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 Post subject: Importing a European Diesel Wrangler Unlimited
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:09 pm 
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I want to shift this thread over. I'll start the ball rolling by guessing that ALL you have to do is pass US inspection and US emissions for the year of manufacture. For kit cars that's usually it. Theoretically, you can practice fuel formulas and mods with your KJ CRD (same engine) before you begin the process.

What else needs to be modded to pass inspection. Safety Equipment? Or is it all about emissions?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:15 pm 
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The safety equipment should all be the same on that model I would imagine.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:34 am 
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OK then it is just emmision? That's EASY. Some BioD and additives can make it pass most tests.

We just need the specs on 2007 emission standards. Anybody?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:18 pm 
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I dont have any specs for you, but I wonder, since the darn things are made here, would there be a way to get one before it is exported in the first place? It would sure save a lot of money. Maybe work with a dealer overseas but just change the destination of the vehicles shipment?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:14 pm 
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I really like the way you guys think. I'm going to talk to my father-in-law about this. He managed to get an E-spec BMW X3 for my uncle. And he works for Mack, so he should know the 2007 diesel emissions specs. I'll see him tomorrow and post my findings.

There has been speculation about some hidden American law against diesel engines in convertible vehicles. I doubt the validity of this speculation, but felt compelled to search nonetheless. I have not been able to find anything specific on it. Anyone else ever heard anything about it?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:42 pm 
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You could buy a convertible H1 with a diesel.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:51 pm 
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True dat! Rumor dispelled! I recall the speculation coming from someone when I asked (on another forum) about a TDI convertible Beetle (which I would love to have for my wife).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:54 am 
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Jeger wrote:
You could buy a convertible H1 with a diesel.

The H1 went out of production this past August. AM General is now building them strictly for the military. You could always buy a surplus HMMWV, but they are too big (wide) to (practically) wheel. Unless you are into mud...I wouldn't go out into the woods with one and not have a chainsaw to cut down the trees that you would run into.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:53 am 
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Tera Flex has a JK with a 2.8 CRD in it....It was one of DC's test mules. Pop the hood, looks just like our KJ.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:13 pm 
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Here's the rules from the NHTSA -

Under 49 U.S.C. § 30112(a), a person may not permanently import into the United States a motor vehicle manufactured after the date that an applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standard (FMVSS) takes effect unless the vehicle complies with the standard and is so certified by its original manufacturer. This prohibition applies to both new and used motor vehicles, but does not apply to motor vehicles that are at least 25 years old.

Under one of the exceptions to this prohibition, found in 49 U.S.C. § 30141, a motor vehicle that was not originally manufactured to comply with all applicable FMVSS can be lawfully imported into the United States, provided it is determined eligible for importation by NHTSA, and is imported by a registered importer, or by a person who has a contract with a registered importer to bring the vehicle into compliance with all applicable FMVSS following importation. Import eligibility decisions can be made either on the initiative of the Administrator or on the petition of a manufacturer or registered importer. One basis for determining a motor vehicle eligible for importation is that it 1) is substantially similar to a motor vehicle of the same model year that was manufactured for sale in the United States and certified by its manufacturer as complying with all applicable FMVSS and 2) is capable of being readily altered to comply with all applicable FMVSS. See 49 U.S.C. § 30141(a)(1)(A). Where there is no substantially similar U.S.-certified motor vehicle of the same model year, a vehicle can only be determined eligible for importation if its safety features comply with, or are capable of being altered to comply, with all applicable FMVSS based on destructive test information or other evidence NHTSA decides is adequate. See 49 U.S.C. § 30141(a)(1)(B).

Here's the EPA's requirements can be found here -http://www.epa.gov/otaq/imports/factmnb.htm#nonusversion

From what I remember, you have to post a bond equal to the value of the vehicle until it is brought in to all Federal regulations. It's pretty foggy, but it's not easy to bring in a non-complying vehicle unless it's 21 years old.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:44 pm 
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Wow, nice info KJNick! Thanks!

