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Timing belt and Turbo change-out
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=87262		 Page 3 of 7
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
CaptainDean wrote:
Thanks WWDiesel,
If it's more than simply removing the viscous heater & fuse and installing a shorter accessory belt then I'll wait for another time. Getting an unnecessary unit out of the engine compartment is my goal; I like an uncluttered engine.
Thanks for the viscous heater explanation and the offer of part numbers. I'll keep that in mind. For now, I will continue with the timing belt and water pump project.
At the end of today's project, I will have to clean and inspect the boost system. I watched Git It Garage's "Jeep Liberty CRD Diesel EGR Delete" YouTube video. I may have to clean the throttle and ERG area next.
Dean.

Just unplug the viscous heater relay! :wink:

If you want a EGR block off plate, see this thread:> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76576
Simple mod to just block it off until you can get the Weeks Elbow kit that allows total removal of all the EGR crap! :D
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Info on more involved mileage and simplification mods in this thread

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81072&start=20
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Info on more involved mileage and simplification mods in this thread
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=81072&start=20

But keep in mind, that requires doing away with the mechanical fan which not everyone wants to do especially in warmer climates where they are beneficial! :roll:
The viscous heater can be totally removed while keeping the mechanical fan in service by replacing the smooth pulley with a grooved idler pulley in location #1 as shown in the diagram! :wink:
Author:  CaptainDean [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Back to the timing belt...

Got the water pump replaced and put the cam sprockets on and torqued to 80 Ft lbs, with thread locker blue.

The sprockets can be installed facing any direction as long as the teeth are aligned to the belt spacing. Someone must have installed like this with the marks facing each other, with the cam pins installed. Were there any problems?

Image
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Oooh

I'm gonna stay out of this one. My way has worked for me perfectly for 40 years, but it drives the die hard recipe following procedure fanatics in here up the wall.

Their way works fine too, so just go with them on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_uOjVG1XEs
Author:  CaptainDean [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Shortly after posting I answered my own question...
Image
it doesn't work because aligning the arrows directly toward each other does not align the teeth with the belt. The two arrows have to be a half-tooth upward to get the correct spacing across the top of the sprockets. That is probably why VM puts the sprockets on any-which-way to avoid confusing someone.
Author:  CaptainDean [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
After replacing the water pump, I could not find any reason for the old pump to make any noises, and no evidence of parts clanking around inside.

However, I did spin the power steering pump by hand and it made clicking noises. Is this normal? Is it a positive displacement pump with pistons orbiting around a squash plate? At engine speeds, this could be making the clacking-clunking sounds I heard.

Dean.
Author:  TKB4 [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
You Might find or at least narrow down the cause when you do the timing belt service. Start it up without all the accessories while you have front timing cover off and see if it went away. Alternator decoupler pulley or bad serpentine tensioner also common causes. Recently a member had bad harmonic balancer.

I would also closely check the intercooler hoses and turbo to air intake hose though you probably removed later with the turbo change.

Do you have a code such as for underboost? If so vacuum leak or vacuum solenoid the hoses etc shouldn't cause noises but may cause some of the other issues. cracked or loose cv puck line can cause oil film but not likely under the turbo heat shields , maybe exhaust manifold leak .
Author:  TKB4 [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Sorry posted while you were I guess. I never noticed my power steering pump making any particular noise. Sounds like that may be it.
Author:  TKB4 [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
I also put my cam gear sprockets on similar to what your pic shows. They can't be exactly opposite like you said I believe the right will be slightly below the left but I just use it as a reference point to know when the point to place locking pins for future service. I makes no difference for anything else.

Sorry I also must have skipped one of the pages of thread, so you already addressed the hoses.
Author:  CaptainDean [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Not sure if I'm out of the woods yet... turned over the engine by hand and did not feel anything odd. However, at the end of maybe 3 times around, maybe 4, I noticed the fuel distribution pump alignment mark came back into place but the cam marks were 90º offset.

Then I counted teeth and noted something unusual, at least to me.
Crank sprocket has 24 teeth
Cam sprockets have 48 teeth
Fuel distribution pump sprocket has 36 teeth

I have to turn the crank 6 times to get back to normal?

