What does everyone think would be a good price for a bolt or weld on kit for a solid front axle on a 07 and older liberty. The company I work for is thinking of making a kit so I thought this would be a good place to do some market research. At this point we are thinking of making it for use with the newer rubicon front axle that is available through the dealer. It will be a link type suspension, not sure yet whether it would use a standard coil or a coilover shock. Right now we are thinking of doing the front first and the rear to follow. We are looking at whether to do just the arms and brackets and let the customer source his axle and steering or doing a complete kit. The complete kit would likely have to be 7000 min. The brackets and arms could be done for 2000-3000 I think.

What kind of demand would there be or has most people that want it already done it by now? How much is it costing you guys to do them now with custom building everything? Fitting various tire sizes should not be a problem. Any help you could give me would be appreciated. I would really like to develope this as my liberty would be the test mule, free parts, cant complain about that.

TY

Heck I'll buy a complete kit from you right now,then turn around and sell the parts for 3 times as much.You do realize a JK D44 front will run around $3000+ alone.

http://www.moparpartsamerica.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getJointLocator&siteid=214583&chapter=&sectionids=19,2512&groupid=51857&subgroupid=2546&componentid=81215&make=17&model=Wrangler&year=2009&catalogid=2&displayCatalogid=0

7000 complete? Have you really sat down and priced everything out? I mean front and rear diffs, shocks, arms, nuts and bolts etc etc .
I think you should read through some of the "well done" SFA's and what all was involved , what they have done etc. Then start making a list of all parts, labor costs to build it all etc.
Just think before you start throwing out prices you need to research a little more

Good luck

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

I can get you all your parts for under 5000. Now add on the 2k for labor and another 1k for random doo doo.

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2005 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon TJ- Impact Orange
4'' RK LA, 35's KM2's, Warn front bumper, Warn rear bumper with tire swing, Warn gas skid, Nth oil skid, 4.88's, Alloy axles shafts F&R, Rokmen Corner armor with led's, and Rokmen sliders, custom back-up lights from gen-right, piaa 510's, IPF green glow fatboy's up front.

So everything new I would need to lift and bolt a SFA on the KJ
everything "complete" front and rear all ready to bolt on for 5000?
axles, regeared everything???
Sorry can't see it
Used parts and taking my time hunting/swapping etc
but not a full blown kit ready to install
well maybe if they didn't want to make any money and was doing it out of the goodness of their hearts

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

how much shipped to 93535?

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99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

Geezes, some of us know where to find deals at there buddy. Axles I can get done for 500 a piece lol, long arms for 1k, all the metal needed for 350, and so on lol.

Trust me, The girls liberty was under 3500 with brand new parts before We found used close to home lol.

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2005 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon TJ- Impact Orange
4'' RK LA, 35's KM2's, Warn front bumper, Warn rear bumper with tire swing, Warn gas skid, Nth oil skid, 4.88's, Alloy axles shafts F&R, Rokmen Corner armor with led's, and Rokmen sliders, custom back-up lights from gen-right, piaa 510's, IPF green glow fatboy's up front.

Yes everyone can find deals on used parts
thats easy trust me I know
you're going a different direction than what was being discussed

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

Yes but........................

If you were to sell a complete bolt on kit(axles and all) as a buisness you are not going to be selling used parts with the kit,plus it could take years to get enough parts for cheap to make a kit.I mean no one in there right mind would pay that much money for a bunch of used parts that they have no idea what condition the parts are in.Plus there is no such thing as "new" used parts,if it was bolted up it's used or taken out of the box it's used.

K so we are talking new. Alright, The SFA kit would only include everything to throw under the jeep minus the axle. Just like RL's supposed kit in the works, it does not include axles.
With all new components I could get you a kit for around 5k. Add axles in and you can make the price jump up another 3k to 20k.

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2005 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon TJ- Impact Orange
4'' RK LA, 35's KM2's, Warn front bumper, Warn rear bumper with tire swing, Warn gas skid, Nth oil skid, 4.88's, Alloy axles shafts F&R, Rokmen Corner armor with led's, and Rokmen sliders, custom back-up lights from gen-right, piaa 510's, IPF green glow fatboy's up front.

another thing to factor is if the wheel speed sensors would swap over from the JK axles to the 06-07 and some 05s??? with everything working properly.

