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Split EGR pipe now replaced - photo of faulty pipe is up!
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=47896		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Glend [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Split EGR pipe now replaced - photo of faulty pipe is up!
I was sitting at a light today (on a hill) as I moved away uphill there was a mighty roar from the engine bay (way above normal for the throttle position) and not a great deal of progress. I backed off and the noise went away. I continued down the road for a bit and managed to create the roar and drop in performance simply by putting my foot down. I stopped in a side street to check it out. There were no apparent turbo hose problems and they were firm under the pressure of idling at least. All the belts seemed ok. When I rev'ed it above 2000 it would pop and stutter and basically sounded like it was missing. I decided to limp it home. There was no whoose or wheeze and I was able to creep it up to normal traffic speed by keeping the revs down below 2000 and using easy throtle application. There were no check lights and no codes were displayed. When I got home I stuck the scanner on it and drove it around the block to see what I could see. MAP and MAF seemed normal, temps were normal, but the calc load % was all over the place. I managed to get it to roar and drop performance but it did not show anything definitive on the scanner. No trouble codes in the system.

Its now booked in for service on Thursday (too busy till then they say). Any ideas? Have I popped a hose and it only opens up under load? Is this a turbo control problem? Are my vanes not adjusting? Is it injectors? I admit I have no idea. Help.

:shock:
Author:  cmohr [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:38 am ]
Post subject: 
................ :shock: ..................

Blow off valve?????
Author:  Diggerfreek [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like a hose with a small tear in it right now. If you have an auto, have some one sit in side the KJ, put it in drive and power brake the KJ so at to build boost under load and fell for a air leak by your hoses....
Author:  Glend [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Well I tought I had found the problem but I was wrong.

I have been going over the engine for an hour and found the turbo to intercooler Charge air hose had a loose clamp and moved backward on the intercooler neck by about half and inch. It was still attached but I think it might blow off pressure slightly as the clamp was finger tight - this is now fixed up but I don't think it is the real problem or at least wasn't a major one yet. After fixing that I still had my major problem.

I ran across another plausible - what I thought to be a crack in the vacuum accuator hose from the turbo to the turbo control unit (so perhaps problems with turbo blade advance). When I pulled the rubber boot off the turbo to look at it up close it turned out to just be very clean in the corner and thus looking cracked.

So I am still looking. I will bleed the fuel head next and pump out any air in there.

PS: When I pulled my turbo to intercooler hose off I found it was dry inside (no oil), so I'm very happy about that - but it had some dust in it! Bloody dust gets everywhere.
Author:  pipeliner [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like a problem I've had a couple of times - engine suddenly loses power, feels as if it's only running on 2 or 3 cylinders. Problem disappears quickly (usually when engine is turned off; the problem is not there on restart). Albion couldn't find anything the first time except for a stored code indicating a misfire - well I could have told them that! Second time was in Alice Springs in September.

So no idea what causes it.
Author:  Glend [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have bled the fuel head - no difference. I have pulled out both turbo hoses and swabbed/cleaned them out and inspected them with a torch inside and out - they are in great shape. They may open up under pressure but I can't see anything that would indicate any problems. No change to the problem when they were re-installed.

So I seem to be narrowing this down to the turbo and its controller. It seems to be feathering its vanes into a waste position at certain times when revs rise. There maybe a bad sensor somewhere in that area. Its going in to Peter Warren first thing tomorrow, I may call Jeep Assist to truck it in as I don't want to drive it like this.

:(
Author:  cmohr [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think it was Palla who had a dodgy turbo replaced, you could ask him what His symtoms were??
Author:  Glend [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
There she goes, another LOST casualty. Sad site.

Image :(
Author:  cmohr [ Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry I cant get pictures hee at work, Whats the problem???
Author:  Glend [ Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well Graham at Peter Warren rang me back just now and they have found the problem. The EGR pipe is split! and this is bleeding boost apparently. I would have thought that this would only bleed boost when EGR is open and I thought it would be closed during 'load' periods but I guess I could be wrong. So the EGR pipe change is a 6 hour job (all under warranty thankfully) but the part has to come from Melbourne (of course) so they may not get it done by close of business tomorrow. He tells me he has only seen one other incident like this. Lucky me!