Hmmm...
Crank 1 full turn = cam ½ turn = fuel pump = 2/3 turn
Crank 2 full turns = cam 1 full turn = pump 1-1/3 turns
Crank 3 full turns = cam 1½ turns = pump 2 full turns
Crank 4 full turns = cam 2 full turns = pump 2-2/3 turns
Crank 5 full turns = cam 2 ½ turns = pump 3-1/3 turns
Crank 6 full turns = cam 3 full turns = pump 4 full turns

Did I calculate this right?

Actually, by lining up on the fuel pump...
Fuel pump 1 turn = crank 1½ = cam 3/4 turn
Fuel pump 2 turns = crank 3 turns = cam 1½ turns
Fuel pump 3 turns = crank 4½ turns = cam 2-1/4 turns
Fuel pump 4 turns = crank 6 turns = cam 3 turns

Dean.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
:CAMPING: :POPCORN:
Author:  TKB4 [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
everything should line up every three turns If I recall but it could be more. As long as you can get them to all align at same time with any number of turns you are OK.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
From an old post, but still applies:

Posted by GDE back in 2011:
Based on the number teeth on the pulleys (24 for crank, 48 for cam and 36 for IP) the pump timing make will line of with the crank every 3 revolutions. However, to get the entire system in the correct timing position it will occur every 6 revolutions (where crank is 90 degrees after TDC, cam pins line up and IP is pointed at the timing mark).

A pump with the wrong timing can lead to lower power and higher noise as posted earlier in the discussion. This is due to the internal pressure wave in the rail. If the wave pulse is not timed with an injection event correctly, the pressure at the injector nozzle might be lower than desired when the injector is energized. This may lead to a lower pilot injection quantity or a missed pilot, thus leading to more combustion noise (typical pilot duration is 180-200 micro seconds). The main injection may have a lower actual injected quantity as well due to out of phase pressure wave (main injection pulse width can range from 200-1200 micro seconds depending on load). These pulse widths are for the Liberty CRD, other common rail applications can be different, depending on injector flowrate, solenoid actuation vs. piezo actuation, number of injections (two pilots, main and post), etc.

This is the original thread if you want to read through it all; it is long with lots of technical back and forth:
> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58007&start=2

:SOMBRERO:
Author:  TKB4 [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Here it goes as clear as i can make it:

The cam gears have 48 teeth but align twice per revolution at 90 degrees past top dead center and 270 past TDC so:

Cam gears align every 24 teeth
crank aligns every 24 teeth
Injector pump aligns every 36 teeth

They all align every 72 teeth or 3 revolutions of the crank.
Author:  CaptainDean [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
GordnadoCRD wrote:
:CAMPING: :POPCORN:

:5SHOTS:
Author:  CaptainDean [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Started the beast up tonight for about 30 seconds. It sounds good, no clattering parts. (Accessory belt not installed to drive the power steering pump) Afterward, I noticed the timing belt adjuster indicated a little loose, so I will adjust that tomorrow. I'll start it again afterward to make sure the adjustment holds.

This is a good exercise to run the engine and normalize the parts.

Dean.
Author:  CaptainDean [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Who is a good source for a power steering pump? Looking for a new one, or a reliably re-manufactured pump. I see that Crown is a source to avoid.

Dean.
Author:  TKB4 [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
Not sure about power steering pump I would try one of the mopar online stores or rock auto it may be the same as one of the gas models. The timing belt tensioner almost always needs to be re-tensioned after just turning engine by hand a few times so i guess after running if it wasn't already re=tensioned it would also.

Another point that you may not know. The timing tensioner is bolted into a helicoil from the factory. I had one come out, I replaced it with a stud so I would not be screwing in and out of the helicoil any more, I believe it came out because prior owner torqued it too high during previous work but at least one person reported on here that on first drive after timing belt change his tensioner came loose and bent rockers etc.
Author:  CaptainDean [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing belt and Turbo change-out
TKB4 wrote:
...I would try one of the mopar online stores or rock auto...

The timing tensioner is bolted into a helicoil from the factory. I had one come out, I replaced it with a stud so I would not be screwing in and out of the helicoil any more, I believe it came out because prior owner torqued it too high during previous work but at least one person reported on here that on first drive after timing belt change his tensioner came loose and bent rockers etc.


Thanks TKB4,

Yikes! about the tensioner coming loose. This Jeep seems to have not been taken apart before; all the bolts are shiny-new below the heads. I hope that loosening and re-tightening the bolt with thread locker blue will not loosen the Helicoil.

Dean.
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