Take it easy guys, the prices were just a guess at this point and like I said it is only for the front right now. Chrysler sells the front axle for 3000 or so, they were originally about 1500, should have bought some then, complete caliper to caliper including the electric locker. The rear is a little cheaper. I guess if you guys want to spend 20 grand on axles, go right ahead, i just dont see the point. The base price would likely be for a coil spring suspension, if you would want coilovers the price would be higher of course. The axles already come with 4.10 gears. We would also include the steering box and components. so if the axles cost 6 thousand for both front and rear, I dont see why we cant make the steering and brackets for a good price, maybe 5-6 thousand and still make money. The steering is still up in the air until we get around to building it. What is it costing you guys to do it now, and I am assuming you are paying a shop to do it now. What would you pay to be able to do it yourself and save all the labor costs. If you guys want to beat up on somebody looking to make a cost effective kit that you can do yourself then I guess you can, like I said, was just a feeler to see if there would be any demand to make it worth putting the time into developing. I guess I could just tell the boss that they prefer to keep doing it the way they have been.

I don't know of anyone who has spent 20,000 on axles at this point
Staying with 4.10 gears? Better think way lower as 4.10s would literally suck once you mounted up 35 inch tires so theres extra cost involved for front and rear gears
If you are going to do it a complete kit will be needed, coilovers would work best with the narrow confines unless you are going full widths all around then you could possibly go coils. but then you want to stay with the stock rear diff which I would want to include a replacement for it as well

Again more research, measuring and reading needs to be done by you or the company before throwing prices out there. Have seen too many come on various sites and say I can do X for less than anyone else. 6-12 months later they finish the first one and have to say " I lost my butt and have to almost double the price on the next one now.

If you are doing a "kit' it had better have everything needed to make it work right from the get go

Not getting on you per se just stating facts

I think the best approach for you or the company wanting to do a kit is to read what others have used, see the pros and cons and then tear into yours and design a kit. It is real hard to throw a number out there without even doing one to see what is involved. A bolt in kit would take even more work to make it strong enough to last. Quite a few of us have been around long enough to see some junk lifts come on the scene and cause all kinds of problems. building a good product and testing it fully is the way to start

according to JLRockies...just saying

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

Not everyone wants to run 35's. There will obviously have to be a base price and you will have to pay extra for changes such as different suspension or different gears and such. You have to start somewhere right, maybe you might just get lucky and the next people to do it will do what they say. I have to give some idea of what it might cost to guage the demand right. If I cam on here and told everyone it would cost 25 grand just to cover my but then nobody would want it and it would never get built, even though I know it wouldnt cost that much. So I give out a number that would be reasonably doable and see if there is a demand. Of course the kit would include everything if it is a complete kit and the wheel sensors would be worked out. It is not like we would sell it without ever having installed it. We have done some initial measuring and everything seems like it would fit the way we want. Untill we actually get to buying axles and cutting up a donor vehicle we cant say for positive. There would be a lot of time and money put out by us to develope this but we are also not looking to make all our money back on the first kit we sell like some companies. We are not looking to clear ten grand a piece here, if the demand is high we can make less profit per unit and make everyone happy. Like I said, this isnt our full time business, we build suspensions and cages for the recreation market, sand rails, utvs, and race trucks. for example. I am trying to talk the boss into expanding into the jeep market so I need something to convince him it could be profitable. He isnt going to put the time and money into something and then have no one want it. All I am asking for it an idea of how much people would be willing to pay and if they are actually looking to purchase.

We are leaning towards a weld in kit, it would just be harder for the average guy to install, not everyone has a welder and know how to use it. Not sure of legal ramifications if some customers weld breaks and causes a wreck.

As far as running 35s
we can now run 32s easy, whats stopping us from going bigger is that 4.10s are the lowest gears available for the front and also about the biggest tire you want to run with the front diff anyways.
To clear everything when doing a SFA you have to lift say in the 8 inch range. So if even at 7-8000 price tag most everyone doing that would not want to stay with a smaller tire. Setting it up from the get go to run 35s say would be the best bet, you know everyone wants bigger!

A well thought out/ builders kit would sell a few I am sure, lots will want it right off the bat I am sure with 50% of them actually buying it.
Now I think is a great time to get into something like that since the KJs are getting cheaper to buy and people are buying them used to actually take place of their rusted out XJs

Back to coils -vs- coilovers there is one I saw up close and personal which they tired to use a XJ front axle with coils. The coils had a bow in them since there was actually not enough room for them to mount properly. With coilovers it would of been way better with room for everything to mount.

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

What tires do you think the rear axle can handle, no bigger than 33 maybe? Or could they handle 35's without a locker, and they werent used extremely hard? Wondering if you could sell a front kit with the option of upgrading rear later when money was available. I am also wondering how many people move the axles when the go to solid axle. Do you generally move them forward and back or leave them in the stock location? I have been reading peoples builds but everyone seems to have a different way of going about it, just trying to think of a good cost effective way. I am kind of taking this on myself because I know I would like to have a good kit available. I think by the time you put the adaptors on the rear axle to change the bolt pattern the rear would be close to the same width as the front. The new wrangler are a different pattern I believe.

