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 Post subject: The Oil folk are starting to fight back...
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:24 pm 
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another way oil is starting to trick us into thinking that alt fuel is bad...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/busin ... yt&emc=rss

just as long as everyone keeps super sizing the french fries im good!

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:56 am 
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The CEO of Conoco Philips was on the Today show this morning, basically telling Americans that high gas prices are our own fault, and that if we can decrease demand, prices will moderate. That's the downside of living in a free market economy, I guess. I just can't believe that no one foresaw the end of cheap gas; or if they did, they've been downplaying it to keep selling inefficient cars and trucks. A little advanced notice would have been nice.

The oil and auto industries have screwed with our heads for years. We've been brainwashed on a mass scale. Although demand for gasoline has steadily been outpacing supply, car makers have largely kept their heads in the sand (hoping we would, too) and pumped out more gas-guzzling SUVs than ever before. We've fallen for this cruel joke while they continue to profit (okay, not so much for car makers -- esp. in the U.S.). Gasoline cost about $1.50/gallon when I bought my new Liberty in June 2003. The price has more than doubled in only four years, catching many Americans off guard. Mini-van gas mileage isn't much better than KJs', so young families are getting squeezed at both ends as the cost of earning a living (and practically everything else) is outpacing income.

Alternative energy? How about alternative transportation for starters? How about smarter implemenation of rail and bus service? How about making riding a bus respectable again instead of someting stigmatizing? I love my KJ, but I've been saying for 10 years that if my city had reliable public transportation, I'd take advantage of it. I've used subways, trains, and buses in NYC, San Francisco, Paris, Miami (Metro Rail), and London, and these places get it. American cities need to wake up and follow their example. Doing so will reduce traffic, reduce pollution, and help citizens keep more money in their pockets. It's a win-win situation. I'd gladly give up my Jeep Monday through Friday!

I'm expecting a signifcant bonus next month, and I'm seriously considering the purchase of a Yamaha or Honda scooter for my daily commuting during the warm months. Maybe April - October in Indianapolis.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:36 pm 
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I'll ride the bus if it will come 10 miles out of town to my farm and pick me up. I'll by a Prius if it will get me to the farm in a blizzard and still able to go out and check my fencelines, round up cattle, etc. I bet with a number of modifications I could get that little car to pull my 300 gallon fuel wagon out in the field. I have met the environmental nazis half way though, I got a Liberty CRD that will do ALL of these things and still get in the high 20's fuel mileage consistently.

We could easily save a LOT of fuel by just driving sensibly. No wasted trips, trying to run with the pack on the freeway, racing to the next traffic light, etc. And we wouldn't have to give up our larger vehicles or drive a rediculus 55 mph. I got 30.3 with the CRD on my last 800 mile trip and I did 65-70 most of the time. Just applied a little effort into driving more sensibly.

Oh.. Like those biofuels, but will not get exited about using them. Don't believe a viable long term solution and not cost effective.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:07 pm 
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I live right on the edge of being suburban/rural. Most people in my area
commute to the city to work while I go the other way. If public
transportation was available in my area it certainally would not be of any
help to me going to work. But, I would definitely support higher taxes
to support public transportation (bus and/or rail) because I know that
when I DO have to go into the city there would be fewer vehicles on the
road and less traffic.
So I say go ahead and add a .50 to $1.00 tax on road fuels, as long as it
goes to public tranportation. Those who complain will have to learn to
"adapt and overcome."
IMO the tax should only be on gasolene not diesel. That way there would
little effect on costs to transport goods. But then I guess you could say
that I am a little biased toward diesels. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:47 pm 
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Just another excuse for the Oil companies to keep fuel prices high.

In the same way, the farm lobby is attempting to push ethanol on us, completely whitewashing the impact it is going to have on food prices, feed prices and other unintended consequences that were not thought thru. Not to say Biofuels is not an idea with merit, but as implemented today, is not the solution that the media says it is.

