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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:49 pm 
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you all know it cost more to make ethanol fuel than gas right? its not the answer. we couldnt make enough to fuel the whole country anyway. living in one of tha highest corn producing states, they've been talking about this on tv for a while

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Jeger wrote:
Go talk to a livestock farmer about ethanol....you may get a different perspective.


Most of the cattle/hog farmers I know arent too thrilled about it.
I beg to differ,my father breeds Pure breed Black Angus and he loves the ethanol plant that just opened a few miles down the road,he gets the left over from making ethanol for feed,30tons for $100.Oh and half the land he rents to his crop growing friends for a discounted price to grow corn which he gets for a discounted price to.Win/win either way he goes.Not to mention he gets the triple tax deduction when he burns the corn in the house for heat in his corn burner.

Not to mention I get paid by the government not to grow anything on my land,sadly it ends this year :cry: ,guess I'll make some money planting corn :wink: .

All the gas stations in SD have ethanol blended gas except the low grade gas,which makes it 10 cents more expensive then the mid grade gas,my KJ loves the 93 octane,15% ethanol blend gas from back home,runs really good and I get my best mpg's from it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:30 pm 
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Ethanol is a sucker product for those who are in love with government handouts and destroyed ecosystems. And all the talk about recycling feed dosen't seem to be producing any action, after all prices are hitting all time highs despite production being at all time highs. And then there is the fact that corn is squeezing everything else off the land, resulting in accross the board price increases in basics like wheat.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
Ethanol is a sucker product for those who are in love with government handouts and destroyed ecosystems. And all the talk about recycling feed dosen't seem to be producing any action, after all prices are hitting all time highs despite production being at all time highs. And then there is the fact that corn is squeezing everything else off the land, resulting in accross the board price increases in basics like wheat.
Man you hate everything,you got a negitive remark for every single thing out there in the world.Suprized to see you own a deisel since they are more poluting then a newer gas engine.

Ethanol is not a sucker product,is it a product to help with the oil problem? No it is not but has it's benifits.No one I know that grows corn(and is not there only crop) recieves any government help besides the tax right offs when it gets recycled back into the farm as seed,feed,and heat.Out of about 30,000 acres of my fathers and friends not one bushel goes to a ethanol plant(only about 7000 acres are corn,rest is wheat and soybeans),which there is 6 of them in a 75 miles radius.All goes to cattle feed,seed for seed company's,and home heating.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Um, first off, a diesel is only more polluting depending on what pollution you consider more important. A diesel puts out slightly more NOX than a gas engine, but puts out about 30% less CO2. So it depends on your priorities as to which is more important.

Secondly, good for your father, but thats got nothing to do with the ethanol issue. Obviously not all corn crops are being diverted, however 20% of them last year were according to the government, and that is severely impacting everyone's food and feed prices. Ethanol producers are getting major tax breaks and rebates as well, regardless of whether your father is(as you said, he isn't producing ethanol).

And no, I'm not negative on everything. I'm negative on 'solutions' that are anything but, and that make the problem worse. People look for answers that require no effort and champion them regardless of the facts. In truth the only way to look at any proposal is critically, if the proposal is truly worthy it will answer the criticisms over time and gain acceptance, real answers do not require wishful thinking.

You'll note that I am a booster of algae based biofuels, I've known a couple people working on it and they do have answers for the difficult questions. I am also a proponent of nuclear power, there are several examples now of nations becoming 100% energy independant(except for transportation needs) on nuclear and there is little reason the US should not be following suit, most of the issues people raise with nuclear have answers that are being used around the world, but they are stuck in the 70's mentality.

