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 Post subject: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:21 pm 
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Good evening and thank you for taking the time to read this! So I have a 2012 Jeep Liberty Latitude (2wd sadly, but a very beautiful SUV) and am trying to gather up the entire parts list to make it 4wd. I'd look constantly on multiple forums and people are telling the poor suckers like me to sell it and/or trade it in for one with 4wd and take the hit! Well as the title suggests I can't do that. So here's the reason why I want to get it into 4wd: I live in Rexburg, Idaho on the eastern upper Snake River Plain I live near forests, sand dunes, farm lands,perfect areas to go and take the "road less traveled,", and currently live in about a foot and a half of snow. Sounds like some of you reading (if anyone is) know where I'm going with this, I need to get this thing to 4wd to be able to brave the last element, snow. I've gotten stuck in ALL of the places listed above and even though my other car is a mustang and I'm originally from California, I do know how to get myself out of a situation or two. I've gotten myself out of: deep mud (all the way to about 12 inches on the front wheels), sand, snow and ice using my resources around me, but I thought every time I got out of those situations, "I wonder how much easier I would have it if I had a 4x4 at my disposal." I must add that I'm 19 years old and a sophomore in college and am just laying low while I'm off track at college and working. I have a few dollars to spare but rent is increasing so that's going to be rough. My goal is to get this thing fitted with everything by mid to late fall of this year!!! I would appreciate any help I can get. My first suggestion as I thought about this was, "go to the junkyard, find a liberty (08-12 preferably) and pick apart the components and hardware necessary for my goal. Any other thoughts, tips, or suggestions are always considered and greatly appreciated.

If it turns out I can get a car and still have my insurance relatively reasonable I'll just get a late 90s grand Cherokee TSi like the one we used to have or get the same model but is year of a TSi I'll just get the V8.

Oh!! And in regards to getting all the parts on the vehicle I have a plan and it's pretty cool. The school I go to obviously had an automotive engineering program and I asked the head of the department if I can send in the jeep as a senior project build for some students getting ready to graduate and he agreed!!! I just need the parts!
This car has been a lifesaver and a beautiful addition to my life, I've gone everywhere from California, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, and all throughout California in this thing. Absolutely beautiful piece of machinery.


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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:03 am 
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Sounds cool. Some good snow tires would help. Thin tires help in deep snow.

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:06 am 
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Thought of that and so close to getting some, problem isn't really the patches of ice or snow it's getting out when the front wheels look like they could easily contribute if they could under their own power.


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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:01 am 
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The honest truth? You'd be better off selling it and buying a 4x4 model. Only reason why I'm saying that is just because of getting the electronics to all agree and play right.

That said, you can probably bypass the whole computer problems by going with a manual transfer case. The KKs have the electronic switch, but if you cut the center console and floor you could probably put the 4wd shifter in. Then it's a matter of the front driveline (axles, driveshafts, etc). Idk if the computer would pick up the power being sent to the front wheels and trigger limp mode or make the abs/tcs go crazy. Like I said this is all uncharted territory that nobody ventured in before (aside from a few KJs with Atlas TC and rubicon TC, but they don't have nearly as many computer systems as the KK). For all I know you can put in a factory electronically shifted TC and wire the switch to avoid all the Jeep's ECUs.

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:22 am 
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I'll make sure when I send it in to the school that they know this is an absolutely absurd project to the seniors, but it'll be one heck of an accomplishment if done correctly.

But thank you for the input, any bit helps!!!!! If it come down to it I think I'll just get the grand Cherokee TSI or V8 version
They have a TSi in a dealership for 3 grand and it's a solid car with a nice 4wd equipped. If I get the V8, I'm getting it for the sound of a V8.

I will make sure if it's done on the KK, that it'll be documented either on paper or video so people in my situation who want to do what I want to do can see what has been done. "Chart the uncharted"


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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:42 am 
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Even if they pull it off still be a lot of time and money invested into it that you will never get back
You'd need a totaled 4x4 KK sitting there to swap all parts off of
Not as simple as going to the salvage yard and just pulling a few parts and done
Good luck, I've been working on 4x4s for over 40 years and wouldn't do it for several reasons

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:24 am 
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Mechanically it's easy to swap in the correct parts,still using used junkyard parts will cost a pretty penny not to mention the amount of labor involved.

Electronically to make it work will be impossible unless your willing to spend say $25,000+.You got a lot more then just shifting the t-case to worry about in this area.

Your only option to make it 4wd and work right is to trade it in for a 4wd model.It's not the '70's or '80's where this kind of swap was fairly easy since there was no electronics or very simple ones.


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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:39 pm 
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Here is what you need to do.
Buy a totaled KK 08-12 Libby with all good running gear. 07-will not work.
Pull all the mechanical parts needed. Then strip out the entire body wire harnesses, (you can not just splice in to your harnesses). Totally strip your rig down to the frame. Swap everything into your ride. OK, now you think you are good to go. NOPE! Because all the computers needed to do this do not match your VIN #. So, swap in the cluster, WCM, HVAC controls, PCM, TIPM, use the keys from the donor rig, right. OK now it might run. But you can never sell it, smog test it, or have any electronic service done, because the VIN in the system does not match your VIN. C.J.D. will not update your VIN with the added 4x4 programming, so you are stuck.
Long story short. To try to make it like OEM can't be done for less then buying a KK with 4x4.
You could attempt to use a manual transfer case as Bmxer524 suggested. You can not use a KJ front axle in a KK. They have different tone rings and ABS system, not to mention the width difference.
The manual X-fer case output shafts will not match the KK drive lines. Those would need to be custom made @ around $600 each.
All said and done, it still may not work because of the computers... But you will not know until it is done.
If it does not work, you are out all the $ and labor with still needing to revert back to the original config.
If you have the $ to waste on a gamble. Go for it! It would be a cool build.

