Custom R&P

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:49 pm

Just remember modifying actually reduces what your vehicle is worth.Stock vehicles will always get you more $$$ on trade since modified vehicles are hard to sell.

Plus you got to remember your pushing your IFS to it's max and the parts are not meant to operate at that max range for long periods.

ElCuervo52 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:04 pm

It's so frustrating there's is 0 aftermarket for KK steering. What I don't get is that I see a bunch of guys around town running huge lifts on 4runners, FJs, Xterras, etc. They're all IFS, are they all blowing racks too? I wish I heard some of this sentiment when I was posting on Jeep Forum asking whether or not I should lift the car or sell it stock! How many people have actually pulled of a successful SFA swap on the KK? Worth the trouble?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:58 pm

ElCuervo52 wrote:

It's so frustrating there's is 0 aftermarket for KK steering. What I don't get is that I see a bunch of guys around town running huge lifts on 4runners, FJs, Xterras, etc. They're all IFS, are they all blowing racks too? I wish I heard some of this sentiment when I was posting on Jeep Forum asking whether or not I should lift the car or sell it stock! How many people have actually pulled of a successful SFA swap on the KK? Worth the trouble?

Other IFS vehicles like the ones you listed have a actual body on frame construction thus allowing a drop bracket assembly to be installed to drop the steering gear(box or rack) without dropping the engine,and extended knuckles to address the tie rod angles.Also there popularity in the offroad world means company's can make such parts and turn a profit.Not so much for the KJ/KK.

There was 2 prototype sets of extended knuckles built for the KJ,one set was featured on the liberator prototype and the other were left on a shelf somewhere.Superlift made them but deamed the market to small and would not sell enough to turn a profit so they scrapped the whole deal.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:08 pm

So, out of curiosity, this is a KJ problem too, not just a KK issue? Besides Jeepncrowd, Namouton, and Elcuervo (all KK's), I hadn't heard of this happening much before.

Maybe a stupid question, since I haven't looked under my KK to tell, but would it be possible to fabricate a steering rack spacer, basically to drop it an inch down from where it attaches to the crossmember, to get better tie rod angles? Sort of a cradle drop lite approach?

Am interested in this discussion since I have the JBA 4" lift. Installed at 60K and now at 145K with no issues except replaced the right CV and intermediate shaft one time. Knock on wood though...

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:14 pm

wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the lift? You lift to get ground clearance (or I do) but wouldn't that drop the steering gear down in the possible impact zone?

ElCuervo52 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:33 pm

I feel like extended knuckles for the tie rods would solve my whole issue. How hard could it be to get someone to custom fab these?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:35 pm

lfhoward wrote:

So, out of curiosity, this is a KJ problem too, not just a KK issue? Besides Jeepncrowd, Namouton, and Elcuervo (all KK's), I hadn't heard of this happening much before.

Maybe a stupid question, since I haven't looked under my KK to tell, but would it be possible to fabricate a steering rack spacer, basically to drop it an inch down from where it attaches to the crossmember, to get better tie rod angles? Sort of a cradle drop lite approach?

Am interested in this discussion since I have the JBA 4" lift. Installed at 60K and now at 145K with no issues except replaced the right CV and intermediate shaft one time. Knock on wood though...

Would not be possible since the rack is bolted to the top of the cradle.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:45 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the lift? You lift to get ground clearance (or I do) but wouldn't that drop the steering gear down in the possible impact zone?

The only true "lift" you get on a KJ/KK with IFS and solid rear axle is the up-sizing of the tires.Only IFS/IRS vehicles can gain "lift" without bigger tires.

ElCuervo52 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:34 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

ElCuervo52 wrote:

It's so frustrating there's is 0 aftermarket for KK steering. What I don't get is that I see a bunch of guys around town running huge lifts on 4runners, FJs, Xterras, etc. They're all IFS, are they all blowing racks too? I wish I heard some of this sentiment when I was posting on Jeep Forum asking whether or not I should lift the car or sell it stock! How many people have actually pulled of a successful SFA swap on the KK? Worth the trouble?

Other IFS vehicles like the ones you listed have a actual body on frame construction thus allowing a drop bracket assembly to be installed to drop the steering gear(box or rack) without dropping the engine,and extended knuckles to address the tie rod angles.Also there popularity in the offroad world means company's can make such parts and turn a profit.Not so much for the KJ/KK.

There was 2 prototype sets of extended knuckles built for the KJ,one set was featured on the liberator prototype and the other were left on a shelf somewhere.Superlift made them but deamed the market to small and would not sell enough to turn a profit so they scrapped the whole deal.

You think they would fab us some of these prototypes if we had enough people interested?