I look at proposals and attempt to shoot holes in them. Its in my nature, in my line of work I am a 'test engineer' and I break things for a living and have for more than a decade now. The end result of thorough testing is a solid product/service/solution, and those that fear that criticism are revealing either their own lack of knowledge or their concern that the proposal will not hold up under scrutiny.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:03 pm 
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You'll note that I am a booster of algae based biofuels, I've known a couple people working on it and they do have answers for the difficult questions.
That's a good one,and you think ethanol ruins nature.Guess you don't want clean drinking water but fuel for your CRD.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:46 am 
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Um, the reason algae is a good solution is that it can grow just fine in salt water, it does not require potable water like ethanol and normal BD are.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:43 pm 
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well i ordered the kit today so it sould be about a week until i get it. so we shall know for sure i guess. Right now my average MPG is around 13.6 to 17.2 depending on where im driving.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:12 pm 
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let us know how it goes...I now live in a state that has e85 so I use it in my wifes minivan , but I wanna try it in my kj....I have put almost a half tank mix of e85 and regular gas with no warning lights or problems before ( for all those who want to try) and the caravan my wife drives runs the SAME as it does on reg gas ( for those who have flex fuel caravans and havent tried yet) . On a side note, I have lived in florida (no e85 local) since my wife bought her caravan new in 04. We moved to NC (e85 available here) a couple months ago and have been feeding it to the minivan with no problems, and it didnt get its first taste of e85 until it had 70k miles on it and still didnt give me any issues. I know there are pro's and con's but it seems to work the same and cost less......so I use it when I can. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
Um, the reason algae is a good solution is that it can grow just fine in salt water, it does not require potable water like ethanol and normal BD are.


you fail to realize that you can make potable water from saltwater or greywater. i dont know if you are educated about things such as osmosis or distilation but that pretty much solves the clean water problem. The internet is not always a really good place to find reliable information. I you go to any professor at a better school and say your going to use the internet for source information their going to laugh you out of the room.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:19 pm 
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C co Crusader 2/127 wrote:
Reflex wrote:
Um, the reason algae is a good solution is that it can grow just fine in salt water, it does not require potable water like ethanol and normal BD are.


you fail to realize that you can make potable water from saltwater or greywater. i dont know if you are educated about things such as osmosis or distilation but that pretty much solves the clean water problem. The internet is not always a really good place to find reliable information. I you go to any professor at a better school and say your going to use the internet for source information their going to laugh you out of the room.

You should inform China about that, they are panicking about their water situation, apparantly its just that simple. ;)

The truth is that greywater is simply water recycling, and it only works to a point(and has nothing to do with wasting water on farms), and saltwater is NOT easily desalinated, the process is energy, space and time intensive, its not suitable for large scale water production. We are coming up on a water crisis, even in the US, and that has nothing to do with 'internet sources', plenty of respectable scientific magazines are publishing articles about this on a regular basis now.

You may wish to read up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_crisis
But then I suppose you might not want to get 'laughed out of the room' by your college professor...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:31 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
C co Crusader 2/127 wrote:
Reflex wrote:
Um, the reason algae is a good solution is that it can grow just fine in salt water, it does not require potable water like ethanol and normal BD are.


you fail to realize that you can make potable water from saltwater or greywater. i dont know if you are educated about things such as osmosis or distilation but that pretty much solves the clean water problem. The internet is not always a really good place to find reliable information. I you go to any professor at a better school and say your going to use the internet for source information their going to laugh you out of the room.

You should inform China about that, they are panicking about their water situation, apparantly its just that simple. ;)

The truth is that greywater is simply water recycling, and it only works to a point(and has nothing to do with wasting water on farms), and saltwater is NOT easily desalinated, the process is energy, space and time intensive, its not suitable for large scale water production. We are coming up on a water crisis, even in the US, and that has nothing to do with 'internet sources', plenty of respectable scientific magazines are publishing articles about this on a regular basis now.

You may wish to read up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_crisis
But then I suppose you might not want to get 'laughed out of the room' by your college professor...
First wikipedia is a joke and mostly lies since anybody can change stuff on there.Most of there so called facts have been debunked on 60 min and other national news programs in the past year.

Second they have been using desalinated water in the middle east in very large volumes for years,it can be done and for fairly cheap but the start up is costly is all,after that it's very cheap to continue the process.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:41 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
Reflex wrote:
C co Crusader 2/127 wrote:
Reflex wrote:
Um, the reason algae is a good solution is that it can grow just fine in salt water, it does not require potable water like ethanol and normal BD are.


you fail to realize that you can make potable water from saltwater or greywater. i dont know if you are educated about things such as osmosis or distilation but that pretty much solves the clean water problem. The internet is not always a really good place to find reliable information. I you go to any professor at a better school and say your going to use the internet for source information their going to laugh you out of the room.

