Treadwright Retreads Review - Updated Post #1 - 3-18-09

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:12 am

I agree that most blowouts are caused by impact damage/nailhole type issues

but not all blowouts are the same mechanism - the Firestone Wilderness blowouts were caused by the separation.

too low a pressure, or too high a load causes excessive sidewall flexing
sidewall flexing causes heat buildup
heatbuildup is worse on hot roads
sidewall flexes more rapidly at higher speed

excessive heat causes tread separation
depending on the point of separation it may or may not hold air

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:23 pm

FYI - I posted a link to the new TIRB report - lots of good data

Michelin and Goodyear retreading - blow away my arguments about incoming inspection
however the 1000 or so independent retreaders still leave lots of questions
and the no-national standard sounds like it's getting some visibility.

Note - the report's final conclusion is that retreads aren't over-represented in Road junk.
and the data says 40-45% of the tries on the road are retreads and the Debris was 67% retread?
and the University of Michigan study had manufacturing defects as a category with about 240 counts in retread and 17 OE tires?

They don't state how they arrived at the conclusion.

note on page 114 Def/month and Def/speed limit -
I wonder what the 80mph San Antonio to El Paso stretch of I10 does in August.

Guest · **Posted:** Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:30 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

I agree that most blowouts are caused by impact damage/nailhole type issues

but not all blowouts are the same mechanism - the Firestone Wilderness blowouts were caused by the separation.

too low a pressure, or too high a load causes excessive sidewall flexing
sidewall flexing causes heat buildup
heatbuildup is worse on hot roads
sidewall flexes more rapidly at higher speed

excessive heat causes tread separation
depending on the point of separation it may or may not hold air

the Firestone/Ford debacle was not at all related to blowouts. They were tread separations, and nothing more.

Now if you hear WHOPWHOPWHOP of your tread beating your fenders to death, and you don't pull over and stop and continue driving on the steel belts, then you deserve what you get.
Tread separation=not a blowout. Just so you know.

ThunderbirdJunkie's $.02.

40-45% of WHAT tires are retreads? heavy truck tires? Because I will guarantee you that retreads do NOT come CLOSE to 40% of vehicles on the road on cars/light trucks.

Just because you read a couple vague articles doesn't mean you know everything :roll:

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:59 am

It's the NHTSA - vague okay it's government - if you have a more objective data source I'd be interested in that too.
Opinions are great - as long as they're supported by data & logic.

40-45% is the percentage of sales - they were specifically looking at big rig tires, that's where they had the most data
and if retreads are less than that - then they worse from a seperation standpoint - because they were 67% of the debris analyzed.

The Firestone tread seperated - the tires blew and the Explorers rolled - they killed people.
It's in the lawsuits - they're on Google - you have an internet connection - feel free to use it.

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:10 pm

and remind me again why we are talking about new Firestone tires which were run underinflated and killed people in a place where we are discussing retreads.
Then discussing truck retreads against retreads that work on a automobiles and SUVs is different as well.
HOW many times do you drive down the road and pass cars with undeinflated tires, half flat and they are cruising along at 75 plus MPH thats what causes over half or more of the seperations...stupid people! Not Firestone or any other company it is the consumer!

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:15 pm

THANK YOU TOM!

If the drivers of those Explorers would have had their tires inflated TO 26 psi (my dad's 96 was always inflated to 26 psi, whether it was hauling a 5,000 lb '66 Buick or just playing in the dirt)

Did he ever have a tread separation?

Nope.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:27 pm

It's great that your dad didn't have a problem - but from a data analysis standpoint that's called anecdotal.
(was he running retreads?)

The reason Firestone came in was the question of whether Tread seperation causes a blowout - since Firestone provided a reasonable number of examples - I used them as an example, the failure mechanism is the same.
Poor driver response to the blowout - tends to cause rollovers.

and yes - if anyone cares to look at the data - tread seperation is overwhelmingly low pressure
made worse by heavy loads, high speeds and high temperatures.

The issue is whether retreads are more susceptible to that than original tires
and again looking at the Data on the retread org website - retreads are over-represented in tire Debris studies

now there could be some good explainations for that - I can think of several - but I don't have any data supporting that

(gotta go to meetings now - ya'll have fun)

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:35 pm

The point is that you really don't understand what you are talking about, and that there are lots of different causes that lead to a tread separation, and you STILL don't even understand WHAT a tread separation IS.

There is nothing to try to control during a tread separation. You keep driving until you stop. Then you stop, put the spare on, and continue on your merry way.

Are tread separations scary? FXXX YES they are. Do they make lots of noise? FXXX YES they do.

Do I believe they are inherently dangerous?

FXXX NO I don't.

The fact of the matter is, you need to understand the difference between a blowout and a tread separation before you start arguing with people about them.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:31 pm

Okay I won't argue about them - I don't want either - they're both fails
I won't buy tires that do that.

HoppedUpOnGoofballs · **Joined:** Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:36 pm **Posts:** 203

ATXKJ wrote:

Okay I won't argue about them - I don't want either - they're both fails
I won't buy tires that do that.

Then you wont buy any tires.. It can (and does) happen to all brands.

(Sorry if I am a little confused - your statement was rather vague)

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:13 pm

put the accent on "I won't argue about them"

and to quote yellocoyote

amerpwr · **Posted:** Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:00 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

actually what I haven't seen any data on - is a retread of a Goodyear or Michelin
- more or less reliable than say a Chinese manufactured Kumho?

For one, I have Kumhos on my Grand Am and love them. Never had one problem with them and will keep buying them until they stop making them or i sell the car.

ATXKJ wrote:

as to Corvette & Mustangs - both are designed and built by a single company
the better comparison would be a Mustang or Corvette vs a Kit Car Cobra.

and 2, Corvettes and Mustangs are NOT designed and built by the same company. Ones a chevy ones a ford or am I behind the learning curve? Unless they recently combined then im pure they different.

Guest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:25 am

You idiot!

I love my Chrysler Corvette and my Plymouth Mustang!

:lol:

Maximum Carnage · **Posted:** Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:39 pm

I’ve always loved the Toyota Tahoe.

Seems like this thread went way off topic.

daspes · **Posted:** Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:46 pm

jinstall · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:46 am

Jut a couple of points on retreads.

In western europe they are banned, anyone caught with them is fined heavily.

The donor tire, what kind of life did it have before the retread process?

How old is the donor carcas?

No matter how good a tire is if it is not PROPERLY MAINTAINED it will fail, period.

How many of you really check your tire pressure every week or when there is a 15 degree average tempurature change?

How many of you have your allignment checked at least twice a year?

How many of you adgust pressure do to weight loads differences?

Would you state your family's life on them?

Would you state someone else's family on them?

There are many factors in tires no matter what you get. Personally I buy new and do not take the risk. I had a gator take out the tranny in my 77 Camaro to the tune of $500 repair back in 1988. I was an unhappy high school kid with a minimum wage job at the time not living at home.

long_tall_texan · **Posted:** Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:13 am

Well, I took them off today. Updated post #1 with all the info.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 904#415904

Treadwright Retreads Review - Updated Post #1 - 3-18-09

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