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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:57 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:34 pm 
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OK.... silly question.

I'm looking at getting a 2006 Liberty CRD. I've heard people say that the engine runs a lot quieter on biodiesel....

True / False? (or don't care...)

Thanks,

Stuart


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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:13 pm 
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Everything runs quieter on Bio... in my experience. Been running B-100 in summer and dino in winter. Cummins, TDI, CRD, JD, IH, Ditch witch, All run quieter. Absolutly no fuel related problems ever in 7yrs running homebrew.


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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:44 pm 
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I run B99 at home (Seattle) and I certainly have no problems. When doing so my fuel mileage is down a bit, but it runs so quietly and smoothly I dont mind. I took a road trip to Phoenix recently. My first tank (B99) got me 31mpg. My second tank diesel got me 36.5 mpg. There is a difference, but its not a big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:35 pm 
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Anyone else run B99? I run B50 in the summer and B20 in the winter here in Michigan....HJ

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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:47 pm 
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Location: Gateway to the Canadian Shield Minnesota
B99 summer B20 winter

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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:28 pm 
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truckbouy2 wrote:
B99 summer B20 winter


At what point do you switch? A certain temperature?

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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:23 am 
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Usually here in the state where nothing is allowed, the winter blends start showing up and taking over in october in the frozen north. I don't make my own bio d this is commercial bio.

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 Post subject: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:54 am 
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Well, I hope this with Biodiesel moves forward.

In Sweden where I live, about 60% of new cars are diesel, so demand is high. Most fuel stations' standard diesel in the pumps is now B17-B25. Might be more in the future.

Looking at some comments earlier in the thread, two advantages with the commercial biodiesel made and sold in Sweden is that:
(a) we have absolutely no shortage of freshwater in Sweden
(b) our biodiesel is made out of forestry leftovers (scrap wood, leaves, brush etc) so there is no competition with food production. And we have lots of forest in Sweden.

I would imagine that both points above should apply to at least parts of northern US?


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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:00 am 
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Maccie wrote:
Well, I hope this with Biodiesel moves forward.

In Sweden where I live, about 60% of new cars are diesel, so demand is high. Most fuel stations' standard diesel in the pumps is now B17-B25. Might be more in the future.

Looking at some comments earlier in the thread, two advantages with the commercial biodiesel made and sold in Sweden is that:
(a) we have absolutely no shortage of freshwater in Sweden
(b) our biodiesel is made out of forestry leftovers (scrap wood, leaves, brush etc) so there is no competition with food production. And we have lots of forest in Sweden.

I would imagine that both points above should apply to at least parts of northern US?



Sure it would.... Its realization would be based on profit margin and what the effect is on the environment.

How does it work and how is it produced?

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 Post subject: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:51 pm 
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Well, for the tech details you would have to ask someone else. After looking into it just a little, I will modify what I wrote about sourcing. Swedish biodiesel raw materials apparently includes - apart from the forestry leftover produce I mentioned before - other variants as well, e g paper mill byproducts. But still, there is no conflict with food production.

As for profitability, one major problem (in supporting a transition to new and therefore initially expensive technology and fuels) is that vehicle fuel is so "ridiculously" cheap for you in the US because of your almost nonexisting fuel tax.

In Sweden, as in most Western European countries, gas and diesel costs about the same per gallon, and that is currently around $ 8.20 per gallon. The price difference compared to you in the US being some serious fuel tax.

Thus, what you do to support biodiesel infrastructure investment for a transitional period is that the government gives biodiesel a tax break at the pumps to bring the prices equal. This tax break will be phased out as biodiesel production will become cheaper and fossil diesel inevitably become more expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:45 pm 
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When I was in Vermont in the late 90's there were lots of people making alcohol out of trees to run in their M85 cars. There were fallen tree everywhere, everyone has lots of acres and not really a lot of money. This was when gas was $1.20 per gallon. This is what got me started on Veg Oil and Biodiesel, but I stopped making biodiesel and just started running Straight Vegetable Oil. (SVO) Which by the way my Jeep Liberty loves the stuff. 75k miles on it so far!

The thing that made making your own fuel possible was the government was giving CAFE fuel credits for cars that were M85 compatible. The theory was if the cars were there the supply and demand system would help it grown. Guess what it did not work. It is working a little better with E85 but few people think it is worth buying and it is messing with food production and costs.

