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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:26 am 
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blackdiamond wrote:
rid my jeep of the most ridiculously dangerous ifs setup i have ever seen.

Funny thing is the KJ uses the same IFS setup that most others use today also like Ford,GM,Dodge,Honda(older),Nissan,and Toyota.


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:52 pm 
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The IFS is completely different when it comes to ball joint design. most cars or whatnot have the ball joint being pushed into the socket with the weight of the vehicle. the jeep has the lower control arm ball joint always trying to pull it out of the socket, thus releasing the lower control arm into the pavement at 65 miles an hour and flipping the vehicle. putting in high quality joints is a way of slowing that down, but i would feel much more comfortable hitting bumps on the road if i knew it that the ball joint was being pushed together rather than pulled apart. not suprisingly jeep fixed this on the grand, the next generation liberty, the commander etc. way to mess it up on this one Jeep.


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Some think way too much of what may happen when in fact its not really an issue :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:46 am 
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Umm dude i think you are majorly over thinking the whole ball joint thing yes your logic is sound but you would hear and feel alot of noise before it failed completely. And I greatly doubt you could find one recorded incident.

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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:14 am 
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i found several. hence the 2 recalls jeep did on the lower ball joints. a lady lost her husband to a roll over related to it. i'm sure it hasen't happened as many times as i'm making it sound, but it is a dumb design, and i'm hard on my jeep. i replaced the crappy factory joints with the twice as large moogs but still feel it is a dumb design. but, were getting off topic here. my question is why not leafs?


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:48 am 
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No the question should be "why" leaves

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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:16 am 
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If your going to do a sfa do it right the first time, not some ugly leaf spring set up that does not work well with the KJ. My :2cents:


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Leafs have there advantages like low Cost, no matter what anyone tells you you will save quite a bit of money by running leaves over a Link setup. If I had another Libby I was going to SAS it I would without a doubt do Leafs front and rear, Take a wander over too pirate4x4.com and take notice of how many TJ's being converted to 1-tons are ending up on leafs. Then take note of how well they work, Yes links do have there advantages like more clearance and yes they are Prettier than leafs Buggin :lol: but when it comes down to dollars and cents Leafs would be way cheaper to do and that's the deciding factor for many people trying to figure out if they really want to do a SAS on a liberty. I'm working on getting pictures of a semi-local Leaf spring 360 engined swap, to post in here end of rant :2cents:


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Yes leafs are cheaper but that is where there advantages end really. Coils and shocks with a 3 or 4 link get way more articulation and way more clearence then leaves. Also the ride of coils and shocks is way better then leaves which is important because this will lessen the wear and tear on all your components. Plus why most people are running Leaves and 1 Tons in because of the cost. Plus they are easier to build and install on older trucks and jeeps not so much on newer model unibodies/semi-unibodies. Plus leaves on a dana 30 or even a 44 is really kinda over kill.

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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:02 pm 
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Iv been reading this thread for quite some time, both leafs and coils have their advantages but you have to take sarah as reference on this as well, she is in school probably not making a great deal of money, sup for her leafs would be better, yes I myself would prefer coils but when you break it down to a college student salary leafs are probably her best option, because it is proven in its cabilities

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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:29 pm 
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I love a leaf spring set up, just not on the KJ. When a KJ gets leafed it looks like a ifs vehicle that got converted to a sfa no matter how ya do it. Coils look better, perform better, fit the KJ so much better and offer a greater amount of design capabilities....again just my :2cents:
CIEJEK'S KJ wrote:
Iv been reading this thread for quite some time, both leafs and coils have their advantages but you have to take sarah as reference on this as well, she is in school probably not making a great deal of money, sup for her leafs would be better, yes I myself would prefer coils but when you break it down to a college student salary leafs are probably her best option, because it is proven in its cabilities

It would be wiser to spend the time and money finishing school than converting a KJ poorly, more of my worthless :2cents: :jester:


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:38 pm 
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leaf springs have been around for a long time, and they have greatly improved in quality and ride over the years. plus it depends alot on the spring rate and shocks to make the ride a quality one. with coil-over you can have a rough ride too if you don't do it right. flex may not be as much, but there comes a point when you don't need more flex, and you just need traction aids. plus, and this is a big plus to me, you can keep it lower than all the 8 inch lift sas libertys. the leafs are strong, cheap, and simple. the one liberty with leafs seem to do alright. i wish he would pipe up and show his build and fill us in on how he likes it.