You should inform China about that, they are panicking about their water situation, apparantly its just that simple. ;)

The truth is that greywater is simply water recycling, and it only works to a point(and has nothing to do with wasting water on farms), and saltwater is NOT easily desalinated, the process is energy, space and time intensive, its not suitable for large scale water production. We are coming up on a water crisis, even in the US, and that has nothing to do with 'internet sources', plenty of respectable scientific magazines are publishing articles about this on a regular basis now.

You may wish to read up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_crisis
But then I suppose you might not want to get 'laughed out of the room' by your college professor...
First wikipedia is a joke and mostly lies since anybody can change stuff on there.Most of there so called facts have been debunked on 60 min and other national news programs in the past year.

Second they have been using desalinated water in the middle east in very large volumes for years,it can be done and for fairly cheap but the start up is costly is all,after that it's very cheap to continue the process.



hooah.... enough said; way to go tj

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:32 am 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
First wikipedia is a joke and mostly lies since anybody can change stuff on there.Most of there so called facts have been debunked on 60 min and other national news programs in the past year.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?N ... 51&Cr=&Cr1
http://www.nrdc.org/international/summit/summit3.asp
http://www.peopleandplanet.net/doc.php? ... section=14
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/WORMKA/
http://water.org/waterpartners.aspx?pgID=907
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiap ... out.water/
http://www.nrdc.org/international/summit/summit3.asp
http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/role/p ... 7water.htm
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?p ... enters19af
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HG21Df01.html
http://www.earth-policy.org/Books/Seg/PB2ch03_ss6.htm
http://www.greatlakesdirectory.org/zart ... rtages.htm
http://bbsnews.net/article.php/20070819122845423
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/TFBE.php
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory ... /story.htm
http://www.peopleandplanet.net/pdoc.php?id=3024
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/jul/24indus.htm
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001 ... 22327.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3998967.stm

I was trying to make it easy on you with a simple summary, but if you insist on being an booty and not addressing the facts presented, go find them yourself. You'll find the evidence is overwhelming. This is not even in dispute, it is simply a fact, the water resources of the planet are dwindling faster than oil or anything else, and the population is continuing to grow.

Quote:
Second they have been using desalinated water in the middle east in very large volumes for years,it can be done and for fairly cheap but the start up is costly is all,after that it's very cheap to continue the process.

I'd like to see your source on that. While it is true that desalination is most widespread in the middle east, even there it does not produce a significant portion of their water supply, and much of the Israel/Lebanon/Jordan conflict has to do with control of the Jordan River, the primary water source. Furthermore, desalination is *only* viable when one has an excess of energy, and that situation is fairly unique to the middle east. It heavily damages coastal habitat as well, which is a major problem.

But ultimatly, as stated before, it simply does not work on a large scale. Comparing its ability to supplement the water supply in a metro area does not in any way demonstrate that its capable of being the main supplier of water for large scale farming(60% of water consumption today is for agriculture). In the US you'd have to coat our coastlines with nothing but desalination plants, and the middle of the country would have to be nothing but power plants, all so that we could spend that water growing corn for ethanol. Thats patently ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:39 pm 
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those the bought the conversion kit how is it holding up and do you still run E85?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:55 am 
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Just wanted to bump this thread. Has anyone had any success with installing an E85 conversion kit on their KJ or KK?

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 Post subject: Re: E85 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:37 pm 
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I have an ford E 350 van and it is flex fuel e-85 compatible. I get about 2 miles les per gallon than reg 87. But better power as I pull my rv trailer with it. Right now e85 is 1.96 and reg octane 87 is 2.35. So its good as far as price. I get 15mpg on reg and 13.7 mpg on e85. We are at an elevation of 5261 feet and I believe i burn more because of less oxgen at this elev. when i go to tucson I get 15 mpg the same as my reg 87 gas.

I am wanting to change over my 2012 jeep liberty limited to e85. is there a place i can get the computer module for the jeep to make this change? i saw the e285 site is four hundred but i believe i can find the same product for less woith some of you helping. :pepper:


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