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 Post subject: SFA questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:04 pm 
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After my last trip im really fed up with IFS, generally off road. Discod the front sway, and while it gives me heaps and bounds of travel, it gives me just as many funny noises and clunks. I got to talking to everone, and was wondering if this was possible. my buddy has a drivers side drop d30 from his JK he said i could have, if i found somebody to put that up front, just matching my lift in the rear.. for now with the 31's, what would be needed in this entire process? i know cutting everything out, the unibody stiffeners, but the really technical things im unsure of. Im not dead set on this yet because i know it can get really complicated, but i figured it would be worth asking.

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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Hey bud easy way to find out what all in involved is to go to the SFA section read up on all the builds.

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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:30 pm 
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I've gone through JJ's and a few others, but they all went with big lift big tires. Im looking to go to 33's max, but to keep my options open if i ever want to go higher, IE putting in a common axle. If the d30 would fit which i think it would since its drivers side drop, it would really come to figuring out steering, suspension, and possible driveshafts. Im most concerned about the suspension really. I would want to run a tri link if possible since i read that four links are difficult to set up on the front. I wouldnt want the coilover shock and spring combined system that JK's use, i would want what Tj's use, with the coils and springs seperate from eachother. Easier parts to get and cheaper as well.

I would be keeping my 8.25 rear the way it is set up, and if i wanted to go say, two inches higher to fit 33's comfortably, i THINK the rear could be set up for that with some driveshaft work, but im not positive on this. Basically right now, im looking into getting parts and opinions together, while i try and build up funds to hopefully make this come true. I want to have all information possible before i cut or hack anything. Also, i got a phone number of a local guy who builds jeeps, a certified mechanic that does it in his own garage. He charges reasonably but also does a darn good job from what i've seen. he built his own CJ from scrap that has a 308 on i think 38's if i remember correctly.

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06 CRD limited
Frankenlift, JBA 1/4 top plate, 3 clevis rings, 3 stacked iso's
JBA UCA and quick disconnects
Procomp rockkrawlr 16x8 4.25bs with 265-70-65 General Grabber AT2's
Mopar full skid plates, JCR stage 3 Rock Rails
Kenwood HU, 6.5 pioneer marine grade door speakers, JL stealthbox kenwood amp
GDE HOT tune
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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:42 pm 
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One big problem with the JK D30 is the different bolt pattern(5 on 5) so you would have to have 2 different pairs of rims and carry 2 spares.Also the JK D30 is well known for cracking axle tubes so you'd have to have it sleeved and it's about 3" wider then what the front is now.

Pretty much your going to have to have some lift,JJ only runs 33" tires on his SFA KJ,as does Wally.I'd also pass on the front tri-link,not a daily driver friendly setup,nor very safe at higher speeds.


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:17 pm 
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Thats a good point, i didnt think of the bolt pattern issue. Another point a member has brought up, is the possibility of leaf springs. Im not particularly a fan of them, but they're extremely straight forward and easy to set up. Im concerned about body roll mainly with leaf springs. Also, whats a short list of axles i could run up front? d30's from xj's? or are they passenger drop, i cant recall. Anyway, thanks for all the help already, im piecing together different idea's and throwing them out here/comparing them to see what will and won't work.

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06 CRD limited
Frankenlift, JBA 1/4 top plate, 3 clevis rings, 3 stacked iso's
JBA UCA and quick disconnects
Procomp rockkrawlr 16x8 4.25bs with 265-70-65 General Grabber AT2's
Mopar full skid plates, JCR stage 3 Rock Rails
Kenwood HU, 6.5 pioneer marine grade door speakers, JL stealthbox kenwood amp
GDE HOT tune
Soon to come
RL Rock monitor bumper


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:35 pm 
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The HP30's from '96-'99 XJ's is a good choice(not my choice),much stronger then a JK D30.

As far as leaf springs you do not get as much flex as a coil spring suspension and loose alot of approch angle,not a easy mod to a KJ as you have to built spring perches that have to take the whole weight of the vehicle.


