Hi all,

I've been lurking ever since getting my 2012 Arctic Edition (55k miles) a few months ago, and have really appreciated the useful info I've come across in regards to suspension, tires, awesome aftermarket products (ATH), and so forth. Unfortunately what brings me to step out of the shadows and make my first post isn't an exciting build thread, but an electrical issue. Yes, it's the dreaded wipers and lights gremlin

Symptoms:

- Wipers and lights are on whenever the car is on (key in 'on' position or running)
- Gauges don't work, dashboard is either blank or a christmas tree that emits a long mechanical tone every 30 seconds
- My radio, power seats, speakers, engine and transmission all seem to be fine. Seems to be lights/wipers/dash specific. Car seems to be drivable beyond the above issues.
- I have seen both NO BUSS and C 932 on the dash when trying to get codes to show using the trip button trick and the ignition switch 3x in a row trick. Not sure if C 932 is a CAN bus code or part of the dash gibberish, but the CAN bus seems to be involved.
- This all happened the day after I had stressed the car battery by leaving it on for 60min to charge my phone during a phone call with an old friend, where I lost track of time. The car started up just fine the next morning, but then the wipers, lights, dash, and dash beep appeared and hasn't gone away.
- Thinking about indications I've had prior to all this, I've had my wiper go on randomly for a few wipes right after starting the Jeep, but not every time. I've also always heard what I think is the dvd/cd system mechanically operating at weird times like it's changing discs, even if the car has been sitting a while.

I have some minor wrenching experience and a strong desire to learn (and save $) by fixing or at least identifying the cause myself. I've read everything on Google about this issue. Here is what I have tried so far.

Attempts:

- Fully charging my battery with a trickle charger, checking amps to make sure it held charge. Even the battery recondition function. Battery seems to be fine, unless I'm missing something.
- Every variation of disconnecting the battery for various time lengths, including over 8 hours. This battery reset does not fix my issue unfortunately.
- Checking every ground location I can find and testing volts- all check out. I found 3 or 4 in the engine bay, the one in back by the driver side brake lights, and the two by the hood release latch.
- I took apart both stalks of the Multifunction Switch (lights, wiper) to see if anything looked off, both checked out
- Checked every fuse- none of them appear to be blown
- I "manually perturbed" the TIPM fuse box, that didn't help. I also started to remove it to look underneath it, nothing seemed bad but I didn't disconnect all the bundles attached to it

My guess is that is that stressing the battery lead to some sort of malfunction, or exacerbated an existing issue. I'm guessing the culprit is either the TIPM, Multifunction Switch, or some kind of short or loose ground that I missed. I've heard people with my exact symptoms mention finding a loose grounding strap in the steering column, but the only grounds I see near there are by the hood release latch and they seem to be good and grounded.

All the above being said, I'm wondering what my next step should be. Is there any further diagnosis I can do before I start replacing parts? Should I get a multimeter or test light and look for shorts? Anyone know if these symptoms indicate a short/ground issue vs a TIPM/Multifunciton Switch issue?

Greatly appreciate any help that could be offered.

One other thing I noticed, the rear passenger and top brake light are working, but the driver side brake light is not. Is this indicative of something that can narrow down the issue with the electronics?

Thanks again.

NO BUS usually appears when the IOD fuse is out or blown.
However, usually the rig will not start... NO BUS and the rig starting usually indicates a problem with communication to/from the TIPM.
What is the battery voltage? Did you attempt to charge the battery with the cables still connected in the rig? (Not a good thing)

Pull the drivers side kick panel and check the grounds under there.

"Wipers and lights are on whenever the car is on (key in 'on' position or running)"
This is a fail safe mode. Automatically done when the TIPM can not communicate with the stalks.

A dealer Diag will narrow things down and is cheaper then throwing parts at it.

The brake light problem is usually a socket issue(poor contact inside the socket or melted socket), or a blown bulb.

_________________
07 KA Light Khaki, Manual trany.
2.5" Adjust-A-Strut JBA lift, Euro taillights,
Home made; Front Tilt Hood, Roof Rack, RAM Air, & CAI.
ESP Off Switch
Take a ride on the Trō side!

Thanks for the reply Scar0!

Battery was 12.7 idle and 14.7 while running if I remember right.

I did check the kick panel grounds and both look solid and tested well (using the batter charger's voltometer, they read 12.7)

I can't really afford to take it in to the dealer right now, so I think my next step will be to remove the TIPM and spray down the connection points with contact cleaner. I've watched a few videos and with the color coding and all I don't think I'll have an issue putting it back on. I actually pulled the TIPM partially earlier today but didn't go through with unplugging the cables and checking them because I hadn't seen the videos yet and was worried about putting it back together.

If that doesn't fix it, I was thinking of getting a refurbished TIPM off Ebay (from a seller with great ratings and a return policy). They run pretty cheap compared to dealership costs, and with a return policy I can always send it back if the TIPM is not actually the issue and it ends up being the stalks or something. Example of refurbished TIPM: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-JEEP-LIBER ... 9E&vxp=mtr

Charging the battery with the cables connected- honestly I forget if I did or not. I'm reading now there's some risk of explosion and shorts causing melting/fires... I'm guessing that's why you advise against it? Definitely good to know for next time.