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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:35 am 
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Sharon wrote:
I was asking the tech that worked on my CRD and asked about Bio Diesel for the liberty. He said DO NOT use it in the liberty CRD. It would mess up the injector spray and clog it up since the injectors are so so tiny. Has anyone else checked into this. I was hoping i could get the old oil from the restaurants fryers and fliter it and use it in the Liberty CRD. Just like you can do with other diesels :?


Let me preface this by stating that I’ve not read the following 4 pages of comments. I’ll now weigh in:

I just left from working at a Biodiesel refinery where one of the perks was a generous allotment of biodiesel. I ran it exclusively (read: no petro-diesel) from March to October. I blended anywhere from B75 down to B25 through the winter, depending on the forecast (Biodiesel gels at about 32 degrees).

Let others say what they will, but as the person who made biodiesel professionally, it is very quality specific. There are some hoseheads out there who just run waste veggie oil through a filter, or worse, just cheese cloth, and call it biodiesel. If I were to pee in a coffee cup, that doesn't make it Folgers, anymore than filtered WVO is biodiesel.

Biodiesel, TRUE biodiesel, undergoes a chemical reaction. One of the by-products of that reaction is glycerin. There are several methods to be used to remove the glycerin from the product, and all of them are difficult and time intensive. Your mechanic friend, and his reference to gummed up injectors, is referring to bio-refiners who do a poor job of making the biodiesel in the notion that they are not removing the glycerin. Getting glycerin out is challenging, but the ASTM Spec (ASTM 6751) specifies that no more than 0.24% of the finished product is biodiesel.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/biodie ... tions.html

Having said all that, ASK YOUR REFINER if they meet ASTM spec. If they don't meet the spec, drive off. As for me, while I worked at Newport Biodiesel, I used the maximum amount of biodiesel permitted by weather conditions. I never experienced any issues with using it; no clogged injectors, no crud, no failures. I did get a scare when I went too long between fuel filter changes once (The Lib CRD likes to throw codes like “Massive fuel leak”, “Clogged injectors”, etc when, in fact, the filter needs just needs changing). I’d replace the filter every 4-6 months (using ASTM spec biodiesel), and I was fine.

Note: I have used biodiesel for about 30,000 miles now, so I believe we can all agree that is a good track record.

Summary:
-Use only ASTM spec biodiesel
-Change your fuel filter at intervals no longer than 6 months
-If you throw a code that says “Massive Fuel Leak”, or fuel-related, replace the fuel filter. Keep calm; you’ve gone too long between filter changes. Change your fuel filter and clear codes – you’ll be fine.

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Last edited by Rixram on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:39 am 
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racertracer wrote:
B99 - The CRD loves it.


Racer here can vouch for the refinery I used to work at. He, Doc, Striperman and I did a timing-belt change party there in July 2012.

I left in November for a position more conducive to my physical limitations (multiple injuries sustained long ago while in the military).

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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Rixram Thank you for the clarification. I wanted to pick up 5 gals while at the DMV but forgot my container.

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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:36 pm 
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ChooChooman74 wrote:
Rixram Thank you for the clarification. I wanted to pick up 5 gals while at the DMV but forgot my container.

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My pleasure! We need to get another meetup going - one you can make it to. But I seem to recall that you are on work-related travel; is that correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Rixram wrote:
ChooChooman74 wrote:
Rixram Thank you for the clarification. I wanted to pick up 5 gals while at the DMV but forgot my container.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


My pleasure! We need to get another meetup going - one you can make it to. But I seem to recall that you are on work-related travel; is that correct?

I was in Atlanta last time. I work for the railroad so my schedule is day to day. Week to week at best. I may plan a meet n greet during my vaca in June. Still a ways away.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
First off, yes I know I struck a nerve. Secondly, no, your post did not bother me, I've heard all of this before. Two years ago I was a HUGE proponent of BioDiesel. Then my fiance, who is a Zoology major with a focus in Wildlife Ecology as well as a second major in Agriculture and Natural Resource Communications had me chat with one of her Ag professors. He pointed out to me that it is not energy positive, that you spend more fuel for a gallon of BD than the land produces when all factors are considered. I continued researching it after that point and found that much of the government sponsored 'research' on the topic is based on best case scenerios that are not real world. They mostly exist to justify massive subsidies being given to Monosato, Archer-Daniels Midland and General Mills, along with other farm co-ops who see this as thier oppurtunity to become the next big energy power.

