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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:45 pm 
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murrari wrote:
I'm just catching up on the madness. Looks like we are still waiting on the return of Messiah Mtnluvr


Messiah, Mtnluvr is a friend of mine. I usually meet up with him annually. My guess is that he has no plans to return in the capacity that people are hoping. His detailed bumper(s), as Tom has already noted, would be very expensive. I'm not going to mention numbers on here, but I know that pricing (if sold) would have been higher than what most people would be wanting to pay. It is my belief, through the development process, that Mtnluvr learned that these bumpers could only be built and sold at significantly higher prices than what he had originally projected. Plus, he became very busy with his personal life and work, priorities changed, and the entire project got shelved. I'm not saying that he won't come back with a business plan, pricing, etc., but at this point in time, I don't foresee that happening anytime soon. Mtnluvr is a good guy and does things with fidelity. If he can't do something the way he wants it, then he wont do it at all. You can tell by his bumpers, he's not one to take shortcuts.

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Last edited by dieselenthusiast on Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:46 pm 
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LOVE ROCK LIZARD front bumper I get stop everyday by people who like it


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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:10 pm 
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dieselenthusiast wrote:
murrari wrote:
I'm just catching up on the madness. Looks like we are still waiting on the return of Messiah Mtnluvr


Messiah, Mtnluvr is a friend of mine. I usually meet up with him annually. My guess is that he has no plans to return in the capacity that people are hoping. His detailed bumper(s), as Tom has already noted, would be very expensive. I'm not going to mention numbers on here, but I know that pricing (if sold) would have been higher than what most people would be wanting to pay. It is my belief, through the development process, that Mtnluvr learned that these bumpers could only be built and sold at significantly higher prices than what he had originally projected. Plus, he became very busy with his personal life and work, priorities changed, and the entire project got shelved. I'm not saying that he won't come back with a business plan, pricing, etc., but at this point in time, I don't foresee that happening anytime soon. Mtnluvr is a good guy and does things with fidelity. If he can't do something the way he wants it, then he wont do it at all. You can tell by his bumpers, he's not one to take shortcuts.


I can completely understand this. But if he has no plans to sell them due to the reasons you listed, then why not release a pattern for others to copy? He has, hands down, the very best design for a KK bumper anywhere. I just wish he wasn't keeping it all to himself.

:(

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:17 pm 
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So would you put hundreds of hours into a project, lots of money etc and just give it away fro free? He may someday decide to come out and start making them.
If you want a bumper and have a way to weld up the parts then it should be no problem to make up your own design for yourself or at least that my thoughts on it.

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:29 am 
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tommudd wrote:
So would you put hundreds of hours into a project, lots of money etc and just give it away fro free? He may someday decide to come out and start making them.
If you want a bumper and have a way to weld up the parts then it should be no problem to make up your own design for yourself or at least that my thoughts on it.



Why not? Thousands of people do that kind of thing all the time. It's called Open Source. The idea is to create something mostly for yourself, but then release it to the community for everyone's benefit. Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with seeking to make a profit on something you have worked on, whether that be an invention or what have you. Nothing wrong with some good old-fashioned capitalism. But just because you put lots of work into something doesn't mean you HAVE TO choose to make a profit on it.

It's clear the mtnlvur made the bumpers pretty much just for himself, and while he may have had some thoughts to market it at some point, he is obviously choosing to take a pass on that opportunity. The useful window for making KK bumpers for the aftermarket is closing anyway as the KK goes out of production. Why not release it as a gesture of goodwill towards the community? Is there something wrong with that?


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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:53 pm 
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He made them because nobody else would. You have know idea the amount of work and money something like this takes. At this point yeah he made them for himself. There is one more out there on another kk and he still has a couple tacked together for templates. So..... you never know. He has talked about maybe doing something.......... but it won't be giving it away. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:04 pm 
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kskj wrote:
He made them because nobody else would. You have know idea the amount of work and money something like this takes. At this point yeah he made them for himself. There is one more out there on another kk and he still has a couple tacked together for templates. So..... you never know. He has talked about maybe doing something.......... but it won't be giving it away. :lol:


Well of course he wouldn't be giving the bumpers away. That would be silly! :lol:

I'm just saying that it's too bad that once he decided that we wasn't going to market them, that he didn't choose to Open Source the pattern so that other people could have them made for themselves.

Nobody is denying that a CRAP TON of effort and work went into designing and building the bumpers he has. But for some reason some folks seem to think that just because a ton of effort went into creating something, that the designer is then REQUIRED to sell it and that if he isn't going to sell it then the pattern must forever remain locked away.

That's just silly too. He can give away the pattern if he wants. I (obviously) would like it if he did. Ultimately that's his decision. If he wants to hold onto it forever so he can be the only person with those bumpers, then that is his prerogative. If he decides to Open Source the pattern so that the community can benefit from his hard work, well then that's his prerogative too. I'm just voicing my opinion on what I would like to see him do. That's all.