Now the auto industry is gearing up to produce hybrid's with toxic battery packs that will wear out in less than 10 years and cost as much as the vehicle is worth to replace. The Auto Industry has finally figured out how to make an auto that must be replaced every 10 years. They are jumping for joy. Certainly not a conservative (read as Conservation) solution.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:16 pm 
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If a company/city/country...anyone, wants to operate a public transportation service, it should be a self supporting operation. It should be able to run on the tolls it collects from the riders. If the operation cannot support itself it doesnt need to be there, and I dont want any of my money going to it. Would you buy stock in a company that you knew was going to fail?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:58 pm 
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Jeger wrote:
If a company/city/country...anyone, wants to operate a public transportation service, it should be a self supporting operation. It should be able to run on the tolls it collects from the riders. If the operation cannot support itself it doesnt need to be there, and I dont want any of my money going to it. Would you buy stock in a company that you knew was going to fail?


Normally I would agree with you but it is exactly that reason that most
transit companies have discontinued service. As more people commute by
car, the fewer riders on busses, trains, etc. Fewer riders= less revenue.
Profits drop, and service eventually stops. Meanwhile, more and more
people commute by car, traffic increases, and so does pollution.

There is no way I could start my own transit Co. I would never be able
to get enough investors to even get started. They would all say "are you
stupid? No one is ever going to ride it!" Given the examples from the past
it is hard to argue this point. So the question is: How do you get people
out of their comfortable, beloved cars and into public transit?

Now, I don't know how it is where you live, but where I live (Jacksonville
area) traffic sucks!
Tax revenue would have to be generated locally to solve a local broblem.
There will be lots of people who would be against such a tax because they
believe no one will use a public transit system. Yet they will continue to
complain about traffic. Orlando is an example of a public transit system
that works efficiently and produces revenue, but it took some time and a
lot of public funds to make it that way. BTW, traffic in Orlando sucks too
but I hate to think what it would be like without this bus system.
L.A.'s MetroLink is another example of a good system that took lots of
time and tax revenue to make work. MetroLink riders pay a little more to
ride the train than to drive their car but the benefit is realized when they
whizz past all the cars stopped in traffic in the freeway.

The point is that without tax dollars from state and local governments
none of these projects would have ever gotten started. In the beginning
there were lots of people who said "I will never allow MY tax dollars to be
used for a stupid mass transit system that NOBODY will use." And they
were wrong.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:59 pm 
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Quote:
Normally I would agree with you but it is exactly that reason that most
transit companies have discontinued service. As more people commute by
car, the fewer riders on busses, trains, etc. Fewer riders= less revenue.
Profits drop, and service eventually stops. Meanwhile, more and more
people commute by car, traffic increases, and so does pollution.


But you can't force people to use mass transportation. It has to be in there self interest to use it. A mass transit company has to be efficient, figure out where the most profitable routes are and cut the less profitable routes. Private firms are more efficient at determining how to move the most people for the least amount of money because they have a profit motive.

Thats impossible for publicly owned transit companies. Decisions are political, They can't cut unprofitable routes and they add service to losing routes for political reasons. Public transportation will never be efficient because they don't have to be. All they need is another levy to pay for the new service.

Mass transit is not in MY best interest. I live 1 mile from the train station, and my workplace is about 1.5 miles from a train station, both close enough to walk. But to get where I want to go, I have to take it downtown Chicago then back out again. total price of taking the train exceeds the ~$9.00 per day it costs to drive my own car to and from work, and I would spend more than triple the commute time.

I live 17 miles from work. To live closer, I would have to spend about twice as much as my current home is worth to get something of comparable size and quality.

I travel quite a bit for work, but the train doesn't even go to the airport. Again, I'd have to go downtown then catch the EL back which is another fare, and to be sure I got there on time, I'd have to pad in considerable time.

I do take the Airport shuttle sometimes, it is a private company that picks up at the local hotels and drops off directly at the terminal. Time is comparable to driving, and the cost is comparable to leaving my car in long term parking for a 5 day trip.