Of course, still a novice at this and open to any and all advice.

BTW, do we know why the TIPM's suck so much? Are they poorly designed to protect against corrosion, or are the relays weak, or? I'd love to fully understand what's going on here so I can take preventative measures and ensure the electrical in this Jeep will not give me headaches in the future.

Latest update: I started the car this morning and everything is back to normal, minus the airbag light being on (maybe because the steering column plastic shrouds are still removed? or maybe because its just another quirk of the electrical system?). My lights were functioning just fine. Does this indicate it is the TIPM and not the multifunction switch? That's my uneducated conclusion at this moment

Use caution when getting a TIPM from the net.
Some will come programmed, most do not, even if ordered with your VIN.
If they are not programmed when you get it, your rig will not start and you will have to tow it to a dealer to have it programmed.
Also if you have "options" in your rig, a dealer most likely will have to program them into the TIPM for them to work.

Due to the fluctuating (dirty) current most inexpensive chargers use to charge a battery, it is not recommended to charge the battery while it is still connected to the rig. The KK's computers are very susceptible to spikes and do not react well to voltage/amperage fluxuations.
Even with the rig turned off, some of the computers are still on line.

When you are working with the battery, you should disconnect the Neg(-) battery cable first, then disconnect the Pos(+). Install in reverse + then -. I know someone who fried their TIPM by not following the above...
Always disconnect the Neg(-) battery cable and wait for 10 minutes before doing any work on the KK! To many folks have popped of their airbags and/or fried their computers by not following this simple step.

Because things seem OK now really does not mean anything. You may have a chafed wire under the TIPM causing a short.
See this post to check for that.
viewtopic.php?p=909097#p909097
Interior CAN wires are located on the C7 (50 way) TIPM connector (at front) Pin 26 + (WT/GY wire), Pin 27 - (WT/OR wire).

Yes to your question. The relays are weak and the unit is not sealed against water or dust in any way.

_________________
07 KA Light Khaki, Manual trany.
2.5" Adjust-A-Strut JBA lift, Euro taillights,
Home made; Front Tilt Hood, Roof Rack, RAM Air, & CAI.
ESP Off Switch
Take a ride on the Trō side!

This is incredibly useful information, thank you so much! Really appreciate it.

Your welcome.
I didn't answer the airbag light Q.
No, the light will not come "on" if the steering wheel cowl is off.
But, this light might indicate a problem with the clockspring inside the steering wheel.
The multi-function switches are also connected to the harness & clockspring, which connects to the airbag.
Because the multi-function switches are not a typical 12 volt switch( they are CAN [Controller Area Network] controlled/powered), a chafed, loose or broken wire/connection in the harness could cause a NOBUS message. As well as the airbag light to come on.

A little more info;
CAN is Controller Area Network. It is low voltage 1.3 - 3.5v computer talk.
There are 3 CAN networks in the KK
CAN-IHS is the Interior High Speed network used to control things like the radio.
CAN-C is used for the more critical systems like the ABS.
Diagnostic CAN-C is used to transfer info to-from the TIPM (and other modules VIA the TIPM) to an outside source like a scanner.
The TIPM is the main gateway for all the networks. IE it can transfer info between the 3 networks.
There are 3 dominant nodes on the network. TIPM, EMIC (Cluster) and the PCM.

Despite it's name CAN-IHS is actually slower then the CAN-C. But it has that designation to differentiate it from the older slower interior CAN version(06, 05- years)[That is why an 06,05- radio will not work in an 07. Wrong CAN speed.]

OK a little off topic, so the reason for the above is to give you a little background info.
The Airbag, Multi-function switches, and if you have them, steering wheel EVIC/radio buttons are Nodes. As is pretty much everything else. Cluster, radio, HVAC controls, Door lock and window switches to name a few.

When you turn "on" the headlights, the multi-function switch sends a CAN message to the cluster, it then forwards that message to the TIPM, requesting the lights be turned "on".
The TIPM energizes the light circuit, responds with a light "on" message to the cluster which then displays the cluster in light "on" mode.

If the cluster and/or TIPM can not see the airbag node on the network, or detects another airbag system fault, you will get the airbag light on the cluster.
If multiple nodes are not detected on the network you can get the NOBUS message.
The NOBUS message can also be triggered if the EMIC can not see the TIPM or visa-versa.

So therein lies the problem... What node/nodes are triggering the NOBUS message, and why?

If I was to wager a guess it would be a chafed wire somewhere.

For the airbag light I would wager it is the clockspring or harness.
Book over....

_________________
07 KA Light Khaki, Manual trany.
2.5" Adjust-A-Strut JBA lift, Euro taillights,
Home made; Front Tilt Hood, Roof Rack, RAM Air, & CAI.
ESP Off Switch
Take a ride on the Trō side!