Howdy do everyone. Well I finally have sometime to sit down and get some stuff written about the build that I am undertaking with the my '06 Sport 4x4 KJ. Right off the bat i'll go ahead and address the issue that everyone is interested in, ABS and ESP.

Fortunately for me in my line of work I work alongside former BIG 3 employees and one of them in fact worked for Jeep up until 2008 and had direct work with the KJ platform, and to be exact, the Powertrain side of its development. Earlier this week I was able to sit down with him and ask him about the ABS/ESP systems and how they may be effected by doing the SFA build. I first informed him of my build and that due to the axles I'm using I'm eliminating the ABS and ESP sytems, and that my plan was to eliminate the features by pulling the fuses for those systems and subsequently the warning light bulbs on the instrument cluster. I mentioned to him the concern that some of the members have shown in regardsto the speedo not working, etc, and he responded with the following: "When the ABS sensors are removed, or say break, the speedometer will still remain functional, the ABS warning light and ESP warning light will illuminate to let you know that the system has detected a fault condition. The ABS wheel speed sesnors monitor wheel speed only to detect where it should apply extra or less braking force to a particular wheel and uses information from the speed sensors in the t-case to make sure it is keeping up to speed correctly. The speedometer on the instrument cluster pulls its information strictly from the speed sensors attached to the t-case and does not invlove those of the ABS wheel speed sensors."

I also asked him, so now that I'll be removing the ABS function of the brake system and since the ABS brake module will still remain in the brake system setup what should I expect? "The brakes should act like hydraulic brakes when there is an ABS fault condition showing, like the one you will present to your system, since your setup will make it think that they are all broken. As for the ABS module it should not do anything and remain open as if it wasn't even there and not regulate brake fluid/brake pressure to any particular wheel on your Jeep. Therefore if you have to do a hard brake application you should get lockup so be prepared for that."

So that's that it appears to me, I'll just remove the ABS sensors, fuses from the engine compartment, and the warning light bulbs from the instrument cluster. As for the speed sesnors on the t-case those will be modified with a SYE kit and a Tom Woods drive shaft install. It will be programmed for 33s and 4.56 gears.

So that's what I wanted to touch on from the get go. The build is being performed by Kevin's Offroad in Phoenix, AZ and the following is the list of parts we're going with for the build as of now:

1. HPDana 44 Iron housing Front Axle out of a South American TJ - Contains 4.56 gears, an OX cable locker, Alloy Chromo 30 spline shafts

2. LPDana 44 out of an '87 Cherokee - Contains 4.56 gears, an OX cable locker, Alloy Chromo 33 spline shafts

3. Tom Woods rear drive shaft and SYE kit with speedometer re-cal kit

4. Clayton Offroad 6" WJ Long-arm kit

5. Custom Kevin's Offroad brackets for mounting long-arm kit (being designed so then any KJ person may be able to do a SFA on their rig with this type of setup)

6. U-Turn Steering Upgrade

7. Currie Anti-rock bar

8. Adjustable Track Bar for WJ with 6" lift

9. Bronco II or other advisable steering box from shop supplier in San Diego

10. I'm also getting my Powertank system charged and installed to the rear cargo area of the Jeep, as well as having a radiator flush and spark plug change.

11. Miscellaneous other parts, hoses and wires etc will be added as well, once the build gets underway with photos and such I will update the thread accordingly.

UPDATED

12. Rear Suspension: OME864 springs and OME N74L shocks (Lift setup for 80 Series Land Cruisers). The shocks allow for an estimated 11" of travel.

13. Front Suspension: Most likely a Fox Coil-over setup. The Fox coils and springs have been used by at least 3 SFA builds that i've read to date and the right setup will be a heavy duty one that will accomodate the heavy weight of an ARB front bumper and winch setup. (The latter items are currently on hold at this time but will make their way to the jeep at some point.)

Keep your eyes ready for more!!!

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

I think your friend is referring to a JK,Even the '06 KJ does not have any sensor in the t-case besides the position sensor.The vehicle speed is read from one of the 4 ABS sensors,looked it up in the '06 FSM.You will have to interface with one of the ABS sensors to get back your speedo.And yes there are 2 speed sensors in the trans but they only monitor the input shaft and output shaft speeds of the trans.In a '06+ KJ if you all 4 of the ABS sensors fail(bad) you will loose your speedo,if 3 are bad with 1 still working you will still have a speedo.

