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 Post subject: I am shocked I agree with Bill Clinton on Ethanol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:13 pm 
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I own a CRD and my wife a TDI and don't want to knock BioDiesel that I have used from time to time.
I do own gasoline powered off road equipment. My small engines do not like ethanol blends and soon we will have the EPA forcing us to use E-15 that will make them run worse than E-10.
Don't want to discuss politics, but he makes sense, I can't argue. You all know I would if I had a reason.
Yahoo News AP
Here is the article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110225/ap_ ... biofuels_4

WASHINGTON – With global food prices rising and more corn being diverted to the production of ethanol fuel, Bill Clinton is warning of food riots in poor nations.

The former president told farmers and Agriculture Department employees on Thursday that while producing biofuels is important for reducing America's dependence on foreign oil, farmers should also look beyond domestic production and consider the needs of developing countries.

"I think the best thing to say is we have to become energy independent, but we don't want to do it at the cost of food riots," Clinton said.

Clinton's foundation has worked to develop agribusiness in African countries such as Malawi and Rwanda. He said the United States needs to look at the long term, global effects of its farm policy.

"We know that the way we produce and consume energy has to change, yet for farmers there are no simple answers," he said. "There is a way for us to do this and to do it right."

At the department's annual Agricultural Outlook Forum, chief economist Joseph Glauber said food prices are expected to rise this year and corn use for ethanol will continue to grow. He said 37 percent of all U.S. corn production could be used for ethanol by 2012.

The ethanol industry long has said that its production does not significantly drive up food prices and that the price of corn contributes to a tiny percentage of every food dollar.

"The driver behind rising food prices has been and remains oil," said Matt Hartwig of the ethanol industry group Renewable Fuels Association. "Rising oil prices, even before the unrest in the Middle East and Northern Africa, have made everything we buy from food to clothes to oil more expensive."

Other industries have contended that ethanol contributes to food price spikes, affecting their bottom lines and consumers, too.

After years of subsidizing ethanol production, Congress has taken an increasingly skeptical look at the fuel as food prices have fluctuated and cutting spending has become a legislative priority.

More than $5 billion in ethanol tax credits were extended at the end of last year as a part of an end-of-session tax deal. But the new Republican House passed two amendments to a spending bill last weekend that would attempt to slow ethanol use.

Even longtime supporters of ethanol in Congress have acknowledged that the country's mood may mean less support for the ethanol industry.

Glauber said that corn-based ethanol production is currently running at more than 13 billion gallons a year. Congress has required refiners to blend 36 billion gallons of biofuels, much of it ethanol, into auto fuel by 2022.

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 Post subject: Re: I am shocked I agree with Bill Clinton on Ethanol
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:29 pm 
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Follow the money trail!
If we use more renewables more dollars will stay in the US!
I doubt you eat cow corn or use WVO on your salad.
The ethanol industry uses strictly coarse grains, not food grains like rice, wheat and sweet corn.
The federal government says ongoing and growing research will optimize cellulosic feedstocks and make them primary feedstocks for biofuel production. These include energy crops such as switchgrass, hybrid poplars and other prairie grasses, and residues such as corn stalks, wheat straw, forest trimmings, sawdust, wood chips, yard waste, municipal solid waste and even animal wastes.

The United States could produce 40 billion gallons of ethanol a year – equivalent to 20 percent of current gasoline demand – from agricultural residues alone. And crops such as switchgrass can be planted on marginal land, reducing the need to use productive cropland or forests for energy crop production.

U.S. farmers have historically responded to market signals and produced more corn when needed, usually on the same amount of acreage, and are expected to do so again this planting and growing season.

Personally I like biodiesel because I can produce it myself and use it in my CRD. 8)

http://www.25x25.org/storage/25x25/documents/Position%20Paper/25x25_food_versus_fuel_faq.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: I am shocked I agree with Bill Clinton on Ethanol
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Proven fact: Takes "more" all around "total" energy to produce one gallon of ethanol. I don't remember the exact ratio, but this was all over the internet several years ago, many years ago. Ratio was like almost 2 to 1 in relation to petroleum fuels used in the farming, manufacturing, shipping etc. down to the product at the pump. Also, can't come close to producing enough to ever take the place of fossil fuels, and crops always have more risk to natural disasters that can wipe out the crops. Flood, drought, fire. The greenie powers to be are the only ones that would get super rich over the whole idea. I'm totally NOT for it.


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 Post subject: Re: I am shocked I agree with Bill Clinton on Ethanol
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:42 pm 
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Just anothe one of those MYTHS: More energy goes into producing ethanol than it delivers as a fuel.

FACT: In terms of fossil energy, each gallon of ethanol produced from corn today delivers one third or more energy than is used to produce it.

* Ethanol has a positive energy balance – that is, the energy content of ethanol is greater than the fossil energy used to produce it – and this balance is constantly improving with new technologies.

* Over the last 20 years, the amount of energy needed to produce ethanol from corn has significantly decreased because of improved farming techniques, more efficient use of fertilizers and pesticides, higher-yielding crops, and more energy-efficient conversion technology.
* Most studies that claim a negative energy balance for ethanol fail to take into account the energy contained in the co-products.

* Future ethanol will be produced increasingly from cellulose found in crop residues (e.g., stalks, hulls), forestry residues (e.g., forest thinning, wood byproducts), energy crops (e.g., switchgrass, sorghum), and sorted municipal wastes. Some promising energy crops grow on marginal soils not suited for traditional agriculture.

It's only one piece of the solution. What ever I can do to keep my few bucks in the US, I'll try it.

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 Post subject: Re: I am shocked I agree with Bill Clinton on Ethanol
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:10 am 
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Sorry to disagree with you, but ethanol has much less btu's than gasoline and I do have the facts straight about the energy involved in it's production. Takes much more ethanol to move a certain amount of weight due to the fact that it produces much less power than gasoline at the same speed and distance.

Been following the subject of ethanol for the past 35 years. The information a person finds now on the subject is mear propaganda to make a bunch of people very, very wealthy. So I we agree to dis-agree on this subject is a mute point.


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