A few questions regarding sagging suspension, roof rails etc

ender9994 · **Joined:** Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:59 pm **Posts:** 11

Hello everyone, I am planning on making a couple of things for my KK in the next few weeks including:
Steel roof rails with attached basket
Tube doors
Front bumper

Issue 1: I have a JBA suspension on it that has sagged quite a bit in the front since I installed in 1.75 years ago. I went with the non-diesel 4" springs, a 0.375 clevis spacer, and the top strut plate based on recommendations from other users. I am the point in front that even my 30.5" tires are rubbing pretty bad. I would like to add just a bit of lift as was wondering if it was possible to add an extra top strut plate, or if upgrading to a 0.5" clevis spacer would do the trick. I was really hoping the JBA coils would have been pretty sturdy, but that didn't seem to be the case. I wish I had measured distance right after I had put the lift on so I could tell exactly how much they had sagged, but I used to clear 30.5"'s easy. https://ibb.co/hWD4mzT

Issue 2: The tops of my JBA A-arms are extremely rusty. This is pretty concerning that it has not even been 2 years and they are rustier than my stock ones were coming off. Has anyone had issues with these? https://ibb.co/thzk51j

Questions: I am about to start building my roof rails but am trying not to remove the originals immediately because I have extra silicone slathered around the studs as an extra precaution after I fixing my leaky roof issue with marine sealant. Does anyone know if the front and back mounts are level? AKA if it was removed and placed on flat ground, the front and back attachment points would sit flush on the ground.

Thanks for all the help!

lfhoward · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:13 pm

I'll try to speak to some of these things as I have a 4" JBA lift too. My answers will be in bold text.

ender9994 wrote:

Hello everyone, I am planning on making a couple of things for my KK in the next few weeks including:
Steel roof rails with attached basket
Tube doors
Front bumper
Sounds great!

Issue 1: I have a JBA suspension on it that has sagged quite a bit in the front since I installed in 1.75 years ago. I went with the non-diesel 4" springs, a 0.375 clevis spacer, and the top strut plate based on recommendations from other users. I am the point in front that even my 30.5" tires are rubbing pretty bad. I would like to add just a bit of lift as was wondering if it was possible to add an extra top strut plate, or if upgrading to a 0.5" clevis spacer would do the trick. I was really hoping the JBA coils would have been pretty sturdy, but that didn't seem to be the case. I wish I had measured distance right after I had put the lift on so I could tell exactly how much they had sagged, but I used to clear 30.5"'s easy.

I'm a bit surprised it has sagged this much. Mine hasn't sagged more the 1/2" and it's been on since 2013, about 100K miles ago. But I can see from your photo that you are running low in the front. Do you have the JBA adjust-a-struts? If so, just crank them down 1/2" to gain back 1" of lift. If instead you have 4" springs, yes, look into a clevis lift first because it's easy and free, and then if you need a top plate, it can be done. If you think the springs are defective, give Marlin at JBA a call. He's got the best customer service in the business.

Issue 2: The tops of my JBA A-arms are extremely rusty. This is pretty concerning that it has not even been 2 years and they are rustier than my stock ones were coming off. Has anyone had issues with these?

Looks like the tops of the replaceable ball joints are rusty, but the arms themselves are showing just a few spots of rust. These parts get blasted with all sorts of road dirt and salt, so mine look like this also. Wash the undercarriage as often as you can, especially in winter. I don't think this amount of rust will impair function. If you want it to look better, you could hit them with some Rustoleum hammered paint.

Questions: I am about to start building my roof rails but am trying not to remove the originals immediately because I have extra silicone slathered around the studs as an extra precaution after I fixing my leaky roof issue with marine sealant. Does anyone know if the front and back mounts are level? AKA if it was removed and placed on flat ground, the front and back attachment points would sit flush on the ground.
I just bought a roof rack made by AtTheHelm (see the vendor section at the bottom of the home page), so I bet he would know all the angles and distances. You could shoot him an email with this question.

Thanks for all the help!

tommudd · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:08 pm

Trying to figure out what you have exactly
No way can you install a clevis lift with the JBA adjustable coilovers , not possible at all
so take a picture or something to show what exactly you have then we can go from there

quote; have a JBA suspension on it that has sagged quite a bit in the front since I installed in 1.75 years ago. I went with the non-diesel 4" springs, a 0.375 clevis spacer, and the top strut plate based on recommendations from other users, and what users ?
No one that knows JBA coilover lifts would suggest adding a clevis lift knowing it is not possible
so we need to know before we can help you

As far as the UCAs go, I have some that are almost ten years old and still look like new, but then I constantly hose mine out underneath, like anything else they will rust if not taken care of

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just looked at the pictures, your UCAs are not that bad at all, just the bolts
as far as lift, there are no 4 inch OME springs, you get that by adding the clevis and top plate
Plus that is not JBA , it is OME , so what springs did you order Part # 925-926-927 ???
most you get out of OME is 2.5 inches, then top plate adds 1/2 inch so 3 inches then 3/4 for the clevis so you started at 3.5-3.75
so now measure from middle of the wheel to bottom of the flare and report back

ender9994 · **Joined:** Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:59 pm **Posts:** 11

Thanks for the answers. Glad to hear the A-Arms are not too bad (I keep it very clean under there btw).
**EDIT: I think just calling it the bolts is kind of ignoring the fact that the entire upper ball joint is completely rust

In front I have:
0.375 Clevis Spacer (JBA)
Top Plate (JBA)
OME-Front Sport Strut (OME-90009)
OME - Front Coil Springs (2927)
**Oddly enough JBA has deleted my order where I purchased these, but by looking back at my previous post asking for recommendations, I am almost
positive I purchased these because of recommendations.