Just letting you know.

Interesting sense I have seen all the wiring diagrams from Jeep as well recently for my '06 KJ and they show the input and output speed sensors attached to the t-case and I'm pretty darn sure I've seen them on my KJ too when I had a t-case linkage break on me in Moab. But maybe I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

Why did you choose a WJ kit??... Is it easier than a TJ kit like others??

i pulled my ABS pump fuse to get rid of ESP.. which in return also got rid of ABS. so i have 3 lights on on the dash (i covered them with electrical tape ). ABS,ESP, and another one (might be BAS). YES my speedo does work. Then again i also have all my sensors still there.. but they are not reading anything since the ABS pump fuse it out and the ABS function is disabled.

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2006 Renegade. Completely stock.

The WJ Kit is more heavy duty from what I've been told to accomodate the weight of WJ which is similar to that of the KJ so that was our reasoning for going that route. I reckon we'll see what happens though...There is a lifetime warranty too with the kit as well, granted that migth only apply if being used on a WJ perhaps?? Gunna have to look into that...

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

I'm looking forward to following your build thread. I've got an 06 libby as well.

As far as the ESP/ABS, I have the lights intermittently on my dash. The speedo never stops working.

Also, even if it didn't work, whats wrong with using a GPS for vehicle speed?

What size tires do you hope to run?

Have fun with the build and GOOD LUCK!!!!
Mark

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2008 VW Rabbit- 5-speed 5-cylinders
2000 TJ 4-cylinders 5-speed I'll let you know when I figure it out.
2006 Liberty SOLD.

As it stands now I might be selling my American Racing wheels to get 15s. I'm looking at getting 33s, BFG KM2s to be exact on black steel wheels. I'll prolly do a tire/wheel package from the local Discount Tire. To get a 33"-35" tire that will fit a 16" wheel just costs too darn much in my opinion, plus i think my jeep will look good with black steelies, that isn't to say it ever looked bad with the current wheels however.

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

Yeah Scooter....you probably could use something sick like these

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So are you offering???

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

Any updates on anything?

Is this the first 06+ KJ SFA?

I'm close to biting the bullet myself.

TJKJ: You keep mentioning something about the speedo. Is this going to be worse with an 06? What about the wheel speed sensors? Can I modify an axle to accept the speed sensors? As far as the ESP is concerned... what is being monitored? Wheel spin or something on the chassis?

ABS? I don't think my rig will remain a DD once I go SFA, but I don't want to deal with dash lights.

Has anyone tried to "stretch" the wheel base of a KJ? I might. I have an entire sheetmetal fab shop at my disposal. Big Welders. a 12' shear, 150 tonne brake press.... (and that it the hydraulic one)... I am going to fab my long arms from scratch. I will be modeling it from my friends TJ... not an exact match, but close enough to have a good idea on the geometry I want.

Sorry to thread Hijack, but I haven't purchased any parts to justify starting my own thread.....



One other question:
EVERYONE seems to say that the HP danas are the way to go. I didn't know that a "regular pinion" is possible.

Also... one other thing...

I'm English. My dad is the reason we ended up in the states. We are machine builders. We used to work for a company who made Vertical lathes.
Every time I hear "Dana" I am reminded of the time that my dad was showing a customer a machine on the shop floor and my dad's secretary told my mom that my dad is unavailable because he is "on the floor with Dana". Sorry. I had to go there.
Mark

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2008 VW Rabbit- 5-speed 5-cylinders
2000 TJ 4-cylinders 5-speed I'll let you know when I figure it out.
2006 Liberty SOLD.

In '06+ KJ's the ABS/ESP/traction control/speedo all are run off the 4 wheel speed sensors.Your going to spend alot of $$$ trying to adapt the KJ's wheels speed sensors into another axle.I can not say if the JK axles with the wheels sensors already in them will work with the KJ's system,I do know the connector are different.


I pretty sure all/most of the SFA KJ's have stretched there wheel base some.I stretched mine about 4" from 104" to 108".

The Hijack continues... sorry....