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:29 pm

ElCuervo52 wrote:

It's so frustrating there's is 0 aftermarket for KK steering. What I don't get is that I see a bunch of guys around town running huge lifts on 4runners, FJs, Xterras, etc. They're all IFS, are they all blowing racks too? I wish I heard some of this sentiment when I was posting on Jeep Forum asking whether or not I should lift the car or sell it stock! How many people have actually pulled of a successful SFA swap on the KK? Worth the trouble?

We don't really see blown racks that often other than jeepncrowd and nam (and you of course). I can't recall the last KJ I've seen with a blown rack either. Trust me, I would have told you if they were that common. I warn everyone about the spring/uca contact with full size springs at 3-3.5". Hell I've been running at 3.5" and 31s for 40+k miles now with no steering issues. She sees a lot of time offroad on muddy, and sometimes rocky hunting trails as well as all my beach driving (which there's a lot of, with speeds ranging from 15-20 mph most often and all the way up to 40-50mph) with no issues yet. Some parts of our beaches are pretty rocky too, I don't shy away from the little rock gardens we have either.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:30 pm

ElCuervo52 wrote:

You think they would fab us some of these prototypes if we had enough people interested?

You'd need at least 100 people pre-paying before they would ever consider it,maybe more considering it's something like $50,000 to make the mold(KJ knuckles are different then KK knuckles).Then you have the machining on top of that.

Oh by the way that was pricing from guy that does diff covers(in nodular iron/chrome moly) and those are considerably easier to cast and machine.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:46 pm

Would be nice if they would at least sell the blueprints online. It wouldn't cost them anything more than they've already invested.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:01 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Would be nice if they would at least sell the blueprints online. It wouldn't cost them anything more than they've already invested.

You think they would sell them cheap? bet it would require 6 figures to buy them.

ElCuervo52 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:53 pm

Help us ATH, you're our only hope

lfhoward · **Posted:** Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:27 am

Just for the sake of visualization, here is a photo from a KJ that shows the knuckle and tie rod very nicely.

There's actually a whole series of photos from different angles shown on the original thread: http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f202/hub-replacement-46865/

Thinking about the geometry, I can see how a casting of a custom knuckle with the tie rod attachment point being higher would relieve the steep angle on the tie rod from the steering rack.

But it also makes me wonder if some kind of custom tie rod end might accomplish the same thing. The problem there would be the lateral stresses that would be exerted on an extended (downward) tie rod end, just due to the physics of it. If it's a weak point, it wouldn't work.

I had in mind something like this (but inverted 180°):

Source of the photo: https://www.hotrodhotline.com/content/selecting-rod-ends-story-photos-jim-clark-hot-rod-md#.WPwvTYEpDYU

Or like this:

Source of the photo: http://www.droppedaxles.com/FORD_AXLES.html

ElCuervo52 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:28 am

Something like the second picture seems like it would do the job without putting excessive stress on the tie rod end. Thanks for the input. Now let's figure out how to do it!

lfhoward · **Posted:** Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:33 am

A whole bunch of stuff comes up when I Google "lowered tie rod end" and scroll through the images. Looks like the hot rod community has been fixing steering geometry for a good while using a variety of solutions. In our case we are lifting rather than lowering, but the solution to leveling out the steering seems like it could be similar. What might be challenging is coming up with a strong solution that allows full articulation of the front suspension up and down while also steering. The lowered hot rods probably don't articulate much, so they have to account mostly for sideways steering forces on the street, not up and down of the suspension while off roading.

ElCuervo52 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:29 am

Is this a 4" lift? This is way gnarlier than anything I've done in my Jeep. What gives!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... EpQdhW5KoA

Gotta be something we can do with the tie rods

KrazyKK · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:19 pm **Posts:** 87

There are guys on pirate4x4 that make their own knuckles or modify their existing ones. Some guys on there are so good they can weld cast housings ... Which is way easier said than done. I have tried to weld cast and can't get my welds to stick haha.

Your JBA silver lift is adjustable, right? Maybe crank it down a little in the front and see if it helps. I'm not sure how much control you have with JBA's adjust-a-struts but it may be something worth trying.

And perhaps it is a possibility you are turning your wheel off road when you shouldn't be? It sounds so silly but I've seen nobody else mention that yet. If your steering wheel doesn't wanna go don't force it.

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:30 pm

ElCuervo52 wrote:

Is this a 4" lift? This is way gnarlier than anything I've done in my Jeep. What gives!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... EpQdhW5KoA

Gotta be something we can do with the tie rods

Only a 2.5" with 31s. He's down in Australia. I know he's on Jeepforum, and might be on Lost too. I forgot his username. I wanna say Mikzor or something like that.

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