Bronco axles are you talking about? I am pretty sure a 76-79 Bronco, F100,F150 has a WMS of 66-67".

The 78-79 Bronco, F100,F150 axles have the radius bracket CAST into the axle tube so they are not a good choice for a front axle.

Now if you can find a F250 D44 axle they are fine because they used leaf springs instead of coils. The axle I used was from a 76 F150 and I cut the axle tube down to be Waggoneer width because I was trying to keep as much of the tire as I could under the rig plus I was trying to keep my overall width down.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:10 pm

wildman wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

ken wrote:

Would a full width front Dana HP44 out of a 79 bronco be a good choice for front

Bronco solid axles are not "full width",most are 60"-62" WMS to WMS which is really about the same width the KJ has already.

What Bronco axles are you talking about? I am pretty sure a 76-79 Bronco, F100,F150 has a WMS of 66-67".

The 78-79 Bronco, F100,F150 axles have the radius bracket CAST into the axle tube so they are not a good choice for a front axle.

Now if you can find a F250 D44 axle they are fine because they used leaf springs instead of coils. The axle I used was from a 76 F150 and I cut the axle tube down to be Waggoneer width because I was trying to keep as much of the tire as I could under the rig plus I was trying to keep my overall width down.

The EB HP44's are narrower then the F100/F150 HP44's,the F250 HP44 is even wider then all of those.

wildman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:32 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

The EB HP44's are narrower then the F100/F150 HP44's,the F250 HP44 is even wider then all of those.

Most Early Bronco axles were I think 58-59" WMS and depending on the year were D30 not D44. Also a lot were low pinion not high. The link I posted before to Mr. N's Articles http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html has some of the best information. Maybe I am missing the point here. Is this list a list of BOLT IN axles or a list of axles that can be made to fit?

And then what are we looking for? Wider than stock WMS or stock or close to stock WMS? Maybe I am missing the point.

And maybe instead of saying Bronco axles we should be saying F100/150 axles.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:51 pm

wildman wrote:

And then what are we looking for? Wider than stock WMS or stock or close to stock WMS? Maybe I am missing the point.

Well since the KJ was never designed for a SFA it's more of a "what works best" type of list.Any axle can be made to fit and work,all depends on what you want to run for suspension,money,and terrain/tires running.If you want to run coilovers a 59"-63" WMS to WMS will work,if you want to run coils and separate shocks you will need a wider axles.Then there is strength issues,a LPD30 is a bad choice due to being weak and the KJ is not a light vehicle compared to a Wrangler or XJ.

wildman · **Posted:** Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:20 am

So then we need two lists. One for the Stock to near stock WMS and one for the wider axles. But my next question is are we talking axles that are just a bolt in or ones that need some fab work?

I know you have actual experiance with this while I am just learning but I also have a lot of fabrication experiance too.

Ford D44 high pinion axles are offered in many widths and came under a lot of rigs. Finding the correct one is the challange. For me having to narrow one or both sides isn't an issue. I choose the width I wanted and then went with it. From what I have gathered from you to run coil springs you need a minimum of 65" WMS so a axle from F100 or F150 would work. You need to stay away from the 1978-79 years as they have the cast into the tube radius arm mounts.

Going with a wider F250 D44 axle you could run H1 (Hummer) to bring the tires back somewhat under the rig.

I don't feel that any year is a bad year for the HP30 from the XJ. Yes the earlier years had the X260 u-joints but you can buy new axle shafts and fix that. Yes some years had the vacum disconnect but with the close off plates it isn't a big deal. The axle tube isn't any weaker from my experiance.

Since we are making a IFS rig into a SFA rig you can't really say one axle is better than the other. The other point I want to make is that yes I read all those articles in the magazines and wasn't sure I could narrow a axle on my own. But I did in my driveway with the help from some buddies. So if I can do it so can many others.

wildman · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:45 pm

This may have been brought up before and I just missed it, but here goes anyhow.

The new JK axles are 65"WMS come with 4.10 gears, lockers (electric I think) and the front is a high pinion. They are called a D44 but are actually larger than and have better u-joints. So far the one downfall I have read about seems to be the axle tubes can be weak but there are two company's making sleeving kits for them or axle truss's for them to fix this. I am not sure of a price any more but when first released I thought they were going for under $2,000 per axle. And you could order them from your local Dodge dealer.

ohv_kj · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:17 pm

ok what happened to the list???
I hope this helps

copy and paste this to continue the list

SFA's keeping the rear 8.25
-96-01 jeep xj HP Dana 30
-TJ Front Dana 44

other good axles swaps
-78-79 Bronco HP Dana 44 and Ford 9"
-TJ Rubicon Dana 44 F&R
-JK Dana 30 F, JK Rubicon 44F&R
-70's Ford 250, HP Dana 44 F, Dana 60 R 8lug
-70's Ford 350, HP Dana 60 F&R, Dually Dana 70

wildman · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:43 pm

Your list works BUT the 78-79 Bronco axles ARE NOT a good choice.
Those axles used in Ford vehicles, F100 & F150 plus the Bronco used axles that had the radius arm mount as part of the axle tube. You can not cut this part off.

ohv_kj · **Posted:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:11 am

you had two different types. ones with cast radius arm mounts and ones that bolted... i'm meaning the bolt radius arm types... they can be used, just with some work...

wildman · **Posted:** Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:42 am

ohv_kj wrote:

you had two different types. ones with cast radius arm mounts and ones that bolted... i'm meaning the bolt radius arm types... they can be used, just with some work...

In 78-79 the radius arm bracket was CAST into the axle tube and there is no way to remove it. That is why the F100-150/Bronco axles from those years will not work.

And the other style of radius arm bracket was welded onto the axle.

I am getting my information from here.
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/web_rs44.html

And then also from the axles I have seen.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:45 am

wildman wrote:

ohv_kj wrote:

you had two different types. ones with cast radius arm mounts and ones that bolted... i'm meaning the bolt radius arm types... they can be used, just with some work...

In 78-79 the radius arm bracket was CAST into the axle tube and there is no way to remove it. That is why the F100-150/Bronco axles from those years will not work.

And the other style of radius arm bracket was welded onto the axle.

Yep wildman is correct.Need to stay away from the 1/2 ton HP44 axles from '78-'79 unless you plan on using the Ford radius arms which then it does not matter.The 3/4 ton HP44 was hung by leaf springs and cutting some of the drivers side spring pad that is part of the center section is required if you plan on using seperate coils and shocks,not necessary if using coilovers.

ken · **Posted:** Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:10 pm

I found a hpD30 from a 87-88 cherokee non disconnect w/ 3.54's for $200.00 obo near me. Would this be good swap material?

Inc · **Posted:** Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:25 pm

I went ahead and added this thread to the common SFA build info sticky at the top of this forum section.

How About An Axle List?

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