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:08 pm 
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How do you figure it will be that much lower with leaves? No matter what there are certain things that have to clear each other unless you don't want much up travel.
I do agree that leaves can ride good, and if I had the cash to build what I want right now it would have leaves, but its also a lot bigger and leaves just look right on the front of a Ford van with 35s :roll: Not so on a KJ

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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:52 pm 
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tommudd wrote:
unless you don't want much up travel.


Then the question is posed what do you need more than a few inches of up for anyways? Up Travel is overrated, Down travel is what keeps your tires on the ground. When are you going to do up a SAS on your KJ anyhow Tom?


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:56 pm 
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RED_KJ_666 wrote:
tommudd wrote:
unless you don't want much up travel.


Then the question is posed what do you need more than a few inches of up for anyways? Up Travel is overrated, Down travel is what keeps your tires on the ground. When are you going to do up a SAS on your KJ anyhow Tom?

A little more up-travel keeps the body more level,less tippy.


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:23 pm 
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well, with leaf springs you can achieve more up travel. the axle will tuck up really nice without upper control arm brackets, and if you don't do high steer, then you don't have to worry about the tie rod hitting the frame, and i know you can tuck up the steering box because i have seen it in these forums. if you look at the pictures on here of the sas liberty's you will see that because of the 10" travel coil overs that people use the coil overs bottom out before the axle would. with leafs you could use that space for up travel, and still have down travel. i think up travel is good for alot of things, like pot holes and high speed on trails and things. down travel is good for crawling, and slower stuff. the thing is to get both, and i think that you could with leafs.


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:34 pm 
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blackdiamond wrote:
well, with leaf springs you can achieve more up travel..

I suppose that's why all long travel suspension systems are coil overs. :roll:
I must say it is interesting a blackdiamond shows up to feed this post and a blackwidow disappears :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:51 pm 
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ok, i guess didn't make it clear with what i was trying to say. with liberty's i believe you could achieve more up travel because of the mounting points and such for a coil over, you limit the up travel without lifting it sky high. to keep it low you have to sacrifice up travel, and with leafs i don't think that would be a compromise. yes coil-over are good for high speed, there is no denying that. just look at all the high dollar trophy trucks, but i don't have that kinda cash, my front end is falling apart, and i would rather upgrade instead of repairing.


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:28 am 
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blackdiamond wrote:
ok, i guess didn't make it clear with what i was trying to say. with liberty's i believe you could achieve more up travel because of the mounting points and such for a coil over, you limit the up travel without lifting it sky high. to keep it low you have to sacrifice up travel, and with leafs i don't think that would be a compromise. yes coil-over are good for high speed, there is no denying that. just look at all the high dollar trophy trucks, but i don't have that kinda cash, my front end is falling apart, and i would rather upgrade instead of repairing.

I don't run coilovers in the front,I have about 6" of up-travel and 7" of down-travel and no leaf springs either.

You just won't get good flex from a front leaf sprung KJ as they are heavy pics,just like coilovers on a KJ,not impressive flex either for being coilovers.


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 Post subject: Re: Leafed SFA KJ Parts (need help with the front)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:42 pm 
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see I noticed that about your KJ. but you are also running a full width axle so you have room to mount the coils out farther. where on a 30 the coils would have a funky bend in them. but on a waggy 44 there is more tube to move the buckets out farther like on the HP 44, but i don't know if is enough whereas it is only a couple more inches than the 30. the problem with the 44 is the bolt pattern. the only option out there to convert the 44 to a 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern is using early dodge d100 parts, which i think would be fine enough for a light liberty and moderate tire size, but like on another forumn people say they are crap, and not to bother with them. and i think you can get enough flex for what you need from leafs. alot of guys use them when sas'ing xterra's and tacoma's and stuff and i can't imagine they are much if any lighter.
I read the little thread the guy with leafs has up on here and he said it rode and flexed good, i wish he would post up pictures and stuff, but i can only wait patiently.


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