I will have to look into that. It is not outside of my abilities to mount (and true-in) the teeth/ring which is on the KJ's hub to an axle shaft assuming that it is not cast into the unit... Assuming I can get the VSS ring off the hub I can fit it to an axle shaft. Even if that onvolvs some creative cutting and welding. As far as the sensor... it plugs in? I haven't taken any off on my KJ, so I'm still in the dark there. If it's a bracket then it's easy. If it screws it, then it is also easy... just a matter of finding the right tap I have seen the VSS gear on my front hub when I was doing my brakes if it can be retrofit to the axle shaft then I might have a straight forward job.



Did you push the front or rear axle?
I am considering a custom gas tank to allow the rear to move back a little more...

Thanks for the feedback

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2008 VW Rabbit- 5-speed 5-cylinders
2000 TJ 4-cylinders 5-speed I'll let you know when I figure it out.
2006 Liberty SOLD.

The front wheel speed sensors are integrated into the front hubs,you can remove the sensor but have to disassemble the unit bearing to get to the tone ring.The rear tone rings are pressed onto the axle shafts,they are very soft aluminum and damage real easy(I know,ruined many of them) and the sensor is bolted to the brakes backing plate.You do not want to be welding on any axle shaft,100% sure way to ruin that axle shaft.

As far as the wheel base I pushed my front axle like 2"-2.5" forward and pushed the rear axle 1.75" back.I could only go back 1.75" in the rear due to the gas tank and needing room still to run a trackbar.

I think OHV's KJ had 110"? his front axle was pushed way forward. looked like he amost had a 90 degree approach angle with the 36's he was running and no front bumper lol.

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04' blue limited edition
Wrapped in Ironman
245/75/16 Khumos (2nd set)

A few snippets out of the 06 FSM....

Section 8E-139



I have ABS... so I am assuming I can't use this "flash" to utilize the rear wheel speed sensor?


Section 8E - 142 ELECTRONIC CONTROL MODULES KJ



Hmmm.... dunno if I am reading into this right... I have never really been good with the FSM stuff... it gets into refering to CAN data....

06 KJ Sport: you might be better than Okay as you have sourced your rear axle off of a KJ... I plan on keeping my 8.25 should/when I go SFA... if I am reading the above quotes out of the FSM... does that mean that I need to get my hands on a ECM out of a 2006 6-speed manual... non ABS? Or would disconnecting the front wheel speed sensors cause my libby to revert to the rear WSS's only for the vehicle speed/distance?

Either way... I think I have sourced a HP D30 with 3.55's (which according to one link I found) is what I am sitting on with my KJ being a 6-speed manual sport... (Yeah, I know 3.55's will suck on bigger tires, but I am going for the super budget up front cost on my SFA... as much custom fab as I can.... just get it SFA'ed then worry about gears, lockers, chromolly kit, etc I'm planning on keeping the initial build as frugal as I can while getting quality springs, shocks, driveshafts, etc.... I can always throw a locker gears and chromolly shafts at a D30, but I don't want to get into replacing shocks, and fabbing up new control arms all the time....








Any updates on this SFA? It's been a few weeks....
Mark

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2008 VW Rabbit- 5-speed 5-cylinders
2000 TJ 4-cylinders 5-speed I'll let you know when I figure it out.
2006 Liberty SOLD.

Sorry for no consecutive updates folks but the build should hopefully start Wed of next week. Once I receive photos and such from the build I'll add them here as well. According to the shop they have had some difficulties in getting the Fox Coil Over Shocks I wanted for the front end. I've been away from home and even AZ since April so I won't be hands on like I'd like to be for the build, but from what the shop has told me and what I saw when I droipped my rig off it should be in great hands.

Some items that have been completed though are a radiator flush and spark plug change and my Powertank ssytem was charged and mounted to the rear cargo area of the Liberty on the driver's side. There was a custom bracket formed and attached behind the plastic trim there and the plastic trim was also cutaway to allow for a flush mounting position for the bracket and the tank. Hopefully I'll get a photo of that setup next week if possible.

At any rate be prepared for some sweet photos like I am by the end of next week!!!

-Scott

_________________
Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

That sounds familiar......

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99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

Nice, mine is candy blue and will be on the leftside of the cargo area, just not on the door. Very nice though John!! Once I get the Jeep together I'll have to head up your way for a ride.

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

I wanna come too...I won't get a Power Tank though since you two will both have one:)

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