Jeger was just pointing out that you could have (prior to model being axed) purchased a convertible H1 to negate the rumor that I brought up that there was some arcane American law/regulation against a diesel motor in a convertible vehicle.

There are a few test diesel Jeeps/Dodges running around the country, but we're not getting them. They are test-mules and development vehicles. I think Daimler/Chrysler is done giving us diesels until after ULSD is fully rolled out across the country. Then we'll see what they give us. I don't think it will be a bunch of models at the same time. I figure we'll get the Grand for a year or two, then either the Commander or the Compass or Patriot, depending on the success of the Grand. If the first two go well, then we'll get the others. I'll bet the Wrangler is the last model we see a diesel in on our shores. :-(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:05 pm 
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I wouldn't count on it. I think there is enough demand for a diesel Wrangler, maybe offered only as a Rubicon-only option. Less concern for a vehicle fire than gas in a roll over.

You would see a diesel JK before you will see another Liberty diesel. Liberty will disappear in a few years with the Patriot/Compass and the 4-door Wranglers in the lineup in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:33 am 
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NU ARTY BOY wrote:
I think there is enough demand for a diesel Wrangler, maybe offered only as a Rubicon-only option. Less concern for a vehicle fire than gas in a roll over.


I was thinking about the very same thing the other day (diesel in a Rubicon). They only made the diesel engine an option in the Limited and Sport models of the Liberty. I think they are (or were at least) hesitant to put a diesel in the "off road" version of the Jeep (for America). I don't know why, 'cause I can't think of a better engine for off-roading with, but that's what they did with the KJ. I haven't seen (or noticed at least) a big changing-of-the-guard at DC that would warrant a change in that attitude, which is why I have the sad feeling that the last diesel optioned Jeep we'll be able to buy in America will be the Rubicon. I hope I'm wrong, because I will buy one the day they are available, but that's what I fear based on DCs global choices thus far.

NU ARTY BOY wrote:
You would see a diesel JK before you will see another Liberty diesel. Liberty will disappear in a few years with the Patriot/Compass and the 4-door Wranglers in the lineup in my opinion.


I couldn't agree more. We (05 and 06 owners) have the only diesel Liberties that will ever exist. :cry: Wait, I have one! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:53 pm 
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Ah, ive been wondering where this thread was, I read it before I joined up and then wasnt able to find it again till now.


I've looked into this pretty heavily before but from importing from the other side of the world.
(In Japan vehicles get recylced pretty quick, so in the 300zx world used 300zxs can be had very cheap, while here in the US they have remained high for pricing)

Heres what it comes down to, you must show that the vehicle meets current safety testing, this essentially involves doing your own crash testing for the data, the few companies that have invested in this for exotic cars such as the skyline consider that information proprietary and dont want to freely give it out, so if someone has already obtained this information, it would be helpful, but certainly not free.

Next it must be proven to meet current emissions standards. This is tricky too as it requires quite a bit of testing as well, I have come across one or two companies that had the equipment and in fact where somewhat in the business of doing this.

Lastly it must meet all DOT regs for lighting, this is going to be the easyest to accomplish.

Now all of the above could be arranged by you, but the actual importation and the paperwork has to be done by an RI. A Registered Importer that is willing to take on something like this will be hard to come by because they will have to invest a significant amount of time into the importation of one vehicle, that they may not be able to do again for a profit.

So thats to import it as another other vehicle on the road.



The other way would be to import the body and drivetrain, and I mean front and rear end, tranny, all of it, seperatly, and essentially send along a body, then the two can be reassembled in the US and then issued a bonded title or a homebuilt/kit car title.


You can also import a car for a period of one year for testing and off road purposes only, after that year the vehicle must be exported or destroyed.

