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 Post subject: AT THE HELM FRONT RECOVERY SYSTEM (updated)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:18 pm 
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I want to see if there would be any interest from anyone on here for a new front recovery system i've been thinking about. It would be perfect for someone who wants a front hitch for a winch plus shackles instead of the factory tow hooks. As some of you know, the kk's tow hooks come with a flimsy 'm' bolt that has been known to tear out of the unibody frame rails. This would mount to the same location but have a nut rail that will spread the load a lot more from the extra surface area, thus making it much stronger. It would be made of square structural steel and 1/4" angle on the mounts.

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My reasoning behind this is to give people who wheel their kks something better than the oem tow hooks but also not making the jump to a full steel winch bumper.
Let me know your feedback: good/bad/suggestions.

I won't even begin to prototype this for a while though because i have bumper orders that need to be finished first.

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Last edited by Atthehelm on Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:43 pm 
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If I wasn't looking into getting a new bumper in a year or two, then I would be interested. If you designed this, would it interfere with front approach angle?

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:43 am 
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No it would not. It would require removing the plastic air vent between the tow hooks. I don't think it wiil stick out at all, but i couldn't say for sure until i build one.

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:58 am 
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im definitely interested to have that setup ..be nice to have a decent recovery point without all the added weight of a steel bumper so please keep me posted man

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:43 am 
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I havn't had a chance to test them yet, although we're supposed to get 3 ft of snow on Friday. I put these in about 6 months ago. Basically dropped 2 10" bolts down through the front of my frame and drilled through 2 solid steel tow receivers that the D-rings fit onto. Took A LOT OF finnegaling to get them to sit right. I had to take a few pieces of steel to space the recievers far enough down to make sure they sit below the plastic

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:09 am 
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Good job. Bet that was fun drilling those holes, i can see how being off a small fration of an inch would equal a lot of finnegling.

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:30 am 
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Keep us posted on this, it's nice to see a member actually getting out there and fabricating for the KK.

Oh on a sidenote, I was bored in class today so I was on instagram and some person posted a pic of your front bumper saying something along the lines that 1 day they will have it. I'm guessing it was a kid my age, he had a few pics of the Jeeps I know from forums and the Island on it and was planning how he was going to build his KK.

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:16 am 
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I would absolutely be interested in this

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Atthehelm, bravo for fabricating cool and functional KK stuff! :rockon: Your bumpers rock, and I may have my eye on one of those eventually. Right now the lift and the tires would take precedence over a bumper in my KK build.

In terms of the recovery points/front hitch idea, I think there would be some interest from folks who might not want to go as far as a dedicated winch bumper or a Detours Backbone. Personally I would pass on the mod, but that's only because I already spent the time to remove my bumper and install stud plates to reinforce my tow hooks, replacing the weak M bolts. (M-bolts were such a bad design!) I'm also ultimately thinking of getting a winch bumper, which would make your proposed mod obsolete for me. I think the typical LOST member likes the idea of a winch bumper, but may not have the :2cents: , so you may have something here.

Winch bumpers seem to be at least ~$750-850 these days, and the Detours Backbone is ~$350. I think you'd have to position your system to be in the $150-200 range and make it pretty easy to install (as much bolt-on as possible using existing holes, and a minimum of cutting of the bumper), but also not sacrifice strength, to give it a significant advantage over the Detours Backbone and have your own distinct product niche.

I wish you the best of luck if you decide to build it! It would be a fun challenge to create it, in any event.
--LFH

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:33 pm 
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I think I have a cad drawing here of something similar a guy in Australia fabbed up and shared.

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:02 am 
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lfhoward wrote:
Atthehelm, bravo for fabricating cool and functional KK stuff! :rockon: Your bumpers rock, and I may have my eye on one of those eventually. Right now the lift and the tires would take precedence over a bumper in my KK build.

