It is currently Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:08 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:13 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am
Posts: 227
Nothing would make my wife happier than a trip to the bay area and napa valley. Good to know I have that potential. I would glady return the favor, as my filling station is always open.

My daily driver and pizza delivery car is a 1985 300D that I have had for a few years now. I started doing grease in 2000 when diesel was $1.399 a gallon. I have done atleast 20 conversions. And I have owned many different ones. My first was a 93 Mercedes S300 (rod bender) and then at the same time I got a VW Dasher. Then a Jetta, a few 80's 300sd's, an 82 Nissan/Datsun Maxima, the 95 Dodge CTD was my most miles vehicle. I probably should have kept the Isuzu Pup diesel but the easy money to sell it was something I could not pass up. I once converted and ice cream truck semi from the late 80's.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD -- Spare tire replaced with Veg tank, semi filter for veg, FPHE, Electric common rail line heater, fill vegetable oil tank every 3 days. ORM, EHM comes out in front of the passenger rear tire. Wife has new job and 20 mile round trip to work. I borrow her Jeep a lot and live in South Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:52 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:13 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Tampa, FL
acuboy wrote:
I was thinking of adding a Green Diesel Engineering tuning package. I met a guy a few houses down from me who runs biodiesel in his crd and he swears by it. Do you use anything similar? Anyway, I'll go out in a minute and take a bunch of pictures to add to this thread. It will probably answer most questions. Did you change your filter housing to the upgraded one released by Chrysler? Any issues you've had that I should watch out for?

thanks
duncan



I would be interested to know more details of your neighbor who runs biodiesel, ie., concentration (B100?), duration (how long has he run biod?), any issues, if you would be willing and able to get them.

I have run about 100k miles on very good quality WVO (run through a 1600G centrifuge) on a 1985 MB300D (20k) and 1997 VW Passat TDI (80k). The Passat is getting its second rebuild (244k miles with 40k on WVO and 284k with 40k on WVO, it seems like 40k was the limit). I had a Plantdrive complete 2 tank kit with 2 FPHEs and 3 3-way valves. The 3rd valve is indeed to help prevent cross contamination of the diesel startup/shutdown tank. I used a turbo timer to delay the 3rd (purge) valve swicthover so that the return would go to the VO tank until the timer shutoff and then it went to the diesel tank. I set the timer to 8 minutes so I ran 8 minutes of 'purge' to the WVO tank before switching back to diesel. I also have a fuel temp sensor just prior (1 inch) the IP, and never switched to VO before 160F. BTW, the water temp would read 190F but the fuel temp wouldn't be close to 160F so don't think that once your engine is up to temp that your fuel is also.

I hope your VO experience is more successful than mine was. I believe I was more meticulous than most regarding adherence to proper practices (quality proper two tank system, extra heat, delayed switchover, LONG purges, VERY clean WVO (verified through Blackstone Labs zero percent water). I even ran (and still do) Auto-RX to clean the bottom end and Seafoam to clean the top, as well as water-meth injection to help clean the top end. I changed the oil every 3k miles and ran it past Blackstone Labs each time to monitor wear. However I am running high performance injectors, elevated boost and tune that may have contributed to buildup. Also I have had long drives at steady speeds that I probably should have 'enjoyed' more (made more aggressive use of the accelerator) to help prevent buildup. But the bottom line is even with all of my precautions I still experienced stuck rings after about 40k miles of WVO use. And this time the intake valves had so much deposit buildup that they couldn't be cleaned and reused. I can post pics if you are interested. I still saved about $4500 in that period which is more than the $2500 rebuild costs, but two builds is enough for me. And now that I have discovered how to produce biodiesel for about 50 cents per gallon it makes more economic sense to do so. I know the TDIs run well on biodiesel so I am interested to learn of your neighbor's experience on the CRD.

Again, I hope you do well with the WVO system. I used to believe that I would run on WVO forever, but it just isn't worth it to me now (being able to produce biodiesel easily and inexpensively now is obviously a BIG part of that decision). I would just caution you to be very careful and VERY observant of your vehicle and its condition. I think you have made a wise choice with the Plantdrive system and would encourage you to use three valves to enable a purge cycle of sufficient length to be CERTAIN you don't send VO to your diesel tank and install a fuel temp sensor so you are CERTAIN the VO you send to your IP is 160F (regardless of whether your system is automated, you still need to know the temp). Best of luck.