The best option that exists is to import the drive train only, and then perform the engine swap into whatever vehicle you want, however if you want a 2007 wrangler with a 2.8 CRD, this is going to be an expensive proposition, your going to need to locate a drivetrain from a KJ overseas, preferably from a wrecked or rolled one so that costs are cheaper, find someone to remove everthing nessesary for the swap, to arrange shipping, and get it exported. Then buy a new JK, rip out your perfectly good drivetrain, and then install the diesel.

What it all comes down to is that it is an expensive and complicated task, trust me Ive thought about it many different ways and schemed many different things.




Now this all becomes more practicle if your willing to go with something a little older.......and maybe not a jeep.


Finding a diesel XJ from europe and then swapping it into a US XJ is a much cheaper solution, but would still require lots of legwork and money.(some of this would be simplified if you were able to source a diesel in mexico, heck if you were able to buy a diesel jeep in mexico then your just about may be able to register it there, and then just drive it across the border, keeping out of country plates on it as you drive around.

The better solution I have come to is going with a nissan turbo deisel, for less than 5k shipped to the US you could have a turbo diesel front clip from either a regulus(pathfinder) or hilux(4 runner), starting with nissan or toyota parts and then swapping them into something like a 2000 would be a cheaper task although plenty complicated, but would require work...and lots of it, it would be a projected only a mechanically inclined person with some balls would want to take on.

What it comes down to is this in my mind......trying to spend under 10k to get an older diesel engine imported and swapped. Or willing to spend upwards of 50k to get a new diesel imported and driving....though at 50k I would rather just buy a new Grand with the CRD.

Theres alot of information out there on the grey market import, and its all very discouraging. Ive been there, done that, and given up.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:46 pm 
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What about military people? If they are stationed overseas and must by a car, are they alowed to bring it back? Just a thought.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:05 pm 
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alpnst wrote:
What about military people? If they are stationed overseas and must by a car, are they alowed to bring it back? Just a thought.


They get inexpensive shipping to bring the car stateside, but they also must face the same importatino red tape we all do, I have known a few people stationed in Japan that bought cars to resell for profit in the US because they face less hurdles in getting them shipped into the US, but a few of them also got in trouble because they pushed the envelope and did too many.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:38 am 
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NU ARTY BOY wrote:
I wouldn't count on it. I think there is enough demand for a diesel Wrangler, maybe offered only as a Rubicon-only option. Less concern for a vehicle fire than gas in a roll over.

You would see a diesel JK before you will see another Liberty diesel. Liberty will disappear in a few years with the Patriot/Compass and the 4-door Wranglers in the lineup in my opinion.



The Libby is Jeeps best seller ever. They sell more KJ's per year than any other vehicle. They have no intensions of stopping production. DC may be dumb, but not that dumb.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:00 am 
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Are you sure?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:19 am 
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We probably won't see a Diesel Commander since they already plan on discontinuing the Commander after 2008. I think the Grand Cherokee will be the only diesel offering for at least the new 3 years. Maybe 2010 we will finally get a Diesel Wrangler.

To import a vehicle and make it worth while...it would have to be something exotic, read expensive, that makes it worthwhile to sell after all the paperwork and modifications. A long time ago you used to be able to bring back one "grey market" car fairly easy but rules have changed.

The best option now would be to get a 2006 Rubicon TJ and slip in the 2.8L CRD. There would be no problems with EPA or anyone else with that mod since the swap would be from a "EPA Certified" engine model into a vehicle of the same age or older.

I think with rising fuel costs we will see in the next year or two, all Auto Makers are going to be rushing around trying to get a hold on "high mileage" and "small diesel" models. The days of $1.99 a gallon are gone and it is time for US makers to retool and give us what I know they can build. I just hope they don't drag thier feet and let foreign makers beat them to the punch.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:10 am 
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DarbyWalters wrote:
We probably won't see a Diesel Commander since they already plan on discontinuing the Commander after 2008. I think the Grand Cherokee will be the only diesel offering for at least the new 3 years. Maybe 2010 we will finally get a Diesel Wrangler.

