Strange intermittent noise

KrazyKK · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:19 pm **Posts:** 87

Hey everybody,

I'm trying to chase down a possible problem. What kind of problem? I have no idea but the kind you find out about from strange noises that you can't replicate. Then, just when you are about to shrug it off it happens again.

So here's the story. In September, I went to a family cook-out at my Aunt's house. When I was leaving... I started the Jeep up, put it into drive, and made a hard turn left to pull away from the curb. As I gave the Jeep some gas... it started moving as normally expected in this every day scenario.

Except this happened: As I was turning a loud 'wuuuuuWAHHHHH' noise (kind of something was stuck but then came undone forcibly) came from what seemed to be from the front left wheel area. My wife and I looked at eachother like... :shock:

Something rubbed against something that didn't like something.

I drive down the road a bit , do a 3 point turn (makes no noise), and grab my Dad's attention before he leaves. My Dad is a master nissan & volvo tech. I tell him what happened so he hops in and can't seem to replicate what happened. He grabs a flashlight and sees if anything is out of place. Everything is seemingly fine.

Except this will happen still on occasion. Since the first time I heard this noise... I've only had this happen maybe 10 times. It does seem to matter that the Jeep had been sitting (but not always)... and it doesn't appear to matter which way I am turning the wheel. It has happened at least twice when backing out of a parking spot and then turning the wheel right. It does seem to happen more when turning left. Another thing possibly worth noting is the Jeep is always at a dead stop before this happens.

But all that being said I still can't actively replicate it and I drive it every day. I can 99% of the time turn the wheel in either direction to near full lock (I can full lock too but I don't like doing that...), give it gas, and no strange noise happens. Once it happens though I can not get it to do it again... until the next time it randomly does it.

Anyway, I am a beginner at doing anything automotive but I am not afraid to get my hands dirty... plus if I get in over my head I do got my Dad to help out too. He can do anything. But he is just not super familiar with Libertys. (They really aren't that common here)

Any ideas at all? I don't know if it is a serious problem or not... it hardly ever happens but it just sounds horrible when it does happen.

Scar0 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:51 am

Usually happens right after start up? Check to see if the Check 4Wd light on the dash is on or off when this happens.
My theory; Right after startup the Jeep computers do a self check. It is possible you are starting, turning the wheel and rolling while the self check is still in progress. IE the self check is checking the status of 4Wd position and gets caught up in the movement of the rig.

Just a theory...

KrazyKK · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:19 pm **Posts:** 87

Scar0 wrote:

Usually happens right after start up? Check to see if the Check 4Wd light on the dash is on or off when this happens.
My theory; Right after startup the Jeep computers do a self check. It is possible you are starting, turning the wheel and rolling while the self check is still in progress. IE the self check is checking the status of 4Wd position and gets caught up in the movement of the rig.

Just a theory...

Well I guess that would depend on how long the self check goes on. I never start up and go. Even in warm weather I usually give the engine a couple minutes at the very least to get going. If the check is done by the time all the lights on the dash go away... then there is no way it could be that. I definitely appreciate the theory though... when I go to work I'll start her up and drive immediately today to see if that may in fact be it. Perhaps on every occasion I've heard this noise I was more impatient than normal :shock:

If I ever figure it out I'll definitely post it here though... so if anybody else runs into it they'll know what it is or what to do.

Scar0 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:32 am

Yes when all the dash lights are out the self-check is done.
Just wish I had a better answer for you.
I suppose it could be a sticking caliper or E-brake shoe.?
Just guessing again, I'm afraid...

KrazyKK · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:19 pm **Posts:** 87

Scar0 wrote:

Yes when all the dash lights are out the self-check is done.
Just wish I had a better answer for you.
I suppose it could be a sticking caliper or E-brake shoe.?
Just guessing again, I'm afraid...

No worries , man. It is so hard to describe what you feel happening in a vehicle through text! Half the struggle is relaying what I am hearing going on properly.

I have checked my calipers by having my wife hop in and compress the brake while I watched/timed each caliper on release. They all seemed fine. But that being said they are all kind of rusty (along with the ebrake shoes). Maybe I should regrease the caliper pistons.

I have no idea how to give the ebrake shoes TLC though. :oops:

And now it's been probably 3 weeks since I last had this happen... so sheesh.

Scar0 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:39 am

Tell me about it! How do you describe a sound in words? :dizzy:

There is a great brake how-to write up on the KA Nitro forumz I am a member of that walks you through everything. But it is only visible to members. (KK owners welcome)
The KK and KA use essentially the same brake setup.
On the rear there is what is called a drum-in-hat. The regular brakes use the rim of the hat, the E-brakes use the inside "Drum" of the hat.
You will need to take the wheels off, then the calipers, and disk/drum to get to the E-brakes.
Once inside you can inspect the E-brake parts.

EDIT:
Just thought of something else. Have a look at the steering rack. Make sure it is not loose and binding up.

KrazyKK · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:19 pm **Posts:** 87

Sorry for the lack of posting - my wife and I went out of the country for a couple weeks on vacation.

I haven't had a chance since getting back a few days ago to really look the Jeep over but I did discover that my ebrake does not work at all... so that is definitely getting some attention real soon.