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:34 am 
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I have to agree, Coilovers = more travel, and its a simple setup really once you've seen a couple done. If the liberty was a body on frame, I would go with leaf's. But the substructure on the liberty needs stiffening just to do coilovers, I cant imagine the stress leafs would place on the thin metal. You can find coilovers for a fairly decent price, and get a universal long arm kit, or piece one together.

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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:16 pm 
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Yeah I've decided leafs are out of the question. Too much stress on little parts. With coils I plan on stiffening the unibody anyway. Still browsing around and learning generally what I need, before I get too hasty.

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06 CRD limited
Frankenlift, JBA 1/4 top plate, 3 clevis rings, 3 stacked iso's
JBA UCA and quick disconnects
Procomp rockkrawlr 16x8 4.25bs with 265-70-65 General Grabber AT2's
Mopar full skid plates, JCR stage 3 Rock Rails
Kenwood HU, 6.5 pioneer marine grade door speakers, JL stealthbox kenwood amp
GDE HOT tune
Soon to come
RL Rock monitor bumper


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:16 pm 
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From what I've seen, make sure you are reinforcing areas where the links, and track bar(s), and steering box are. A lot of the XJ guys use .122 frame stiffeners, this is around the tune to 1/8" I saw a guy on here that had 1/4" ones and they were cool, def. beef, but probably added an extra 140 lbs to his jeep lol. When I get around to it, I'm going to use 1/8" all the way down the frame rails where i can, and add some 3/16's in the critical areas.

They have a lot of radius arm/ 4 link set ups for wranglers that would work, they're getting pretty cheap too. You can get long arm kit for a little over $1k, and if you call the vendor and negotiate they might be able to cut you a deal since you wont be using some of the brackets that the TJ's kits have. Other than that look into ballistic fab, poly performance, and other companies for your brackets, links, joints, etc. The more you can supply and do yourself the cheaper and in my opinion based on your fabrication abilities better your build will be.

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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:58 pm 
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I'd be thinking 3/16" or 1/4" for the uniframe stiffiners,and 1/4" for any steering box mount and track bar mounts.Yeah it adds alot of weight but the uniframe is pretty thin and those are pretty high stress area's.Don't want to be another OHVKJ SFA on our hands.


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:06 pm 
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ramlebliberty wrote:
From what I've seen, make sure you are reinforcing areas where the links, and track bar(s), and steering box are. A lot of the XJ guys use .122 frame stiffeners, this is around the tune to 1/8" I saw a guy on here that had 1/4" ones and they were cool, def. beef, but probably added an extra 140 lbs to his jeep lol. When I get around to it, I'm going to use 1/8" all the way down the frame rails where i can, and add some 3/16's in the critical areas.

They have a lot of radius arm/ 4 link set ups for wranglers that would work, they're getting pretty cheap too. You can get long arm kit for a little over $1k, and if you call the vendor and negotiate they might be able to cut you a deal since you wont be using some of the brackets that the TJ's kits have. Other than that look into ballistic fab, poly performance, and other companies for your brackets, links, joints, etc. The more you can supply and do yourself the cheaper and in my opinion based on your fabrication abilities better your build will be.


Am I the guy with the cool stiffeners? 1/4" with Ballistic Fab Skulls.
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The whole Uni-Frame is done now front to back.

I agree with the cheap TJ Long arm kit it cut the cost way down, I bought a Rough Country 6" Long Arm upgrade kit which is just the arms and all hardware (800$) I sold the TJ LA frame bracket for 100$ to a guy building custom arms so really cost me 700$. The problem is sure they are longer arms but they are more of a mid arm on a Libby than what you normally see on a SAS'd Libby, Mine flex amazing sitting in the shop tho so hopefully they translate well into the real world. Definitely build it overkill the first time, fixing a uni-body that's all torn apart sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:38 pm 
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i dont really think there would be a problem mounting leafs but i dont really like the idea of leafs up front and coils in the back. i saw one a few weeks ago at a show, id hate to offend the the guys work, especially if its some one on here, but it was one of the worst jobs i had ever seen on any kind of modification on a car or truck. they took an axle, im going ot say from a yj, along with springs and about an 8" piece of frame for each mounting point. they welded a piece of 2x4 or 2x3 hss to the bottom of the kj rail, then the piece of torch cut frame rail to the bottom of that, for the rear mounting point the even put 2 pieces of 1" plate between those pieces, or maybe it was instead of the hss. they used 2 pieces of plate, since i guess they didnt have a piece long enough to match the length of all those pieces. the rear had some home made long arms. they didnt look great but no where nearly as bad as the front setup. it didnt have a driveshaft. it was a black limited with the chrome or chrome clad rims. it looked nice from far but when i got up close i couldnt believe it.


