The dead AUSSIE LOCKER

rickm · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:25 am

why does the worn areas look gold or bronze in color? Is that just light reflection, or is that really bronze or brass underneath? That looks strange.

Mike08Liberty · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:32 am

I think that is just the glow from a light. If you look at all the pics depending on the angle the picture was taken some have an orange glow and others don't.

greatoppressor · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:26 am

Diggerfreek wrote:

The clearances were right on... .008 and .0145.....

Here is the return email I just got

We have discovered a defect is some Chrysler 8.25 carriers where one side of the axle shaft holes are slightly off center. For us to verify the cause of the failure of your locker we need for you to go to www.aussielocker.com on on the left side of the page you will see SERVICES. Click on Contact Us, and then on Talk To Our Engineers. Fill out the form in detail and send it to us. We will assign a technician to your problem, and make arrangements from an RMA to be issued. Because of the nature of the past two failures related to the Chrysler carrier your locker will be sent to an independent consultant for review as to the cause of the failure.
We apologize for any inconvenience you have experienced. We have thousands of Aussie Lockers in daily service for many years with no issues such as you experienced.

So, they are saying that the axle gears weren't concentric with the axle shafts? I guess that kinda makes sense, if they aren't concentric with the shafts, then they aren't concentric with each other and they're going to have an awfully lot of trouble each time they try to re-engage with the cam gears.

On a side note, being as I'm new to the whole 4x4 scene, I think those Aussie locker folks came up with a pretty neat product. I love the way it works. My only concern would be with the constant engaging and disengaging of the teeth on the free-wheeling side (say, the outer wheel of a cornering vehicle). Even though the teeth are engaging/disengaging without being under load, wouldn't that wear off the corners of the teeth after a while? At any rate, the Aussie locker folks claim to have gobs of successful field experience, which should count for something. To your point, though, Digger... I wonder how many of their products are being successfully used in ESP and traction control/BLD scenarios where the vehicle is constantly trying to regulate wheel slip with the brakes?

-SR-

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:28 am

Just light reflection.... I'll get a few shots later on for you in regular light

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:31 am

greatoppressor wrote:

Diggerfreek wrote:

The clearances were right on... .008 and .0145.....

Here is the return email I just got

We have discovered a defect is some Chrysler 8.25 carriers where one side of the axle shaft holes are slightly off center. For us to verify the cause of the failure of your locker we need for you to go to www.aussielocker.com on on the left side of the page you will see SERVICES. Click on Contact Us, and then on Talk To Our Engineers. Fill out the form in detail and send it to us. We will assign a technician to your problem, and make arrangements from an RMA to be issued. Because of the nature of the past two failures related to the Chrysler carrier your locker will be sent to an independent consultant for review as to the cause of the failure.
We apologize for any inconvenience you have experienced. We have thousands of Aussie Lockers in daily service for many years with no issues such as you experienced.

So, they are saying that the axle gears weren't concentric with the axle shafts? I guess that kinda makes sense, if they aren't concentric with the shafts, then they aren't concentric with each other and they're going to have an awfully lot of trouble each time they try to re-engage with the cam gears.

On a side note, being as I'm new to the whole 4x4 scene, I think those Aussie locker folks came up with a pretty neat product. I love the way it works. My only concern would be with the constant engaging and disengaging of the teeth on the free-wheeling side (say, the outer wheel of a cornering vehicle). Even though the teeth are engaging/disengaging without being under load, wouldn't that wear off the corners of the teeth after a while? At any rate, the Aussie locker folks claim to have gobs of successful field experience, which should count for something. To your point, though, Digger... I wonder how many of their products are being successfully used in ESP and traction control/BLD scenarios where the vehicle is constantly trying to regulate wheel slip with the brakes?

-SR-

Yes it is a great design, if it isn't under constant torque like it is in the rear of the KK. They basically took this design for the heavy machine field. Almost all CAT backhoes have this style of lock. However they are not engaged all of the time. As far as wear, you you are going to have a certain amount of wear, but there shouldn't be any chipping at the edges of the teeth.....

greatoppressor · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:13 pm

Diggerfreek wrote:

Yes it is a great design, if it isn't under constant torque like it is in the rear of the KK. They basically took this design for the heavy machine field. Almost all CAT backhoes have this style of lock. However they are not engaged all of the time. As far as wear, you you are going to have a certain amount of wear, but there shouldn't be any chipping at the edges of the teeth.....