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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:43 pm 
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I was not talking about giving away bumpers. LOL I do not know the numbers but I would bet he has well over 10,000 in it. And you want him to give that away. I think they might get out as Cad drawings not patterns someday. Just not sure when and how he will want to do it. But I know he won't give them away.

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:07 pm 
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There are other options too. I couldn't see having that kind of investment in something and not profit from it somehow. Copyright and sell drawings for someone to make their own but that could lead to a person making them for other people cutting the money made. He could license them for someone else to make them and take either a percentage or outright sell the design or lease it annually. There are probably a bunch of ways to do it but it's kind of a mute point. The KK is only 5 years old so there probably aren't very many people taking them off road yet. The market is still small but I think it'll grow as the KK becomes more affordable.
I'm no saying he should do anything, that's his business. That front bumper is gonna cost a but load of money to make with all of the water jet cuts, unless the person making it owns the machine. Not to mention the fixture that holds it together for welding won't be cheap either. I'd like to see more stuff going into production but it isn't likely to happen, the liberty is very underappreciated in the 4wd community right now. It'll probably get better when they design ifs for the wrangler and the bonehead mechanics learn how to work on them. :2cents:

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:56 pm 
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I was hoping for a happy ending to this post, new to the jeep world, absolutely love what hes done with the liberty. I hope that these get made one day.


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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:29 pm 
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I was waiting on mtnluvr s bumper too, but then ATH came out with his bumper. His is great quality and would probably be cheaper than mtnluvr's. His did look pretty best though.

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:49 am 
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We all were waiting for his stuff. Hope he is doing good and enjoying life.


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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:53 am 
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any chance of you releasing a detail drawing of the front bumper?


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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:58 am 
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He's said no in the past.


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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:10 am 
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Yeah, definitely don't see that happening. I don't even think he posts here anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:20 pm 
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well that sucks.... it was a pretty good looking bumper


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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:46 am 
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Yeah, it is.

Just wish he would at least sell the plans for it. I really loved how faithful he was to the more rectilinear look of the stock KK bumpers. He just absolutely nailed the right style for those that like the look of the KK stock bumper, but don't like how low down it hangs.

Don't get me wrong, I love ATH's bumpers too, but the triangular "high corner" look just doesn't do it for me. I don't rock crawl and probably never will, so that kind of crazy high corner clearance just isn't needed. Rocklizard's was a bit less "triangular" on the ends than ATH's, but they borked up the turn signal design, (Put in gigantic "Mickey Mouse ear" solid steel blanks to fill in the turn signal spot) sold a tiny handful of them and then bailed on the KK and stopped making them rather than revise their design.

If only a major manufacturer would come out with something similar to MtnLuvr's design (perhaps in a simpler to build pattern?). Honestly, I would even be OK with something that only had a steel center section and had replaceable/swappable thick plastic ABS "wings" to hold the turn signals. Just something to increase the front clearance in a meaningful way, and have a solid mount location for a winch, tow points, brush hoop, lights, etc. while still retaining a "stock-like" look.

At this point though, with the KK out of production and it's smaller numbers starting to age, I'm not expecting anything.


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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:23 am 
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Shame this thread went nowhere, I had high hopes of being able to at least buy the design to have a set manufactured in the UK. Shipping costs & taxes make it prohibitive to buy from the usual outlets.

Thoroughly enjoyed reading most of the content, some great photos & 1 very cool looking Jeep. I would have thought after such a great build-up with as many people engaged & excited as there was the very least the OP could have done was a "sorry guys, lost interest / its a no-go".

Ho-hum, it made great reading for me over the last few days :JEEPIN:

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:12 am 
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Yes, given life circumstances, I no longer foresee that I can get my KK off-road bumpers and sliders into production, even though I spent considerable personal money developing them and even have a company formed. Sorry.

Thus, hoping this fall to contact some existing companies which support the KK after-market to see if they're interested in purchasing my designs and extra bumper set (to be used for setting up welding jigs). I'm not looking to make much on the sale, but rather prefer the designs to go to where I think most likely they'll actually make it to the after-market. If no traction there, then I'll open the offer up to individuals.

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 Post subject: Re: MtnLuvr's (Declassified) Off-Road Bumpers and Rock Slide
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:31 am 
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MtnLuvr wrote:
Yes, given life circumstances, I no longer foresee that I can get my KK off-road bumpers and sliders into production, even though I spent considerable personal money developing them and even have a company formed. Sorry.

Thus, hoping this fall to contact some existing companies which support the KK after-market to see if they're interested in purchasing my designs and extra bumper set (to be used for setting up welding jigs). I'm not looking to make much on the sale, but rather prefer the designs to go to where I think most likely they'll actually make it to the after-market. If no traction there, then I'll open the offer up to individuals.


Hopefully a good company picks them up. JBA might be a consideration if you haven't contacted them yet.

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