My calipers definitely aren't in superb shape either and I am considering investing in some high quality aftermarket calipers. They don't seem to be seizing but a couple are rusty on their lower sides. I'm wondering if the rusty parts just get stuck every once in a while.

My goal is to have this Jeep until 200,000 miles or more... I'm almost at 60,000 ... so I got quite a few years to treat her well. I will try to update this thread as soon as I can.

KrazyKK · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:19 pm **Posts:** 87

So as an update - the noise still hasn't happened almost since I posted this thread. Of course, right?

I'm replacing the e-brake shoes, rear rotors, and pads this week. I'll have to share pictures of how badly corroded the rotors and ebrake shoes are. I am suspecting on cold & wet days the rotors and ebrake shoes just got too sticky. It also makes sense to me now why the noise hasn't happened in a long time - when I took off my wheels to paint them (it's been a good couple months ago now) I cleaned up a good bit of corrosion behind them.

I had my Dad check out my steering rack a couple weeks ago while I was having him inspect an engine noise that was freaking me out and he told me it was fine. He showed me how to inspect them too. Both the engine noise and the steering rack, that is. Turns out I'm just a hypochondriac Jeep owner. I was so in-tune with my engine sound that I was hearing the fuel pump and fuel injectors work away but I was convinced I was about to throw a rod-bearing... haha.

Needless to say he is proud that his boy is finally getting into cars like him.

It only took me 25 years but I guess Jeeps will do that to you.

Pictures of the insanely corroded rear rotors and ebrake shoes to come soon. Here's to hoping I can get them off, too!

Drifter · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:41 am **Posts:** 32

Krazy, I had a random noise in the rear of the kk. Knowing it's get on 4 years old and likely never had rear brakes changed I assumed that was the likely cause. Long story short I changed out everything including hardware, shoes, pads, and rotors. They were absolutely no fun whatsoever to remove. The rotors were clearly original based on the level of rust and the ridge inside. Definitely was the cause of my noise there though. Ill make a thread with the remnants and my solution. I think I'm gonna pull the rotors at least twice a year or maybe more often just to check or clean where the shoes operate. Seems like good preventive maintenance rather than the final mess they become. It will be interesting to see what you find when yours is apart. :POPCORN:

KrazyKK · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:19 pm **Posts:** 87

I had every intention to take pictures throughout the process... but yikes. The ebrake shoes were way more of a pain than I expected :furious:

that double spring set up is a grumpy bear to work with. I had to use a pair of vice grips to hold on to the springs so I could stretch them back down into the hole they belong in.

Here is the aftermath laying in my garage though:

The ebrake shoes were pretty bad... the pad part of the shoe was almost half the thickness of the new ones I put on there, and judging by some gouges along the tops - the previous owner may have drove around with the ebrake on for a while. lol

and the rotors:

There was only a slight ridge inside the rotor hat itself... not nearly as bad as LFHoward's but needless to say I wanted to replace them anyway. I did have to back off the star wheel on the ebrake in order to get the rotor off though... and a hammer was also required. The driver side was far worse than the passenger side. I don't doubt that the rotors were original to the vehicle.

I also changed the pads and greased the caliper pins. Piston boots on each caliper was fine - no cracks or tears at all. I cleaned up some rust where the pad clips sit and everything appears to be just dandy now. AND I actually have an ebrake again... so I can pass NYS inspection in a month. :BANANA:

But I suppose time will only tell if this was the source of my noise. :JEEPIN:

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Sat May 28, 2016 12:28 pm

Lets hope brake pads were the issue! Cheep issue. If it does happen again snap a video or audio clip of what it sounds like.

KrazyKK · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:19 pm **Posts:** 87

PALiftedKK wrote:

Lets hope brake pads were the issue! Cheep issue. If it does happen again snap a video or audio clip of what it sounds like.

For the pads, rotors, and ebrake shoes I ended up paying a bit over $300 from NAPA. I bought Ultra Premium for everything. I'll get $9 back for the ebrake shoe cores. And hopefully next week I'll be able to match the fronts to the back - I might go reactive one for the front pads though.

If the sound does happen again I will again be at a pretty big loss as to what was causing it. I am fairly certain now it was indeed the old rotors/ebrake shoes binding up on me on occasion. On a 20 mile round trip today the difference was quite noticeable - my Jeep doesn't downshift near as fast. Big thanks to Scar0 for giving me the idea to check out the e-brake assembly. I would have surely failed inspection for that alone!

It's quite nice having a matching black rotor hat behind my black rims now too... instead of a rusty corroded hat haha.

And I am totally with Drifter - it might definitely be worth it to pull the rotors off a couple times a year and check out the ebrake assembly/ clean it up a little. This is only a 4 year old vehicle that we are talking about here... having ebrake shoes corrode to the point of them no longer functioning how they should.

Scar0 · **Posted:** Sat May 28, 2016 4:55 pm

Here's hoping that was the fix!
Those shoes were in pretty bad shape. If the rust on the rest of the parts were as bad as the shoes, it could very well have been a sticking problem.

Strange intermittent noise

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