"so now measure from middle of the wheel to bottom of the flare and report back"

I will measure when I get home tonight and update my post

**EDIT** Spacing measurements (It is not perfectly flat, unfortunately)

Front Driver: 21 3/4"
Front Passenger: 21 7/8"
Rear Driver: 23"
Rear Passenger: 23"

@lfhoward Thank you for your answers. Because he is still selling them, I figured it would be rude to ask for dimensions from ATH (As opposed to something like the tube doors where they are out of production).

ender9994 · **Joined:** Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:59 pm **Posts:** 11

I edited my post above with the values I measured from the center of the hub cap to the bottom of the fender flare. I think going forward I am just going to have to add more lift to the front. I don't currently have the funds for JBA adjust-a-struts so I am going to have to use a cheaper method. I am currently thinking:

Switch my clevis spacers for the 0.5" ones
+
Add another strut spacer plate to the top

- I measured spacing and 2 of the 1/4" spacers will fit. However, I wouldn't really feel comfortable without threads sticking out equal to 1/2 the length of the nut (I work for an engineering lab where we do shock/vibe stress testing of military equipment and other items. Staring at 50,000+ pages of material stress rating books coupled with seeing how everything from doors to joints, to torpedos, hold up under stress testing makes me pretty wary)

My current best options for strut spaces would be to buy another set and machine them down (or maybe even just grind) to 1/8" or possibly buy another set and just use them as a templet for making another set using 3/8" plate.

Are there any easy possibilities that I am missing? I can't have this vehicle out of commision at all really because it is my daily driver.

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:45 pm

ender9994 wrote:

I edited my post above with the values I measured from the center of the hub cap to the bottom of the fender flare. I think going forward I am just going to have to add more lift to the front. I don't currently have the funds for JBA adjust-a-struts so I am going to have to use a cheaper method. I am currently thinking:

Switch my clevis spacers for the 0.5" ones
+
Add another strut spacer plate to the top

- I measured spacing and 2 of the 1/4" spacers will fit. However, I wouldn't really feel comfortable without threads sticking out equal to 1/2 the length of the nut (I work for an engineering lab where we do shock/vibe stress testing of military equipment and other items. Staring at 50,000+ pages of material stress rating books coupled with seeing how everything from doors to joints, to torpedos, hold up under stress testing makes me pretty wary)

My current best options for strut spaces would be to buy another set and machine them down (or maybe even just grind) to 1/8" or possibly buy another set and just use them as a templet for making another set using 3/8" plate.

Are there any easy possibilities that I am missing? I can't have this vehicle out of commision at all really because it is my daily driver.

OMG, wow,

first .5inches of clevis is too much, yes they are sold BUT does not leave much in the clevis, most I do on any of them is 3/8 of an inch
next YOU CAN NOT STACK two upper top plates on top, not enough bolt and just a plain bad idea
next if your measurements are correct you are at 3.75 inches of lift currently
Front on KKs stock was 18 inches
anymore lift you will ( if not already have) spring/ UCA contact in front even with the JBA UCAs
you are about maxed out now

lfhoward · **Posted:** Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:41 pm

^^^^ Tom is our resident expert on lifting (more than 50) Liberties so I would defer to his expertise.

He's right that with these measurements, you are pretty maxed out.

Quote:

Front Driver: 21 3/4"
Front Passenger: 21 7/8"
Rear Driver: 23"
Rear Passenger: 23"

Stock (un-sagged) front is 18" so you have a 3-1/4" lift (3-7/8" on the other side).
Stock rear is 19" so you have a full 4" lift there.
The KK had a front-downward-slant (rake) stock, so the lift kit is just perpetuating that. You could even it out by going with JBA adjust a struts in the front. Tom's right that going much past where you are with regular springs will cause spring-UCA contact when flexing. Adjust a struts have narrower diameter springs to eliminate this problem. Keep in mind that any clevis spacer that you add will double its height at the wheel. So 3/8" spacer = 3/4" of lift at the wheel because of geometry. And I would defer to Tom about the safety of going past 3/8".
You could alternatively eliminate the rake by replacing the rear 4" springs with some OME's that are shorter plus some extra isolators to bring it to about 3" to 3.5". (I don't think I would do that.)
After making any changes, be sure to get an alignment.

Quote:

@lfhoward Thank you for your answers. Because he is still selling them, I figured it would be rude to ask for dimensions from ATH (As opposed to something like the tube doors where they are out of production).

Makes sense. I suggested it because I remembered ATH helping out a LOST member with his homemade front bumper a while ago. If you were just making a rack for yourself and don't intend to sell roof racks and make a profit, I didn't think it would hurt to ask.

ender9994 · **Joined:** Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:59 pm **Posts:** 11

Thank you for the help

I was not planning on putting 2 full (1/4") plates up top. The current plan was to put a single 3/8" plate up there. I have re-measured the threads multiple time and there would still be enough threads sticking out to be plenty safe. However, since that won't exactly help my issue much, I will probably save that for a while down the road. I wish I could justify putting on JBA struts, but considering how many issues I have had with the vehicle, its a tough sell to put $1500 into a vehicle worth $3000

I guess for now I will just have to cut the front bumper a bit and then flatten out the pinch weld. For the pinch weld, I know I could do horizontal cuts, bend each section over, then re-weld so that it wouldn't lose any strength, but I don't feel like that would be worth the effort. I have seen contradictory posts saying how easy it is to bend them over. Does everyone just beat on them with a sledge until they are flat then cover with a sealant?

lfhoward · **Posted:** Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:40 pm

Here is the best punch weld how-to I know of. Definitely bend but do not cut. The pics are of a KJ but we have the same architecture.

https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/how-to-pound-pinch-welds-stop-fender-rubbing.34295/

A few questions regarding sagging suspension, roof rails etc

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