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:33 pm 
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Much appreciated! This is all helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:04 pm 
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Honestly if you are dead set on keeping it, your best option is upgrading the rear diff to either a true trac or a selectable locker. That and some snow tires should get you most places and will be a heck of a lot cheaper than the parts needed to do the swap.

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:16 pm 
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Why do some of you say it will be impossible to make it all work? I think it would be easy. Its easy if you have the know how. But will be expensive.
Its a 2012, all the parts are still being made. But as some have said, i would look for a totalled 2012 liberty that maybe was rear ended, not have damaged parts that you need and carefully dissasemble it all. Look at this, http://www.justanswer.com/jeep/24vcb-co ... site.html#

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:20 am 
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Efren_Hinojosa wrote:
Why do some of you say it will be impossible to make it all work? I think it would be easy. Its easy if you have the know how. But will be expensive.
Its a 2012, all the parts are still being made. But as some have said, i would look for a totalled 2012 liberty that maybe was rear ended, not have damaged parts that you need and carefully dissasemble it all. Look at this, http://www.justanswer.com/jeep/24vcb-co ... site.html#

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LOL bet none of the so called experts have ever thought of or done anything like is being suggested.

In the end its going to be a KK that used to be nice but.................

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:54 am 
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tommudd wrote:
Efren_Hinojosa wrote:
Why do some of you say it will be impossible to make it all work? I think it would be easy. Its easy if you have the know how. But will be expensive.
Its a 2012, all the parts are still being made. But as some have said, i would look for a totalled 2012 liberty that maybe was rear ended, not have damaged parts that you need and carefully dissasemble it all. Look at this, http://www.justanswer.com/jeep/24vcb-co ... site.html#

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LOL bet none of the so called experts have ever thought of or done anything like is being suggested.

In the end its going to be a KK that used to be nice but.................

Today it would be easier and cheaper to trade it in. If i had a rwd car i loved and could find all stock parts to convert it, i would do it.
Before i bought my libby crd i was looking at a 3.0 diesel jeep 2x4, with 70,000 miles. I started pricing everything to convert it, but before i could finish working it all out it was gone. Had it been closer to me i would have bougt it first.

I am an automotive diesel technician working at a rv service shop. I would tackle this no problem.

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:40 am 
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Efren_Hinojosa wrote:
Efren_Hinojosa wrote:
Why do some of you say it will be impossible to make it all work? I think it would be easy. Its easy if you have the know how. But will be expensive.
Its a 2012, all the parts are still being made. But as some have said, i would look for a totalled 2012 liberty that maybe was rear ended, not have damaged parts that you need and carefully dissasemble it all. Look at this, http://www.justanswer.com/jeep/24vcb-co ... site.html#


Today it would be easier and cheaper to trade it in. If i had a rwd car i loved and could find all stock parts to convert it, i would do it.
Before i bought my libby crd i was looking at a 3.0 diesel jeep 2x4, with 70,000 miles. I started pricing everything to convert it, but before i could finish working it all out it was gone. Had it been closer to me i would have bougt it first.

I am an automotive diesel technician working at a rv service shop. I would tackle this no problem.

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The issue is not the mechanical parts. Those are easily done for a price. The issue is the electronics, as stated many times in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:21 pm 
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You just have to change some harnesses, i have done that before not impossible. Use ecm from donor car. Its time consuming but not scarry hard.

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:40 pm 
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What Scar0 is saying is that two identical electronic parts, like the PCM from 2 different KK's, are not interchangeable. They are programmed to work only on the vehicle they came on from the factory, so the vehicle VIN has to match the PCM VIN. If swapped over to a different KK, they simply will not function. It is not a question of matching harnesses or the same electronic parts.

Scar0, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I have always understood the way important electronic modules work in modern vehicles. It is the car companies' deterrent to theft and reselling stolen parts.

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:06 pm 
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You can change the vin in the ecm,pcm

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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:06 pm 
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Efren_Hinojosa wrote:
You just have to change some harnesses, i have done that before not impossible. Use ecm from donor car. Its time consuming but not scarry hard.

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You will need the complete harness and all computers(every single one,not just the t-case module) from a 4wd donor,to include the key's.

You will not be able to sell or trade it ever and if you do not tell your insurance company they can nail you for fraud(I've seen it happen).


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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:07 pm 
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Efren_Hinojosa wrote:
You can change the vin in the ecm,pcm

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Nobody will do it since the VIN states 2wd and thus the 4wd will not work or let alone keep the engine running for more then 2 seconds.


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 Post subject: Re: 2wd to 4wd conversion (Trading/Selling not an option)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:24 pm 
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But it is possible to convert it to 4x4. After spending all that money to convert it to 4x4 why would you sell it. I at least drive cars until its junkyard time.

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