Hey guys,

I'm getting set to buy snow tires and am torn between the Blizzak W965 and the DM-Z3... The DM-Z3 is essentially an SUV tire, while the W965 is a light truck tire. The load ratings are about 2000# per tire for the DM-Z3 and about 2700# per tire on the W965. The W965 gets slightly better reviews for snow and ice traction, but many of those reviews are from people driving 2500's and 3500's - I don't know if I'll get similar performance out of them in a vehicle that weighs about 4500# rather than 6500#. That being said, Tire Rack and Discount Tire both show the W965 as appropriate equipment for the 08KK. Money is not big deal on this on as there is only a $25 difference per tire.

Also - anyone know if I can run a 215/85 R16 on the stock rims?

What do you guys think?

I did some searching and found that the rim range for 215/85/r16 is 5.5" to 7" so if you have the 16x7 stock rims you should be ok. Although I don't think I would go with a tire that narrow personally. Also got the warning: "It is recommend staying within 3% of the diameter of the original tire. Any more than this and you face the risk of brake failure." I'm not really sure why, but that popped up when I was doing a comparison of the stock kk tires with your tire choice.

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2008 Jeep Kk North addition 6 speed manual
debadged, mopar sport utility bars, jeep green.
mopar rear cargo liner for the dogs.

hmmm... 215 is about 96% of 225... pretty close - but brake failure doesn't sound good. I'm looking at the 215's for the added snow/ice traction... Smaller patch, higher PSI and so forth...

Im sure that "3%" thing works both ways as well, people put tires on that are wider all the time right? Im thinking that it might have to do with the extra weight of a wider tire, might cause a brake failure, I cant see how putting a narrower tire on will have any effect. It sounds like you are running a 225 on the same rim that im running a 235, thats a difference of 5% width and thats from the manufacture, because we are both running stock tires. So occording to that warning, one of us is going to have brake failure i would just disregard it.

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2008 Jeep Kk North addition 6 speed manual
debadged, mopar sport utility bars, jeep green.
mopar rear cargo liner for the dogs.

Turns out the 215/85/R16 is only available in the W965, which I'm thinking is a little heavy for this application. While it might wear a little slower on the highway miles, I'm concerned that I won't achive the pressure nessesary to really get good grip on the slick stuff...

I've got a quote here for the DM-Z3 n a 225/75 R16 for about $132 per tire, all in. I've seen some internet rates for much less, but when I go through the order process and add the shipping and install cost I get to about $140 every time.

What do you guys think about my tire choice?

Just to let you know there is no such thing as a "SUV" tire,you got "P" rated tires(passenger car) or "LT" rated tires(Light Truck),then you go to the truck tires,no "SUV" rated tires.

Is your Jeep a passenger car or a light truck,the answer should be plan as day(LT) .

You're right - there is no SUV designation... would have to disagree with you on the other part though, as in terms of load capacity, the jeep is much more a passenger vehicle (GVWR 5600#) than a light truck (GVWR 9000#). The applciations are vastly different, and I know this as I use the jeep for tooling around and my 2500 for actual work. The snows going on the 2500 are LT235/80R17's.

There are many trucks out there that don't even come close to GVWR of 9000lbs,and there still trucks.A Jeep is closer to a light truck then a passenger car,now a crv is a car,as is the passport since both are built on a car platform,Jeeps are not(except patriot and compass).If you want weak and unstable passenger car tires on your Jeep that is fine with me but a LT tire is much better suited since it will give a better and much safier ride then a "P" rated tire.

Oh and my KJ is past the 5600lbs max GVWR with me sitting in it,heck it's 5500lbs right now and no problems since I have "LT" rated tires to handle the weight.

I could see that in an AT tire - am concerned about snow/ice traction and not being in the normal operating range for the tire... I don't have a ton of stuff hanging off mine, and drive around with it empty most of the time.