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:47 pm 
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Yea I just don't see the practical application of leafs up front, you save maybe a couple hundred buying leafs over coilovers. When you have companies like FOA that have decent coilovers for pretty darn cheap, the cost savings of buying leafs over coil overs are fairly insignificant. If you think about it regardless of it you do it yourself or have a shop do the conversion your looking at a couple grand in metal, arms, springs, and brackets, whats saving a couple hundred for a spring that's going to give you less flex than the coilovers?

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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:35 pm 
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jamesdart wrote:
i dont really think there would be a problem mounting leafs but i dont really like the idea of leafs up front and coils in the back. i saw one a few weeks ago at a show, id hate to offend the the guys work, especially if its some one on here, but it was one of the worst jobs i had ever seen on any kind of modification on a car or truck. they took an axle, im going ot say from a yj, along with springs and about an 8" piece of frame for each mounting point. they welded a piece of 2x4 or 2x3 hss to the bottom of the kj rail, then the piece of torch cut frame rail to the bottom of that, for the rear mounting point the even put 2 pieces of 1" plate between those pieces, or maybe it was instead of the hss. they used 2 pieces of plate, since i guess they didnt have a piece long enough to match the length of all those pieces. the rear had some home made long arms. they didnt look great but no where nearly as bad as the front setup. it didnt have a driveshaft. it was a black limited with the chrome or chrome clad rims. it looked nice from far but when i got up close i couldnt believe it.


At ok 4wd?


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:45 am 
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yup.
i did see yours there too. pretty sweet. i dont like to talk crap about other peoples rides, im not making fun of the guy but im a welder, its not like im some punk kid that doesnt have a clue.


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:03 am 
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[quote="ramlebliberty"]Yea I just don't see the practical application of leafs up front [quote]
With leafs, maybe you can do the SFA with minimal lift, since you don´t need anything (upper control arms, track bar, etc) over the axle...


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:54 am 
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Chino78 wrote:
ramlebliberty wrote:
Yea I just don't see the practical application of leafs up front
Quote:
With leafs, maybe you can do the SFA with minimal lift, since you don´t need anything (upper control arms, track bar, etc) over the axle...


You can keep it low with Coilovers and a Radius arm setup by pushing the front end ahead about 8"'s It makes the steering setup a lot less fun too put together but gives you the clearance you need. You can gain droop by putting the Coil Mounts up inside the engine bay as well Mine is set to 4" up with 10" down front and back. I think my engine mount setup is different than some of the others I've seen pictures of, but I haven't seen any pictures of what the 2 RL swaps look like up there. My upper mounts come within 2" of hitting at full stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:39 pm 
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Has anyone used a high pinion dana 44 front axle and a dana 44 rear axle?

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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:41 pm 
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irollgen4s wrote:
I would be keeping my 8.25 rear the way it is set up, and if i wanted to go say, two inches higher to fit 33's comfortably, i THINK the rear could be set up for that with some driveshaft work, but im not positive on this. Basically right now, im looking into getting parts and opinions together, while i try and build up funds to hopefully make this come true.


I was talking about a SFA swap to a couple of my 4wheeling buddies. They said the 8.25 would be okay in a SFA swap for the Liberty with 33's. If you go to 35's well... :roll: You'll DEFINATELY NEED a more sturdy axle.

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 Post subject: Re: SFA questions
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:43 pm 
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Find a older Wagoneer and there you are. :pepper:

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