I tell you I am very tempted to take steps to disable EGR in the future (say via the blanking plate approach). Live and learn. CRD owners beware of this problem, its rare but that's two that Peter Warren has handled (and these are late model KJ CRDs still under warranty. I shutter to think what this would cost if out of warranty - but I think I could change it myself if I had to - better to disable the bloody thing. :cry:
Author:  palla [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good to see you are back on the road, did you get a job card from the workshop? I wouldnt mind knowing what the parts list is & if we can get a price on those parts.
Author:  Glend [ Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not back on the road Yet. Just to make sure my service experience was not too positive, and even though they had the parts early on Friday, they managed to start my job too late to finish it on Friday. I guess warranty work takes a low priority is comparison to pushing through $200 oil changes. Bitter not me. Never met a dealer service centre yet that exceeded my expectations (which I admit are never very high for them). :wink:

I'll be asking for the old EGR pipe so that I can photograph the failure and post it up.
Author:  palla [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Glend wrote:
I'll be asking for the old EGR pipe so that I can photograph the failure and post it up.


Awesome work as usual Glen, would be good to get as much info as possible on this one.

Just on the warranty work tho, the dealer still sends out an invoice, just not to you, the money comes back from Jeep either Australia or the US, so really it shouldnt get put to the bottom of the jobcards pile. Cmohr mentioned my turbo was replaced, under warranty & the service from the dealer I used was really good, took them a while to fault find as the fault was intermittant but they had no issues about changing stuff out at DC (at the time) expense.
Author:  Glend [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:13 am ]
Post subject: 
I have picked up the KJ and all seems back to normal. After I had a chance to talk to the mechanic I appreciate the scale of the job they had to do - they had to drop the transmisison slightly to get this thing out (talk about great design work - not engineered for easy maintenance). I am attaching a photo of the faulty EGR pipe so everyone knows what it looks like and where it will fail. Sorry for the photo quality but it was taken on my phone and they would not let me keep the pipe to photo it properly. There are comments put on in red so that you can tell what is what. They had to cut the EGR valve end piece off for some reason to get the thing out. It is clear from its position on the back of the engine that it would never be field repairable, which begs the question 'What do you do if it breaks on a corrugated track somewhere west of Whoop Whoop?'.

I was told by the service manager that the 'new' pipe is made much better than the original one. The originals had a couple of shallow spot welds on the end where it clamped to the exhaust manifold, where as the new ones have a complete thick ring welded flange on that end. The obvious question is why don't they recall these things, but I guess the amount of work required to change one sort of explains that. It won't be a problem for my son's jk CRD because they use the 'new' pipes. I do wonder when they changed over. As my KJ was one of the last built I suspect that all the KJ CRDs running around in Australia (that have not already had this fixed) will have the problem at some point.

For your information here are the part numbers for the new pipe and the new clamp used to fix this up:

Pipe EGR to Manifold CHK68020537AA
Clamp, Int. Pipe CHK05142994AA

Image
Author:  palla [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:05 am ]
Post subject: 
So I can find this little beasty somewhere behind my motor between it & the firewall near/above the bell housing?
Author:  Glend [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Palla, it runs across the back from the exhaust manifold to the back of the EGR valve. If you look down the back just behind where the EGR valve assembly is (look down below the fuel head and to the left) you can see the EGR end of the pipe. The manifold end is hidden from view from above. Others seem to have been able to remove it from above by removing the fuel head assembly to get to the EGR bolts. Check some of the AJOR posts on this topic for 'instructions' on how to do it without moving the tranny. The manifold clamp will be the hard part apparently.
Author:  Smerf [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Split EGR pipe now replaced - photo of faulty pipe is up!
A mate of mine in the Landcruiser club has just sold his 2007 KJ crd with around 100000klms on it. He has had the EGR pipe replaced twice under warranty. The trade-in offered on a new jk unlimited crd was $18000.00 and this vehicle was in good condition with 50mm lift, TJM bar and spots.He went elsewhere of course. :frankie: :seuss:
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