Just remember that stock 4wd KJ/KK is about 4000lbs,more if you have OEM skids,that's about 750-1000+lbs more then most cars today that are on the road.

Passport is an Isuzu truck with a bulletproof drivetrain and an H on the grille. I think you're thinkin Pilot

Whoops,yes I ment the pilot,though the passport isn't worth a darn,a fwd with rwd assist so called cross over.

No doubt... but light duty rucks are not similar to Jeeps - I think you're thinking of compact trucks like the Toyota Tacoma, etc... most of which, although maybe not all, come stock with P rated tires. For instance, I'm pretty sure that the stock tire on the Tacoma is the Dunlop Grandtrek AT20 P245/75R16

What I'm trying to figure out is whether I will benefit in terms of either traction or durability by going with the heavier duty tire - I figure it's got to fall into one of four catagories:

1> Snow/ice traction is as good. Lifespan is improved.

2> Snow/ice traction is worse. Lifespan is improved.

3> Snow/ice traction is as good. Lifespan is the same.

4> Snow/ice traction is worse. Lifespan is the same.

Only in the first instance would I get the LT tires... I wouldn't trade traction for lifespan - and my main concern is that the heavier tire will use a harder compound that won't move properly under what would always be a super-light load relative to its service catagory. My secondary concern is that the heavier tire, even if it performes exactly the same, will not translate into significantly longer lifespan.

Also, just for the sake of conversation, while I'm sure you have modified your KJ making use of components that would raise the GVWR, just putting LT tires on my stock KK will not make it safe to drive over the GVWR. This is implied when you compare the GCWR's of a jeep and a light truck... While GVWR is about 5600 and 9000 respectively, the GCWR is 9800 and 24000 respectively - indicating the use of heavier suspension, brake and drive components.

My opening comment about the tire being "essentially an SUV tire" was based on the tires load capacity of about 2000 lbs... x4 = >5600. Therefore, it could be said that it was designed for a vehicle larger than your normal passenger car, even though it is a P rated tire. I'm pretty sure this is the same condition you describe in the post I quoted.

Does anyone know if a LT snow tire will perform correctly under a very light load, and whether I can expect longer service from the tire than I would get out of a similar P rated tire?

thanks guys...

They will preform better,better handling and take more abuse then a "P" rated tire.Yes on the lonnger life if you have the correct PSI and a good alignment and do your tire rotations at least every 5000miles.Just becuase it's labeled a "LT" tire does not mean it is made out of harder rubber.

Passport has a D44. it's identical to the Rodeo.

Well, since you said so...

You're right about the rubber. Bridgestone was able to confirm that the compound is the same, although the tread depth is only 1/32" deeper on the LT vs. the P. Even so, since that's the same compound, I should expect better snow/ice traction, not with the LT specifically, but with the narrower tire... And the LT is available in that 215/85R16... One potential issue - that tire is about 1.1" greater in diameter. I know the KK comes with up to 18" rims, but I understand those limit performance, and I don't know what the overall diameter of the wheel is on that setup anyway...

Do you guys know if that will fit without any modification? I have a test -fit scheduled for this afternoon anyway, but I'm not sure how I'm going to really check the clearance on the whole suspension range.... Other than to maybe go hit some speed bumps at 10 mph.... Would rather not have to find out that way though! What do you guys think?

Edit: I found out the 18" rim/tire combination (235/60R18) is actually .18" smaller in overall diameter than the stock 225/75R16. Whodathunkit...? Good news is that this indicates that suspension travel and fit is not related to the offroad performance issues associated with the 18" wheel... Must be the tire selection.... Anyway - I'll be over to test shortly... Will let you know how it goes.

Edit#2: Someone over at another site brought up chainspacing as evidence that the 30.38 will work in place of the 29.28... Any thoughts on that idea?

Nobody is up for a technical discussion of snow tires?

Everyone subscribes to tdkj2002's advice, without any explaination of his statements?

really?



okay, be that way...