LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?

They are twins, built right on the same line here in Toledo
you could watch 5 KKs coming and then a couple of Nitros right in behind, then more Libertys.
I've heard all kinds of wild stories of why the Nitro had the 4 option but drove one would much rather have my 3.7, wasn't impressed

The two share a platform, but not an architecture.

The 4.0L "fits" in the Nitro but not in the Liberty.

It was never engineered for it.

I'm pretty sure that someone could theoretically make it fit, but remember you gotta get wiring harnesses, the W5A580 transmission (NOT the 42RLE), which then has to hook up to the Jeep's transfer case... a new transmission shifter... and much much MUCH more crap. Because the architecture is different, who knows, the mounting points, etc may not even exist in the KK!

It's just a big huge mess. Remember, just because they share a SIMILAR boxy shape doesn't mean that they are the same. A visit to the plant and looking at the differences between the jobs on the two vehicles, and you would understand.

I work at Jefferson North, we build the Grand Cherokee and Durango on the same line. It really irritates me when people say that the Durango is just a reskinned Grand Cherokee.

To them, I go...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Work the line then come back and tell me that.

BTW: The KK was engineered first (really as the KJ, and then warmed over) THEN the KA was engineered. The KA was just LAUNCHED first. At one point, KJ, KA and KK all went down the line together.

It would have just cost way too much money, for only two model years, with the volume that was going to be built, just not worth it.

... plus there's no RWD 6 Speed to put behind the 3.6L.

Marlon_JBT wrote:

It would have just cost way too much money, for only two model years, with the volume that was going to be built, just not worth it.

... plus there's no RWD 6 Speed to put behind the 3.6L.

although they would have to re-certify for emissions and impact.

The Dodge Nitro and KK are basically twins from what I understand.

Why wasn't the bigger engine offered in the KK? I realize the Nitro had it on its performance trim, but the numbers suggest that it really isn't fast.

In a few years, after my KK is paid off and got some miles to her, it would be fun to undertake a motor swap (I realize the electronics would be the hardest part.) Just trying to figure out why an engine that would probably be drop in ready never was.

Is it that the Jeep transfer cases wouldn't fit? I was told the mpg difference is marginal between the 3.7 and the 4.0

cherox wrote:

There's a guy who recently swapped a v8 into his KK. He posted a few pics on JBAs Facebook page. You could always try to contact him for what parts he used.

Sent from my iPhone 5

Author:	cherox [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
The Dodge Nitro and KK are basically twins from what I understand. Why wasn't the bigger engine offered in the KK? I realize the Nitro had it on its performance trim, but the numbers suggest that it really isn't fast. In a few years, after my KK is paid off and got some miles to her, it would be fun to undertake a motor swap (I realize the electronics would be the hardest part.) Just trying to figure out why an engine that would probably be drop in ready never was. Is it that the Jeep transfer cases wouldn't fit? I was told the mpg difference is marginal between the 3.7 and the 4.0

Author:	lfhoward [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
That's what I heard, that there isn't room for the good transfer case with the bigger 4.0 engine in there. At one point I read that some Dodge Nitro owners complained about the bulge in the driver's footwell that is there to accommodate the transfer case in the Jeep, but serves no function in the Nitro! I don't know the particulars, but I think the Nitro was offered with a 4x4 option, but it is only the equivalent of 4 high (no 4-lo setting), so it might be a smaller transfer case on Nitros with the 4x4 and 4.0 engine.

Author:	tommudd [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
They are twins, built right on the same line here in Toledo you could watch 5 KKs coming and then a couple of Nitros right in behind, then more Libertys. I've heard all kinds of wild stories of why the Nitro had the 4 option but drove one would much rather have my 3.7, wasn't impressed

Author:	Cherrie 274 [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
Twins but not Identical. Now low for transfer case. That's why I bought my first non Dodge in 25 + years.

Author:	Scar0 [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
This is from a friend of mine... Bigger is not necessarily better, IMHO. The 3.7 is a Truck Engine. This engine was only available in Jeeps (Liberty, GC) and Dodge Trucks (Ram, Dakota, and Nitro). The 4.0 is a car engine. The only Truck that it was available in was the Nitro. The 4.0 is an off shoot of the 3.5: 24 valves, but only SOHC. Usually, multivalve engines (4 valves/cylinder) are DOHC, so I never understood why Chrysler designed it this way. The 4.0 was offered in the minivans and the Pacifica, but I'm not sure of the availabilty in other cars. The 3.7 has a chain drive for the overhead cams and it never needs to be changed. The 4.0 has a rubber belt for the cam shafts, and I believe that it has to be changed @ 100,000 miles. Another thing I would add to this is, the 4.0 is a front wheel drive engine, turned sideways in the Nitro. Because of this it is very hard to get to some simple parts. ie the thermostat is back against the fire wall. You have to remove the intake manifold to change it. The newer 4.0 is not designed with heavy usage in mind, unlike the tried and true straight 6- 4.0 like I have in my Cherokee.

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Author:	Cherrie 274 [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:21 am ]
Post subject:	Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
Never mind I re read your post different motor.

Author:	Gageraid [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
tommudd wrote: They are twins, built right on the same line here in Toledo you could watch 5 KKs coming and then a couple of Nitros right in behind, then more Libertys. I've heard all kinds of wild stories of why the Nitro had the 4 option but drove one would much rather have my 3.7, wasn't impressed I test drove the 4.0 Nitro and 3.7 0Liberty when I needed a vehicle. Clearly I was more impressed with the 3.7 in the Jeep if it's what I brought home.

Author:	cherox [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
Thanks for the replies guys.. I guess I'm just hoping some day I can have a little more power. Its hard to come by performance upgrades for the 2012 KK because of the CANBUS system. Hopefully the next few years bring about some heavy aftermarket upgrades. I love my Jeep.. It just needs another 30hp+

Author:	JOsworth [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
Since we are asking questions... Why the heck didn't they put the 3.6 Pentistar V6 in the Liberty for the last few years of production. I had the pleasure (LOL) of getting a rental Dodge Caravan with it. Even in that bloated front drive box it was downright quick. I'm sure the Wrangler is a pleasure with it. Hmmm... how hard to do that kind of conversion????? Oh, I know the answer, BTW. The Liberty was planned to be replaced since like 09 / 10 so they were not going to spend a bunch to refresh the drive train for maybe two years production.... But it would have been sweet nonetheless.

Author:	Marlon_JBT [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
The two share a platform, but not an architecture. The 4.0L "fits" in the Nitro but not in the Liberty. It was never engineered for it. I'm pretty sure that someone could theoretically make it fit, but remember you gotta get wiring harnesses, the W5A580 transmission (NOT the 42RLE), which then has to hook up to the Jeep's transfer case... a new transmission shifter... and much much MUCH more crap. Because the architecture is different, who knows, the mounting points, etc may not even exist in the KK! It's just a big huge mess. Remember, just because they share a SIMILAR boxy shape doesn't mean that they are the same. A visit to the plant and looking at the differences between the jobs on the two vehicles, and you would understand. I work at Jefferson North, we build the Grand Cherokee and Durango on the same line. It really irritates me when people say that the Durango is just a reskinned Grand Cherokee. To them, I go... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Work the line then come back and tell me that. BTW: The KK was engineered first (really as the KJ, and then warmed over) THEN the KA was engineered. The KA was just LAUNCHED first. At one point, KJ, KA and KK all went down the line together.

Author:	cherox [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
Marlon_JBT wrote: The two share a platform, but not an architecture. The 4.0L "fits" in the Nitro but not in the Liberty. It was never engineered for it. I'm pretty sure that someone could theoretically make it fit, but remember you gotta get wiring harnesses, the W5A580 transmission (NOT the 42RLE), which then has to hook up to the Jeep's transfer case... a new transmission shifter... and much much MUCH more crap. Because the architecture is different, who knows, the mounting points, etc may not even exist in the KK! It's just a big huge mess. Remember, just because they share a SIMILAR boxy shape doesn't mean that they are the same. A visit to the plant and looking at the differences between the jobs on the two vehicles, and you would understand. I work at Jefferson North, we build the Grand Cherokee and Durango on the same line. It really irritates me when people say that the Durango is just a reskinned Grand Cherokee. To them, I go... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Work the line then come back and tell me that. BTW: The KK was engineered first (really as the KJ, and then warmed over) THEN the KA was engineered. The KA was just LAUNCHED first. At one point, KJ, KA and KK all went down the line together. Great post. Thanks for the insight. Its just frustrating.. The KK is probably the last boxy Jeep to come down the pipeline.. As much as I love all Jeep vehicles, I've always liked their XJ style. My first Jeep after all was a 1989 2 door Cherokee. Would've been perfect if they put the pentastar and 6 speed auto in a 2nd gen KK.. But I get it that the sales weren't great and their focus is to appeal to the market. A market that is currently obsessed with MPGs and crossovers.

Author:	Marlon_JBT [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
It would have just cost way too much money, for only two model years, with the volume that was going to be built, just not worth it. ... plus there's no RWD 6 Speed to put behind the 3.6L.

Author:	ajohns1288 [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
Marlon_JBT wrote: It would have just cost way too much money, for only two model years, with the volume that was going to be built, just not worth it. ... plus there's no RWD 6 Speed to put behind the 3.6L. In hindsight, back in 2010, they should have looked at using the JK powertrain for a few years to give the KL more breathing room. If the W5A580 fits in the KK diesel, I'm sure it would have fit with the 3.6L with a little tweaking, although they would have to re-certify for emissions and impact. If anything else, I now have a great idea for a powertrain swap if I ever win the lotto. I'll even throw in the Rock-Trac T-Case too.

Author:	Marlon_JBT [ Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
ajohns1288 wrote: Marlon_JBT wrote: It would have just cost way too much money, for only two model years, with the volume that was going to be built, just not worth it. ... plus there's no RWD 6 Speed to put behind the 3.6L. although they would have to re-certify for emissions and impact. THAT right there is EXACTLY the problem! Between that, making new parts, etc... It just wasn't worth it. They would have lost money on each one that they sold. Chrysler, these days doesn't lose money on anything, especially NOT my plant where on average, everything that comes off the line at JNAP makes at LEAST $10,000.

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Author:	mawlkrawler [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
cherox wrote: The Dodge Nitro and KK are basically twins from what I understand. Why wasn't the bigger engine offered in the KK? I realize the Nitro had it on its performance trim, but the numbers suggest that it really isn't fast. In a few years, after my KK is paid off and got some miles to her, it would be fun to undertake a motor swap (I realize the electronics would be the hardest part.) Just trying to figure out why an engine that would probably be drop in ready never was. Is it that the Jeep transfer cases wouldn't fit? I was told the mpg difference is marginal between the 3.7 and the 4.0 There's a guy who recently swapped a v8 into his KK. He posted a few pics on JBAs Facebook page. You could always try to contact him for what parts he used. Sent from my iPhone 5

Author:	cherox [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why didnt they put the 4.0 in the KK?
mawlkrawler wrote: cherox wrote: The Dodge Nitro and KK are basically twins from what I understand. Why wasn't the bigger engine offered in the KK? I realize the Nitro had it on its performance trim, but the numbers suggest that it really isn't fast. In a few years, after my KK is paid off and got some miles to her, it would be fun to undertake a motor swap (I realize the electronics would be the hardest part.) Just trying to figure out why an engine that would probably be drop in ready never was. Is it that the Jeep transfer cases wouldn't fit? I was told the mpg difference is marginal between the 3.7 and the 4.0 There's a guy who recently swapped a v8 into his KK. He posted a few pics on JBAs Facebook page. You could always try to contact him for what parts he used. Sent from my iPhone 5 Couldn't find it.. I assume you are talking about Jeepin By Al's page? I only saw the guy who swapped the 4.7HO into his KJ. Would love to see that motor (or the later 2nd gen 4.7 from the 08+ WK) in a KK!