Independant research by instutitions not funded by big oil or the government rarely comes out energy positive, at best its about break even(and with Ethanol its always a loser). What that means is that by switching to Biofuels at this point you actually increase our dependence on foreign oil as something has to run the infrastructure that is producing the BD. It becomes less visible to the average consumer of course, but it is just as integral. Furthermore, the water cost is extreme. Perfecting the process has nothing to do with the fact that agriculture and refining take a LOT of water. The US is facing a water crisis in the next 50 years, switching to mass agriculture to feed our appetite for energy will accellerate that dramatically(look up the Great Plains Aquifer, the world's largest, and you'll find out about how dependant we are on it and how fast its dissapearing). When we run out, it will be a return to the dust bowl, and without a saviour. ANd believe me, thats a far worse crisis than running out of oil.

Now, I am not calling on people here to 'do nothing'. You can do something right off simply by driving diesel as its about 30% more efficient than gasoline. Thats a start. Beyond that, what needs to happen is research money needs to be poured into alternative energy projects to find a solution(the algae solution is very promising). There is legislation up now, sponsored by Democratic Congressman Jay Inslee in the House, and Democratic Senator Maria Cantwell in the Senate called the New Apollo Energy Project (details here: http://www.house.gov/inslee/issues/ener ... o_new.html ) that seeks to put the same kind of effort into energy independence that was put into placing a man on the moon. It has the benefit of being 'agnostic' about its approach, its not a vehicle for specific alternative interests like Archer-Daniels Midland, thus keeping our options open for the future. Its also not short sighted on sources like nuclear which will be a necessary component of the future one way or another. Expressing your support for this initiative locally and with your state represenatives would go a LONG way on this issue.

If any of you are serious about these issues, I highly advise you to read *all* the literature on it, not just the astroturfing thats happening where large conglomerates are sponsoring 'independant' websites promoting specific biofuel agendas designed to line thier pockets. Nor those who have never taken a chemistry or physics class and thus do not understand thermodynamics going on about a supposed 'cure' to all our problems. The answers are just not that simple, and they ALL come with a cost.

BTW, the 'outmoded' methods of farming mentioned are the reason we get such high yields. Remove them and you remove the potential energy density of those fields. You can't have your cake and eat it too, it just dosen't work that way.


Reflex, now that I am reading the remainder of this thread (I posted on page 4), I see your post.

I understand you are well-meaning, but please stop with blanket statements such as “biodiesel is produced at an energy defecit” and “biodiesel production is water intensive (paraphrased).”

Biodiesel comes from a multitude of sources. To lay blanket statements such as yours out is disingenuous. I understand that you mean no malice, and neither do I. But I will present you with a counterpoint.

The single most sustainable source of US renewable fuel is Biodiesel made from waste vegetable oil (WVO). The oil would normally (10 years ago) be disposed of, at a cost, by resturants. This WVO was already used for its original intended purpose. Now, that it is then collected and reprocessed into BD represents about an 85% net carbon reduction (on a mile per mile basis). Whereas normal biodiesel, made from virgin oil, only yields a 3:1 efficiency ratio, biodiesel made from WVO is much higher (I *think* it is closer to 8:1, but cannot remember exactly).

And, for those in the know, calendar year 2012 had no tax credits for biodiesel manufacturers. However, the refinery I was with did enough production that they survived the year in the green (no pun intended, but it’d had been a good one if I did). Granted, no one is getting rich, but it is good, honest work for a green industry that puts people to work. In the year I was there, before my leg gave out, they expanded about 40% in employees and increased production by 140%. Oh, and we didn’t use water for our process, aside from the closed-loop heating of the tanks (powered by bio-diesel fueled boilers) and cleaning.

Before you assume that ALL biodiesel manufacturing results in an energy deficit (implied) or water wasteful, make sure you really have researched the topic. It could be that your energy group may be squelching new startup business (read: employment) which generates revenue that stays in your local economy while making use of waste products and provide for a greener way to drive.

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If you're in New England and need your KJ TB done, PM me.

Retired:
Tractor: Dark Khaki '06 CRD Sport, GDE ECO & Trans Tunes, 2.5" lift + 245/75r16. - Sold 27Apr16
Ghost: Silver '06 KJ CRD Limited, bunch of goodies done - Sold 18Apr16


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 Post subject: Re: Bio Diesel for or not for the liberty CRD
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:10 pm 
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FYI - if you note Reflex's avatar label - he's no longer on LOST

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