To import a vehicle and make it worth while...it would have to be something exotic, read expensive, that makes it worthwhile to sell after all the paperwork and modifications. A long time ago you used to be able to bring back one "grey market" car fairly easy but rules have changed.

The best option now would be to get a 2006 Rubicon TJ and slip in the 2.8L CRD. There would be no problems with EPA or anyone else with that mod since the swap would be from a "EPA Certified" engine model into a vehicle of the same age or older.

I think with rising fuel costs we will see in the next year or two, all Auto Makers are going to be rushing around trying to get a hold on "high mileage" and "small diesel" models. The days of $1.99 a gallon are gone and it is time for US makers to retool and give us what I know they can build. I just hope they don't drag thier feet and let foreign makers beat them to the punch.


They will.


Associated Press wrote:


Nissan senses US market for small, cheap cars by Justin Cole
Wed Apr 18, 4:41 PM ET



WASHINGTON (AFP) - Sensing an untapped market, Japanese automaker Nissan is "seriously" mulling the launch of a small car in the United States priced under 10,000 dollars, top executive Carlos Ghosn said Wednesday.


Such a move could trigger a major price war in the world's largest car market, but it would also be a high-stakes gamble due to America's love affair with hulking pickup trucks and sports utility vehicles.

Ghosn, the president and chief executive of Nissan as well as French carmaker Renault, told an audience at the Council on Foreign Relations here that US manufacturers had so far ignored the potential market for cars priced under 10,000 dollars.

"We are looking at it seriously," Ghosn said, adding that he would not be surprised to see an Indian or Chinese firm muscle into the US market pitching cars under 10,000 dollars.

Ghosn spoke after visiting India last month where Renault-Nissan is hunting new markets and amid plans by India's Tata Motors to launch a small car priced at 2,500 dollars.

Nissan employs around 16,000 workers at several US plants and sells a full range of vehicles across America. Renault already sells cars priced under 10,000 dollars in Europe, but has no current presence in the United States.

Big US manufacturers also appear to be sensing a change in the wind.

General Motors, which is struggling to maintain sales domestically in the face of an onslaught from Japanese rivals Toyota and Honda, unveiled the Chevy Spark in India last month priced from around 7,300 dollars.

Most cars and SUVs sold in the United States, however, are priced well above 10,000 dollars.

Ghosn also said that fears about climate change and technological advances were reforming the global car industry, and that Nissan and Renault were driving to build strong partnerships with Indian and Chinese manufacturers.

"Alliances work, but they are very difficult to manage," he cautioned, saying that international auto mergers can be tricky to execute.

Ghosn said he favors building partnership ventures with foreign carmakers, rather than taking them over. He said in January that Renault-Nissan was interested in expanding its US operations by linking up with an American partner.

Nissan's top executive announced meanwhile that the firm plans to sell its first clean diesel cars in the United States in three years to meet accelerating demand for environmentally friendly vehicles.


Ghosn said Nissan's Maxima nameplate would be its first car to be fueled by a clean diesel engine in the United States amid plans to roll out similar models in Japan and China by the same deadline.


Nissan did not release any details on the engine's fuel efficiency potential, but diesel engines generally get markedly more mileage than petrol engines.

Toyota and Honda are also gearing up their green offerings in America, as are US automakers such as Ford which sells the hybrid Escape sport utility vehicle.

"It's a kind of bet you are making that fuel standards will tighten and fuel costs will climb," Ghosn said of the Maxima project.

The seasoned auto chief, credited with turning around Nissan in recent years, said it's clear that "consumers want environmentally friendly cars."

The clean diesel engines will be jointly developed by Nissan and Renault, which each own stakes in one another, and be made in Europe.

Nissan is also investing heavily in fuel cell, hybrid, bio-fuel and electric vehicles.

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