I would take public transportation, but it just doesn't go where I need it to go, and takes too long to get there. My time is worth a lot to me

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Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.
My build page- RL Komodo Rear and TJM Front Bumper, armored, lifted, JBA Steel D30, 4.10s and ARB air lockers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:35 pm 
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flash7210 wrote:
I live right on the edge of being suburban/rural. Most people in my area
commute to the city to work while I go the other way. If public
transportation was available in my area it certainally would not be of any
help to me going to work. But, I would definitely support higher taxes
to support public transportation (bus and/or rail) because I know that
when I DO have to go into the city there would be fewer vehicles on the
road and less traffic.
So I say go ahead and add a .50 to $1.00 tax on road fuels, as long as it
goes to public tranportation. Those who complain will have to learn to
"adapt and overcome."
IMO the tax should only be on gasolene not diesel. That way there would
little effect on costs to transport goods. But then I guess you could say
that I am a little biased toward diesels. 8)


Remember that EVERTHING you buy would go up in cost because the transportation industry will have to pass on the costs of the increased fuel tax, including the price of fuel just to deliver it. I agree, people will have to adapt. Like spending more for food, toilet paper, electronic gadgetry, and everything else.

I have only one truck, but that truck covers an average 150K miles a year at a relatively good 6.7-7 mpg average. Your $1 fuel tax would increase my costs by $23K a year. Multiply that by over 2 million trucks that deliver goods every day in the U.S. We will pass these costs on to the consumers, pure and simple. Just to support a government controlled and implemented public transit system that will be about as effective as health care at the Veteran's Administration.

No skin off my rear. I will just pass the cost on to you. But, be careful, you might just get what you are asking for..... legalized sodomy of your person and wallet.

Oh... by the way... show me one time in the history of fuel taxes that gasoline was taxed without diesel being taxed for road use. Once you open the possibility of increased fuel taxes, the politicians eyes light up and they see nothing but a way to fund their pet projects. And of course, there can be no discrimination! So.... diesel will get taxed as well. The old usual arguments will apply and we all will get nailed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:37 pm 
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Well, most of Europe dosen't tax diesel at the same rate as gas, in fact their diesel prices aren't much higher than ours, for precisely the reasons you bring up.

That said, you talk about 'passing on the cost' as though your not going to pay it yourself. However a more accurate description would be 'spreading the cost' since unless you do not purchase anything you will be paying those higher prices as well. Not that I don't understand that this is how things are paid for, but the simple fact is that that is how taxation and government work in the first place, if a majority of people want something funded, a tax is placed on everyone to fund it. Everyone ends up paying at all levels of the supply chain.

I'm fairly anti-tax, but I do support fuel taxes since the pay for the roads and transportation infrastructure. And honestly, every person who gets on a bus or train is a person I don't have to have in my way on the road. Thats fine by me.

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 Post subject: Wanna sex today?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:39 am 
Hi people!
Find a real sex partner for tonight
G'night )))


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 Post subject: Re: Wanna sex today?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:23 am 
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Prailireems wrote:
Hi people!
Find a real sex partner for tonight
G'night )))

You know, the funny thing is that I do wanna sex tonight. But I think my fiance might be upset if I told her she wasn't a 'real sex partner'. ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:56 am 
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Reflex wrote:

That said, you talk about 'passing on the cost' as though your not going to pay it yourself. However a more accurate description would be 'spreading the cost' since unless you do not purchase anything you will be paying those higher prices as well. Not that I don't understand that this is how things are paid for, but the simple fact is that that is how taxation and government work in the first place, if a majority of people want something funded, a tax is placed on everyone to fund it. Everyone ends up paying at all levels of the supply chain.



"passing on the cost" would be what would happen. If my operating costs per mile via a fuel tax increase go up, that will be put on the shipper/receiver who then will include the cost in the product they are moving. If you thing the transportation industry is just going to "eat" the cost of increased fuel taxes, roll me one of what you are smoking.

Look.... all of us will get the cost at the pump for our private vehicles, but anything, including the cost of the fuel we buy, will go up to absorb the increase cost of fuel taxes imposed on the transportation industry. And unlike Europe, the Feds and the States impose a HIGHER fuel tax on diesel than on gasoline now. Their argument is that since diesel fueled vehicles are ususally heavier, the increase taxes are needed to compensate for increased wear and tear on the roads by trucks.

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2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.


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