Since, my last post I did a little catching up this whole "lunchbox locker" thing. Seems like something I might like to look into someday, but not until I see how well the stock traction control works first.

Seems to me the main drawback of these auto lockers would be their behavior when transitioning between throttle-on and engine braking while cornering. As I envision it, if you coast into a corner (which would be engine braking for anyone with an automatic transmission) the cross axle (which is now the center pin of the locker) will backdrive on the cam gears, which means that the outer shaft transfers the engine braking torque to the ground while the inner shaft is free wheeling; however, as soon as you hit the gas again (say, to accelerate out of the corner), the cross axle now forward loads on the cam gears and the torque is being transfered through the inner shaft while the outer shaft is now free wheeling. So, in this scenario, the inner shaft goes from being unsyncronized with the driveline to being instantly and forcibly syncronized with the drive line. How does it feel when that happens? Do you even notice? Does it cause your inner tire to chirp or anything? Does it cause any lunging or lashing? Is this something my wife would complain about if I had an Aussie locker installed?

Inquiring mind(s) want to know.

-SR-

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:03 pm

You are almost right...... The cross shaft as you put it, it stays stationary in the carrier all of the time. It is bolted in place. The carrier is in constant motion. When you go in to a corner, [b]IF[b] you are out of the throttle which translates to no torsional force being applied to the carrier from the pinion shaft, the axle gears the forcibly push away the cam gears. So in a right hand turn, the right hand axle gear will push away the cam gear to allow the inner tire to slow down. At the same time, the left hand side cam and axle gear are forcibly connected by both spring force and by the right cam gear.

Now, if you are in the middle of a turn and hit the skinny pedal, centrifugal force then forces the locker to reengage because of the torque applied to the carrier....

My head hurts now :lol:

If I should make it simpler for you guys, let me know

greatoppressor wrote:

So, in this scenario, the inner shaft goes from being unsyncronized with the driveline to being instantly and forcibly syncronized with the drive line. How does it feel when that happens? Do you even notice? Does it cause your inner tire to chirp or anything? Does it cause any lunging or lashing? Is this something my wife would complain about if I had an Aussie locker installed?

The feeling depends on what you are doing. If turning, you will hear a pop and you will feel the rear end trying to push. If you are in it, the rear end will over come the bite on the front tires and you will flip a cookie... If changing lanes with a manual KK, if you push in the clutch and let it out half way through, you will feel the rear end wiggle

Yes, you notice it

The tire will only chirp if you get in to the gas hard

The only lashing/lugging I had was when I was lugging the engine such as doing a slow speed u turn in second gear

She might complain to start, but you learn to get use to it and really begin to like it when it works in your favor..

After driving with out it, I can really feel the difference. In some cases, yes I'm glad it is gone, but I do miss it in other cases.......

greatoppressor · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:41 pm

OK. Now I get it. My original assumption was that, during engine braking, the axles gears would be pushing the cam gears against the cross shaft hard enough to keep them engaged, but I guess they just slip instead of back driving the cam gears enough to "wedge" them out against the cross shaft. So, in the end, the cam gears can drive the axle gears (when wedged out by the cross shaft being driven against them by engine power transfered through the carrier via the ring gear and pinion gear), but the axle gears can never back feed torque into the system.

All that being said, does that mean engine braking doesn't work at all? Since torque cannot be reacted out by the engine from wheels wanting to turn slower than the drive train (engine braking), the shafts would just free wheel entirely, right?

-SR-

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:52 pm

In a straight line, you will still have engine braking since neither of the axle gears have sufficient force to over come the cam gears.... But in a cornering situation with an auto, engine braking will become in effective unless you drive it like a manual. Now with a manual in the corners, if you down shift, you will then be creating a "resisting" torque which will keep both sides locked...

The dead AUSSIE LOCKER

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