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Installing an HHO System and need a vacuum line
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=35967		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  jmoomaw [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Installing an HHO System and need a vacuum line
I personally know several people who are working with a garage locally (not an internet sales) with HHO technology. Both have seen very reasonable mileage improvements (28-40mpg!). We are going to install a system later this week. I would love to see 35 mpg with my Libby CRD.

We need to run a switch to turn the onboard generator on when the engine is running. It has to bee independent of the keyed on position. It can be a vacuum switch or electrical relay.

I have been reading the shop manual over. Lots of good stuff but poorly organized for newbies to find specifics.

Any help would be appreciated. I'll let you know..good or bad how it goes. Initially, the HHO test smoothed the engine down and cleaned out the exhaust gases so they were almost breathable.....!

Jim
Author:  jmoomaw [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Using the vacuum resevoir...drivers side.
it looks like we will use the line from the driver's side vacuum reservoir. The trick will be to set the switch to a higher vacuum because their will be a vacuum after the engine is turned off...

Any suggestions are still appreciated.
Jim
Author:  jmoomaw [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  System is in....
Tom installed the HHO generator today. I have an ampmeter and emergency shut off switch in the cockpit and a vacuum switch so the generator is only running when the engine is running. We need to adjust the vacuum switch as it is staying on at this point. A little Allen Wrench action to tighten things up should do it.

The immediate response was definitely more power. The acceleration was similar to an old turbo Volvo I had. The throttle positions I was used to were quite different. I had trouble staying at the speeds I was at before without paying close attention. I kept creeping upward.Engine idled much smoother and didn't rattle as much with low rpms. The engine temp was clearly one increment lower than before.

All unscientific information, just a sense of how things were different. Tomorrow I fill up and run a tank of diesel through her. I understand it takes a few tanks to clean out much of the crud before all the HHO becomes available for combustion.

More to come.

Jim
Author:  jmoomaw [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Update
It has now been 2 weeks and a couple of days. Here is what I have:
1. No mileage increase....should come next week
2. Soot around exhaust pipe is reduced to a very thin layer.
3. Check engine light is going on and off...before it was staying on all the time.
4. Engine continues to run very smooth.


We installed a larger generator to move more HHO through the system to clean things out faster. More HHO = more power. It is amazingly obvious how much more I have....

More next week.
Author:  Dje Ryu [ Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Got any pics of your setup? I'm trying to figure out where to install the HHO generator canister.
Author:  jmoomaw [ Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Generator install
Hi,
We put the generator behind the rear seats and strapped it in with a tie down to the floor. The HHO hose runs down behind the back seat through a grommet under the body zip tied to any existing set of electric lines to the engine. It runs up along the fire wall, behind the engine and then into the air vent.

Not sure how to post pictures yet.

The generator is larger than most because it uses water only instead of an electrolyte. Draw 15 amps and produces about 18 liters per hour.
Author:  retmil46 [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:52 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm in the midst of constructing my own small HHO generator as well. I'm using the basic design of what is called the Smack booster, but with quite a bit of modification from the original design to correct it's obvious flaws.

For a guideline, I'm using the info/how-to books from a company called Eagle Research, www.eagle-research.com , to construct mine. Their version of a HHO generator is called the Hyzor. About 3 years ago, I tried a few of their fuel saver devices on an old '87 Subaru gasser I had, and they worked quite well - bumped up the old beast from 23 to over 35 mpg. From what I've seen, their info is solid with no BS, and I've no doubt their HHO design would work as well.

I've no doubt you could easily exceed 30 mpg. With the mods listed in my signature, plus the ORM/SEGR to turn off the EGR which I don't like to publicly advertise, I've been hitting 25 combined/33 interstate with mine. With the proper amount of HHO, and perhaps some of the other mods discussed on LOST, I'd say that it's not outside the realm of possibility to push 40 mpg interstate with a CRD.

ER advises to start with the lowest amount of HHO you can dial your generator down to, and then gradually bump it up until you no longer see a fuel mileage increase - they also say that too much HHO will actually decrease fuel mileage.
Author:  jmoomaw [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  I'll check out the site....
the smaller amount of HHO is exactly what we are working on today. We just ran a very large generator to "clean" out the engine . The results are consistent with a study I just read from another thread...more smoke. My tail pipe is sooting up more.

We downsized to a small generator today and I will run it for a week to see what mileage I get now.

Good to see others are experimenting with HHO. I believe it is a valuable addition to our tools. I will be working with the inventor to petition NYS to make exceptions for HHO low emissions vehicles for all the anti=pollution devices that do more damage than good.
Author:  VTNomad [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  HHO
Dje Ryu wrote:
Got any pics of your setup? I'm trying to figure out where to install the HHO generator canister.


I plan on installing mine next to the flux capacitor.
Author:  jmoomaw [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Pics of my HHO system
Here are a few pics to view. The generator is anchored in the rear of my jeep with the HHO hose snaked behind the backseat, through a grommet and up into the engine compartment. It enters at the air box but the end of the hose extends about 4 inches past the MAD sensor.

http://www.picturehosting.com/images/jm ... system.jpg

http://www.picturehosting.com/images/jm ... astmaf.jpg

http://www.picturehosting.com/images/jm ... rewall.jpg

It is a different than most of the systems on the market now. Uses straight water instead of KOH or NaOH which makes the generator larger than others.

I will be building a rack for all my tools and bins and a section of it's own to house and protect the generator. Heat is also a factor so I will be insulating it and installing a small heating coil to plug in when I plug in my block heater.

Hey, does this mean the Jeep is really mine!!!! :wink:
Author:  retmil46 [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Might want to find someone with a OBDII code reader, or drop by a local auto parts store, and find out what the CEL is that keeps cropping up.

Offhand, my first guess is it's related to the MAF sensor in the air intake. Since you have the generator outlet hose extending past the MAF sensor, the ECM is seeing a discrepancy between the sensor reading and what air flow should be, throwing a CEL - my guess again would be something along the line of MAF Hi/Low Range Error.

That in itself could be skewing the results. On one SEGR install, I saw where a bad capacitor in the SEGR box caused the ECM to get a consistently low reading from the MAF sensor, which negatively affected performance and fuel mileage.
Author:  Peregrine [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  MPG figures?
What happened with your system, would love to see your mileage results posted. I was thinking of adding a LP or Natural Gas bleed into my air intake on the CRD. Heard good things about mileage increases.
Author:  jmoomaw [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Well...it has been an adventure..
I am running at 25.4 mpg for mixed driving. I was at 22 earlier so it isn't much of an increase.

HHO systems typically do not work well unless the engine is in good running condition and clean (on the inside). From what I have read, I am getting better mileage than most in here.

I have been throwing emissions codes since I bought my Libby two months ago. Installed the provent and samco hoses, clean the map and maf sensor and am still throwing codes. I am also having trannie issues.

I have had the HHO system in for a month and a half. The soot on my tailpipe is almost gone. Just a thin layer left instead of the 1/8th inch of soot that was there before.

I may have to replace or clean the CAC (intercooler). Any goop in the engine, turbo or lines will react with the HHO until it is clean. Then the HHO will be available for the combustion.

The installer has has someone who has run 5 tanks before they saw an increase. I have run 2500 miles or 5 tankfuls. The Libbies are definately more dirty than a unleaded vehicle so I still haven't given up. The exhast gases are very different when I run the HHO than when I do not. I would love to see an emissions comparison.

So that is the update. So far a 10% increase. I am still keeping my fingers crossed for 40% or 30+mpg.
Author:  jmoomaw [ Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Update
It has been a while. I have smooth out the problems...at least the emissions issues.

The Engine Light was a MAP sensors that needed replacing.

I have been running the HHO generator for 4 months now. We have tried different amounts of HHO and have not had significant results. A few miles per gallon only. It makes it hard to determine if the increase is from my driving or the HHO.

What is very apparent is the change in soot and the smooth running of the engine. The HHO hits the engine after about 15 seconds. She rattles a bit and then soothes out. I call always tell when the HHO generator isn't working right because the drop in power if obvious.

The layer of soot in the tail pipe has dropped considerably. It is a very thing layer compared to the flaky crust that was there before.

We are still playing with HHO amounts. I have run at .4 liters per minute and now at 1 liter per minute. We tried to go at .2 liter's per minute but the generator ended up cracked and unusable.

That's where we are at now. Wish I had better results to share.
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