So far it sounds like the best option would be to sell the brackets and arms and maybe the steering as a kit and let the customer source his own drivetrain. That way they can save some money and source a used 35 or a new 44 depending on his budget. Would just have to build brackets for both options.

The "ones done right" according to some on here that cost well over 10K used alot of high end parts that exceed the intent of this kit (If I am reading you correctly). "Doing it right" in my book is a vehicle that is well put together and performs well on and offroad. There are a good # of instances on this forum of SFA KJ's under 10K that fit that bill. I agree there are also a couple that don't. To lay judgement, like a few on here do very often, of other's SFA's is uncalled for. Unless you saw the vehicle first hand you can't speak to why a vehicle was sold or crashed. I flipped a CJ missing an alligator on alligator alley in south Florida. Was that CJ an unsafe build in some eyes here?

I owned a SFA Xterra in the past (which a kit does exist for and i personally used) so I not only have the experience of transforming an IFS vehicle into an SFA vehicle but I also am in the process of doing the same to my KJ.
To say an SFA can't be done "the right way" for less than 10K (in the 7-8K for the front and rear) including labor is crazy. I currently have two separate shops that I have been working with and both feel very confident we can keep the cost under 8K. This includes using a used HP44 from an early Bronco ($500), gears (4.88s since i have manual tranny), ARB lockers, BDS long arms from one shop and custom arms from the other, and all misc bracketry, bolts, driveshafts, etc. One of the shops has completed an SAS on 5 different vehicles including my Xterra and my buddies Tacoma (1 being a KJ from what they said).

TJKJ2002's SFA is a well put together vehicle and one that i would love to own but does not meet the intent of what dirtrulz is speaking of due to the high end parts causing a price tag that not all of us can afford. JJsKJ is also a well put together vehicle that it seems is wheeled often and has stood up. It also has high end parts that bumped its price tag up. (not bashing, please don't take it as such...just using as an example).
OHV_KJs SFA is a perfect example of what CAN be done on a budget. Granted it had its issues at the beginning due to a shop's ignorance and not doing it right but once that was worked out, that vehicle was wheeled probably more than any other SFA KJ and it stood up. Once sold it ran into issues but its unknown the true reasoning behind those issues (i believe a top coilover mount broke off; if i'm not mistaken). There are a few other examples out there that prove my point.

Point is... it can be done for under 10K and, me for one, will not bash your initiative. Bring it on and I am excited to see what you guys come up with.


Whether my SFA KJ ever gets done or not is still to be seen as buying an XJ or ZJ and making it what a SFA KJ would be is still more cost effective (and in the ZJ's case, a V8 is a possibility). Someone may argue the cost effective part here so let me explain... used ZJ someone has already lifted, locked, and re-geared goes for roughly 6-7K. Slightly less than the 8K i think it would cost to build my KJ the way i want.

Not trying to make anyone mad here or cause arguments but I appreciate dirtrulz initiative/post and wanted him to know he has at least one supporter.


SM

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

Well some will see your reasoning just got to ask why spend so much and then keep the rear 8.25 and the stock 231 t-case?

Yeah many XJ's are running the 8.25's with 35" tires and they are doing good,but a XJ is 700lbs(stock verses stock) then a KJ.My KJ is at 6000lbs,no way could a D30(or HP30) hold up,as would the 8.25.Sure I overkilled the axles a little for 35" tires but it is the last thing I want to worry about on the trail.I didn't want to break and have to spend another big chunk of change putting better axles under it so I started with better stuff from the start.Oh and I still have room for upgrades,nothing spends $10,000 faster then building a bullit proof HP60 for the front.


If I just add up my steel used and bolts that is almost $1200 alone,hardware will nickel and dime you to death real fast and you can't go cheap on hardware.There is alot to making a KJ SFA and being safe to drive,you must overkill it.

My feelings
If you are building a kit to sell to the general public it better be built well, almost in the overkill range. Nothing will kill the business more than trying to go cheap on a part and having failures.
Sure if you build your own in the garage picking up used parts and what not then sure it can be cheaper. If something breaks "OH well I cheaped out so now I have to build it better"
But if you are a business its got to be good from the get go!

Anything can be made cheaper, we all know that all to well.
But in the end you want something to holds up and not be like say the Rock Krawler kit that wasted a lot of peoples time and money

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited