Increase in mpg w/ 4.7L TB

Scar0 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:13 pm

A true CAI like Volant will make a difference as it gets the air from outside the engine bay.
Don't know about the KJ intake but the KK and KA have two 90° bends from grill to the airbox. Eliminate those and your engine will work less to get the air in. = more MPG and HP.

FYI:
Always disconnect Neg (-) first then Pos (+), reconnect Pos (+) then Neg (-)!
NEVER disconnect the Pos (+) with Neg (-) still connected, and NEVER connect the Neg (-) without the Pos (+) already connected.
If you do it backward, you can fry the TIPM, as another KA owner learned the hard way...
Step 1 in the SM is "disconnect the Neg (-) battery cable and wait", for almost everything.

For me it took about 1-2 miles of driving before the ECU learned the 4.7 TB.
I'm still restricted forward of that with the airbox to TB tube. The mold I was making broke and I have not gotten around to fixing it yet. Right now my boat needs attention.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:44 pm

I spent a good 10 minutes going through the rpm band. Wanted to make sure it was properly recognizing the 4.7 TB without a load on the engine.

EDIT:

Current engine bay visual.

My red necked actual cold air intake. Takes in air from the front of the radiator. the tubing is 1.75" ID thick walled and there are 4 tubes. plans for another 2 else where. the white stuff is caulk. its messy currently, im still in the process of sealing up the intake.

Scar0 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:18 am

Make sure you put one down low to drain any water that may get in there. Or make darn sure the built-in airbox drain holes are clear.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:22 am

Scar0 wrote:

Make sure you put one down low to drain any water that may get in there. Or make darn sure the built-in airbox drain holes are clear.

I drilled in 2 half inch holes in the bottom. as an added protection, I wrapped the intake tubes with the air filter sock I bought.

the tubes are close to an inch from the bottom of the air box.

Scar0 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:29 am

Cool deal!

Heavy rain on the freeway leaves no real water inside my air box. And so far, the water holes I have been in also did not. Part of that is I still have the OEM grill tube connected. Path of least resistance...

mattyvac · **Joined:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:22 pm **Posts:** 20

UPDATE

I took the 4.8 TB off my 2012 KK. Randomely when depressing the brakes at certain times it would throw an ETS and ETC error. The dash would light up and throw a CEL until I restarted the car but the CEL stayed on and wouldnt dissapear unless I pulled the battery cables.

I reset the ECU via the battery cables for an hour and replaced with my OEM 3.7L TB and everything has been fine for the last few weeks.

YMMV I guess

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:33 pm

mattyvac wrote:

UPDATE

I took the 4.8 4.7L TB off my 2012 KK. Randomely when depressing the brakes at certain times it would throw an ETS and ETC error. The dash would light up and throw a CEL until I restarted the car but the CEL stayed on and wouldnt dissapear unless I pulled the battery cables.

I reset the ECU via the battery cables for an hour and replaced with my OEM 3.7L TB and everything has been fine for the last few weeks.

YMMV I guess

possible vacuum leak :2cents:

happens to me frequently on long hauls and is easily solved by turning the engine off and tightening the tubing clamps and verifying tubes are still sealing.

that's the only issue that ive heard of on the 4.7l TB swap on our '12 KKs.

99.9999...% sure there's nothing wrong with the 4.7l TB.

Gageraid · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:22 am

Everything is still good and dandy with my 4.7l throttle body.
Great mileage all summer long.
Been averaging 18.7-20mpg.

ajohns1288 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:07 pm

PALiftedKK wrote:

mattyvac wrote:

UPDATE

I took the 4.8 4.7L TB off my 2012 KK. Randomely when depressing the brakes at certain times it would throw an ETS and ETC error. The dash would light up and throw a CEL until I restarted the car but the CEL stayed on and wouldnt dissapear unless I pulled the battery cables.

I reset the ECU via the battery cables for an hour and replaced with my OEM 3.7L TB and everything has been fine for the last few weeks.

YMMV I guess

possible vacuum leak :2cents:

happens to me frequently on long hauls and is easily solved by turning the engine off and tightening the tubing clamps and verifying tubes are still sealing.

that's the only issue that ive heard of on the 4.7l TB swap on our '12 KKs.

99.9999...% sure there's nothing wrong with the 4.7l TB.

Nothing to do with the intake tubing, there's no vaccuum until past the TB. What happens is the larger surface area of the opening makes the intake have less of vaccuum, so the ECU is more sensitive to changes then it would normally be. If you are cruising for a while and then close the throttle, the engine is expecting to see a certain level of vaccuum. The larger bore puts the vaccuum on the lower end of that tolerance band, if there is any other variation, such as barometric pressure or a slightly leaky brake booster, it will be enough to push the vaccuum out of tolerance which will trip the ETC light.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:37 pm

ajohns1288 wrote:

Nothing to do with the intake tubing, there's no vaccuum until past the TB. What happens is the larger surface area of the opening makes the intake have less of vaccuum, so the ECU is more sensitive to changes then it would normally be. If you are cruising for a while and then close the throttle, the engine is expecting to see a certain level of vaccuum. The larger bore puts the vaccuum on the lower end of that tolerance band, if there is any other variation, such as barometric pressure or a slightly leaky brake booster, it will be enough to push the vaccuum out of tolerance which will trip the ETC light.

if the ecu is reset properly, there should be no issue since its a direct bolt on and plug and play. the same amount of vacuum is still present but the engine breathes a lot better. seems like mattyvacs issue is a vacuum leak as those lights infer a leak in the system unless he got a code such as P1299.

ajohns1288 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:28 pm

PALiftedKK wrote:

ajohns1288 wrote:

Nothing to do with the intake tubing, there's no vaccuum until past the TB. What happens is the larger surface area of the opening makes the intake have less of vaccuum, so the ECU is more sensitive to changes then it would normally be. If you are cruising for a while and then close the throttle, the engine is expecting to see a certain level of vaccuum. The larger bore puts the vaccuum on the lower end of that tolerance band, if there is any other variation, such as barometric pressure or a slightly leaky brake booster, it will be enough to push the vaccuum out of tolerance which will trip the ETC light.

if the ecu is reset properly, there should be no issue since its a direct bolt on and plug and play. the same amount of vacuum is still present but the engine breathes a lot better. seems like mattyvacs issue is a vacuum leak as those lights infer a leak in the system unless he got a code such as P1299.

I got that info from an engine cal guy I know, so he could be wrong. I got a P2172 once when I was driving for 3 hours from -10F to 30F weather, but never since. Seeing as how it also mentions high airflow, I can see how a bigger TB might set it.

P2172-HIGH AIRFLOW/VACUUM LEAK DETECTED (INSTANTANEOUS ACCUMULATION)

Set Condition:
A large vacuum leak has been detected or both of the TP Sensors have failed based on their position being 2.5 volts and the calculated MAP value is less than the actual MAP minus an Offset value. One trip fault and the code will set within 5 seconds. ETC light will flash.

It would be interesting to see what other codes people are getting.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:10 pm

I usually get p2173, high airflow. a quick tightening of clamps on the intake and vacuum lines and im on my way. ill see the dash light up like crazy and I immediately know why, rarely have I scanned since I knew the issue and solution.

any codes related to the TB, verify the clamps are tight and not loose like they always get.

Marty, before he removed the TB should have verified what code he was getting instead of removing it and not knowing the code. :2cents:

Scar0 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:11 am

No issues with my TB at all. Never a code and still works great today.
There was a KA owner with issues, but he remove the seal from the intake manifold when he replaced his.

Gageraid · **Posted:** Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:43 pm

Scar0 wrote:

No issues with my TB at all. Never a code and still works great today.
There was a KA owner with issues, but he remove the seal from the intake manifold when he replaced his.

How many KA guys and gals have been participating in this mod?

mattyvac · **Joined:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:22 pm **Posts:** 20

Scar0 wrote:

No issues with my TB at all. Never a code and still works great today.
There was a KA owner with issues, but he remove the seal from the intake manifold when he replaced his.

I was using a silicone adapter to use the 4.7L TB on the stock airbox tubing. Maybe that was the source of the 'vacuum leak' if that's what was throwing codes (unconfirmed) but I triple-chcked the adapter and the seal was consistent and tight.

Scar0 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:21 pm

Gageraid wrote:

How many KA guys and gals have been participating in this mod?

4 + me that I know of.

mattyvac wrote:

I was using a silicone adapter to use the 4.7L TB on the stock airbox tubing. Maybe that was the source of the 'vacuum leak' if that's what was throwing codes (unconfirmed) but I triple-chcked the adapter and the seal was consistent and tight.

Anything forward of the TB would have no effect, except for dirty air coming in.
It is the seal between the TB and intake manifold you need to make sure is there.

mattyvac · **Joined:** Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:22 pm **Posts:** 20

Scar0 wrote:

Gageraid wrote:

How many KA guys and gals have been participating in this mod?

4 + me that I know of.

mattyvac wrote:

I was using a silicone adapter to use the 4.7L TB on the stock airbox tubing. Maybe that was the source of the 'vacuum leak' if that's what was throwing codes (unconfirmed) but I triple-chcked the adapter and the seal was consistent and tight.

Anything forward of the TB would have no effect, except for dirty air coming in.
It is the seal between the TB and intake manifold you need to make sure is there.

The white-ish colored wire gasket was there- and still is there. It fits into the grooves in the TB mount on the engine so it never moved....

3.7L TB has been back on since I initially posted few weeks ago and all codes have disappeared.

Only other thing I can think of is that this TB was from a crashed Commander. Maybe something inside the TB module was bad.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:02 pm

mattyvac wrote:

The white-ish colored wire gasket was there- and still is there. It fits into the grooves in the TB mount on the engine so it never moved....

3.7L TB has been back on since I initially posted few weeks ago and all codes have disappeared.

Only other thing I can think of is that this TB was from a crashed Commander. Maybe something inside the TB module was bad.

99.999999% of 4.7l TB modifiers on here have no issue and we all got them from salvaged donors. fly by wire are simple, meaning if theirs 1 small issue it will throw a code! the issue is that no codes were pulled and you or anyone on here cant help you with the issue. but as said it was most likely a vacuum leak.

huntb · **Posted:** Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:57 pm

Scar0 wrote:

FYI:
Always disconnect Neg (-) first then Pos (+), reconnect Pos (+) then Neg (-)!
NEVER disconnect the Pos (+) with Neg (-) still connected, and NEVER connect the Neg (-) without the Pos (+) already connected.
If you do it backward, you can fry the TIPM, as another KA owner learned the hard way...
Step 1 in the SM is "disconnect the Neg (-) battery cable and wait", for almost everything.

Sorry, but the electrical engineer in me is having a very difficult time believing this. Is this something from the owners manual or service manual?

If anything the positive cable should be removed first so that remaining capacitance in the vehicle will discharge

Scar0 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:04 pm

As I said in the post you quoted. Almost every repair procedure in the dealer service manuals (KA and KK manuals) I have, starts with "Disconnect the Neg (-) battery cable and isolate it".
A KA owner did it backward and fried his TIPM.
I don't totally understand how or why this would happen, but in real life it did to him. I figure the engineers who designed the system know more about it then I do. So for me it is better safe then sorry.

EDIT:
I also found this in the owners manual regarding jump starting.
5. Connect one end of the jumper cable to the positive
battery post. Connect the other end of the same cable to
the positive terminal of the booster battery.
6. Connect the other cable, first to the negative terminal
of the booster battery and then to the engine ground of
the vehicle with the discharged battery. Make sure you
have a good contact on the engine ground.

9. When removing the jumper cables, reverse the above
sequence exactly.

Increase in mpg w/ 4.7L TB

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