In terms of the recovery points/front hitch idea, I think there would be some interest from folks who might not want to go as far as a dedicated winch bumper or a Detours Backbone. Personally I would pass on the mod, but that's only because I already spent the time to remove my bumper and install stud plates to reinforce my tow hooks, replacing the weak M bolts. (M-bolts were such a bad design!) I'm also ultimately thinking of getting a winch bumper, which would make your proposed mod obsolete for me. I think the typical LOST member likes the idea of a winch bumper, but may not have the :2cents: , so you may have something here. kind of what i was thinking. Shipping on the bumpers is brutal, like $225 so they come out to like $1k

Winch bumpers seem to be at least ~$750-850 these days, and the Detours Backbone is ~$350. I think you'd have to position your system to be in the $150-200 range and make it pretty easy to install (as much bolt-on as possible using existing holes, and a minimum of cutting of the bumper), but also not sacrifice strength, to give it a significant advantage over the Detours Backbone and have your own distinct product niche. The detours backbone is a cool product, but it requires hacking up the front bumper which i know a lot of people would be weary of. This would definitely keep the stock look and make for an easy install. It would require removing the front bumper to access the unibody frame openings but that would be the hardest part. It would most likely require drilling a couple new holes but shouldn't be a big deal.

I wish you the best of luck if you decide to build it! It would be a fun challenge to create it, in any event. Thank you.
--LFH

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:05 am 
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Very creative, sir. Looks promising. Seems like this is such a good idea and should be an aftermarket part already being made... but we have KK's :grim: If I were more serious about off roading, I'd be interested. I'm working with just the dual front two hooks and single rear for now mainly for that reason.

I really think you're on to something here, and you seem to have flourishing ideas. I think if the price is right, you'll sell a few of these. Would love to do business with ya one day if I find a product of yours I get hooked on.

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 Post subject: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:09 pm 
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Atthehelm wrote:
Good job. Bet that was fun drilling those holes, i can see how being off a small fration of an inch would equal a lot of finnegling.

Lol you have no idea. I can't wait til my buddy is done with welding school. Finally gonna put some of these designs to the test. If anyone is interested in putting tow hooks on your kk. It's literally alllllll finegaling to get them to sit right. The stock front bumper wasn't designed to have them hang from it so I bought a peice of 1/4 plate steel, cut it into equal sections, and drilled 2 holes through each one in addition to drilling through both tow hook receivers. (And yes they are solid steel. They're standard 2" receivers that are adapted for tow hooks). It's a lot of drilling and cutting.


Sent from my iPhone 5

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:16 am 
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Quicky wooden mock up i made at work. Its going to have to be 3"x3"x1/4" square structural tube, 3/4" thick shackle mounts, standard 2" id receiver, 1/4" gusseted mounts, and most likely 8 bolted points which are the tow hook holes and four in the crossmember with heavy backing plates. Weight around 35lbs. Don't comment on the paint color its for demonstration purposes. I'll get a pic of it in position on the Jeep soon.
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 Post subject: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:42 am 
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Nice,this is what I've been asking for. Made an Offer on Brokendad's KJ front receiver as a starting point to start making one. But I don't weld nearly well enough. So I just might wait and see how yours ends up.


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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:46 am 
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This is nice to see the minds at work. There was a KA owner who put a KJ front hitch on his rig. He used a Curt 31022. He also had to add steel spacers to get it to sit far enough down to not cut the radiator support and front bumper skin. His comes out just below the front bumper. It is a good idea but really restricts the approach angle. He does not wheel, so he didn't care. He just wanted a way to support the front of his 21' kayak. The other issue with the KA is the hole in the front bumper is not as long as the KK. So that is another issue which I need to figure out for my rig.

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:53 am 
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I think I would be more interested in this than a full bumper just because the weight. I like it. Def interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:24 am 
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I would be interested to see how it turns out and what the final cost would be. I think its a good idea because a hitch mounted winch is an option. I would like to see if you have any mounting issues with the cooler down there.


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 Post subject: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Where would it mount chassis?

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 Post subject: Re: Feeler: new kk front recovery system
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:40 pm 
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musclezmarinara wrote:
Where would it mount chassis?

Should but on side note I think this would be a great addition for you muscle since you have the OEM Light bar.


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