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CHOP CHOP
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=87820		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  brianb1998 [ Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  CHOP CHOP
Anyone chop the corners off the unibody crossmember? I love to see some pictures of the cuts. Im about to do it just not 100% yet.
Author:  jibjab90 [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
What would be the purpose of that?
Author:  lfhoward [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
Are you mounting a stubby bumper?

In general, cutting unibody anywhere weakens the overall structure, particularly in an accident. Caution is advised.
Author:  brianb1998 [ Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
Yeah stubby bumper is the plan. I'll have some supports welded in fosho
Author:  tommudd [ Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
brianb1998 wrote:
Yeah stubby bumper is the plan. I'll have some supports welded in fosho

Not a good idea at ALL!
Author:  Torchie [ Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
I just did it, In fact i completely cut out the center support as well. I fit in its place a 3X3 .120 wall steel brace to add strength to it as i will mount my winch and d rings here. Many more trick things to come.
Author:  brianb1998 [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
Torchie you got any pictures of the cuts you made?
Author:  brianb1998 [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
Tom can you elaborate on that? What is the risk?
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
For one.. If you ever are in an on-road accident with another vehicle for any reason, and that modification is discovered, No matter where you are in the US, 100% fault for the accident will be placed on you, since you are driving a vehicle with a chassis modified in a Non_DOT_approved manner.
Any vehicle chassis is designed to perform in a very specific way in any collision, and any modification needs to be UL and DOT approved. This assures they have been tested to guarantee that the expected performance is not substantially changed.
If you modify structural chassis components with non-tested / approved stuff, not only are you and yours not covered, you're on the hook for any and all damage to the other party(s) and their equipment.
That is if you're on-road., and only the legality part, not covering all the reasons you could be putting yourself and anyone you wheel with in jeopardy of death.
Off-road, laws vary, and can get quite complicated.

The compromised structural risks Tom knows in detail better than probably any other here, and are the reasons behind the way insurance liability laws are the way they are.
Author:  brianb1998 [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
So lets say I insures as a modified car which includes structural changes and I have a policy that covers such modifications. Now lets say the liberty is a toy to be used off-road and not a daily driver. Is this still a concern?
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
State laws and policies vary.
Check with your insurance provider.

Personally, I'm more concerned about whether I'm sharing the trail or road with someone who has overestimated their engineering / fabricating skills, than whether their insurance is up to snuff.

Not saying that applies to you in particular.
Author:  brianb1998 [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
It does not apply. I am not welder or fabricator. I will have the cuts and welds done by someone who is. Im just looking at possible ramifications. That said. This is certainly not a modification that is going to cause death. If it was going to be a point of failure it would be over time and definitely noticeable as it would progress. Im only looking at removing 3 of the 5 spot weld that secure the front of the wheelhouse to the crossmember. the entire wheel house is still supported by the inner rails as well as the inner fender. the plan will be to reconnect the crossmember to the "new" front of the wheelhouse with a custom bracket of 1/4" steel. A collision to that corner would likely destroy the drive line due to the increased wheel exposure.
Author:  Scar0 [ Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
But any rig/person you hit, or hits you, could be severely damaged/injured, because your rig did not "crumple" as it was originally designed to do in an accident.
The crumple zones designed into rigs these days are there to cushion the impact to one, or more, rigs involved. Thus distributing, directing, and absorbing the impact around the passenger area. Part of the "crumple design" is having spot welds in locations that allow the metal to bend around the weld, and some spot welds are actually designed to pop loose in an impact to absorb some of the impact pressure.
By removing the designed spot welds and steel, then replacing the existing steel with reinforced steel and solid welds, you have effectively created a battering ram, as it were.

I live in an industrial town (there are about 20 commercial heavy industrial welding shops within 20 miles), and there is no welder around here that will modify a street vehicle in the way you are speaking of. To much liability for them and frankly just not safe.

I had an impossible time trying find someone to reinforce a shackle weld that was looking weak on my trailer. They all said "We can't do structural welds on street vehicles, be it on a trailer, auto, truck, or Semi."

I can't talk definitively about the laws or liability, because frankly, I am not an attorney or insurance agent.
What I posted above is just my opinion about what I have learned about automotive design and applying a little logic.
There is a ton of good information on line about the Fed and state laws regarding vehicles structural requirements, lighting, fenders, glass and more.
Author:  brianb1998 [ Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
Thanks for all the info guys. This is stuff that was difficult to find researching. I have heeded the warnings and will not be chopping the unibody. So the new problem is I found a JK bumper I want to mount up. Tom if youre still reading I know you came up with some plans for an adapter. Would you be willing to share?
Author:  tommudd [ Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
Still around, quietly lurking
Author:  brianb1998 [ Wed May 09, 2018 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
I keep coming back to this subject in my head. Wouldnt a full length steel bumper that goes end to end also negate that portion of the crumple zone? I gotta say the more and more I think about it the more I am leaning towards pursuing this path.
Author:  tommudd [ Sun May 20, 2018 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
LOL
Author:  Scar0 [ Mon May 21, 2018 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
Partial quote;
brianb1998 wrote:
Wouldnt a full length steel bumper that goes end to end also negate that portion of the crumple zone?

Yes and no in my opinion. Most steel bumpers you can buy do not modify the OEM steel, welds, and crumple zones.
They simply bolt on to the unibody.
You should also note that after market steel bumpers are usually labeled "for off road use only".

Some states will allow (VIA laws/regs.) the use of a "bolt on" steel, or other material, front bumper (end to end, or partial as in adding a winch plate, push bars or similar) in place of, or replacing part of, the OEM plastic bumper skin, on qualified vehicles.
But there are specific requirements which have to be followed.

I have not seen any provisions in the laws/regs, I've read, allowing for the modification of the OEM structure of the rig. IE removing structural steel, or welding steel directly to the existing structure.

Again, I suggest you research your state and the Fed laws / regulations carefully before you modify your ride.

I will say this;
I can't talk definitively about the laws or liability, because frankly, I am not an attorney, insurance agent, or a qualified expert.
What I posted above is NOT advice, it's just my opinion.

Please do your own due diligence and talk with someone qualified to give you advice on this subject.
Author:  tommudd [ Sun May 27, 2018 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
brianb1998 wrote:
I keep coming back to this subject in my head. Wouldnt a full length steel bumper that goes end to end also negate that portion of the crumple zone? I gotta say the more and more I think about it the more I am leaning towards pursuing this path.


All wrong
and do not pursue it unless its going to a trailed rig only
Author:  Torchie [ Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CHOP CHOP
Man I just cant seem to post pictures. I would love to show off my extreme liberty.
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