_________________
2002 Jeep Liberty CRD 2.8L diesel (perhaps unique in USA)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:03 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am
Posts: 227
I personally do not think 160 into the common rail is enough temp I use an electric rail heat and the temps are more like 190F. Mine has a soft start also meaning that the veg oil is looped and it is a blend of diesel and veg until that is burned up. My flush is diesel in and flush to the veg tank.

I know a local TDI owner I give grease to every once in a while and he has 150K miles on WVO on his Jetta. 230K total miles. Still runs great. Your situation is not the standard.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD -- Spare tire replaced with Veg tank, semi filter for veg, FPHE, Electric common rail line heater, fill vegetable oil tank every 3 days. ORM, EHM comes out in front of the passenger rear tire. Wife has new job and 20 mile round trip to work. I borrow her Jeep a lot and live in South Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:52 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:13 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Tampa, FL
I am afraid it is. Check tdiclub.com and look at their alt. fuels section. Tons of examples of engine failures. Very few success stories. I am not saying it cannot be done, but as I said I am VERY cautious and meticulous, I followed what I believe most would consider extremely prudent practices to the extent of almost being anal. But now my second rebuild (as did my first) disclosed the same symptoms that so many have discovered before: stuck rings. And as I said before, I wish all of you going the VO route the best of luck and I hope it works better for you than it did for me.

BTW, most info I have seen from kit vendors (ie, Plantdrive) and in general (ie, biodiesel.infopop) is 158 degrees Fahrenheit (although some on the biodiesel.infopop forum now speak of 150) for a minimum VO temp at the IP to ensure proper injector function. I used a 12V Vegtherm just prior to the IP when necessary, to ensure fuel temps were not below 160 when on WVO which was only on cooler days, otherwise it wasn't necessary. Of course I had the VO line looped after the VO filter helping to retain heat and ease the stress on the IP.

_________________
2002 Jeep Liberty CRD 2.8L diesel (perhaps unique in USA)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:00 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am
Posts: 227
The common rail on the CRD is a large diameter rail. The one on a dodge CTD is long and thin by comparison. I feel the CRD rail acts as a heat sink in reverse. It cools the hot fuel off.

Everything is a risk.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD -- Spare tire replaced with Veg tank, semi filter for veg, FPHE, Electric common rail line heater, fill vegetable oil tank every 3 days. ORM, EHM comes out in front of the passenger rear tire. Wife has new job and 20 mile round trip to work. I borrow her Jeep a lot and live in South Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:15 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:49 am
Posts: 60
Sorry to hear about the rebuilds. The Plantdrive people are well aware of the tdi woes and believe a lot of the problem is due to cross contamination and polymerization in the oil. They recommend using mobile1-synthetic truck oil for the CRD and doing oil changes at about twice the normal interval. Also, they highly recommended, and I went with, a vegtherm mega prior to the injectors. I believe I have plenty of heat at the injectors and I use extremely clean oil. This is an evolving art, however. Plantdrive has many satisfied TDI customers with high miles on SVO. Mine is only the third CRD they have converted, so there is not much data. I am in touch with one of their previous CRD customers and he is a high mileage salesman. He has many SVO miles and so far no major issues. I guess time will tell, but I'll keep you all posted. I will check in with neighbor about his biodiesel CRD. When i talked to him last he'd never had any issues.

The GDE tune made a big difference in the drive quality of the CRD. It also seemed to solve the strange surging symptoms i had when driving on svo for a long time. The only issue is that the jeep now seems to run a bit cooler, so switch over time is a little longer.

take care
acuboy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:10 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am
Posts: 227
I changed my thermostat and my temps went up. I purchased a factory replacement also. I was trying to get one of the modified replacements with the 195 thermostat but I never did. The gauge on mine now points straight up. Where before it was inbetween 1/4 and 1/2 with 1/2 being straight up.

I am working on having my old thermostat converted to a changeable thermostat element instead of replacing the whole unit.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD -- Spare tire replaced with Veg tank, semi filter for veg, FPHE, Electric common rail line heater, fill vegetable oil tank every 3 days. ORM, EHM comes out in front of the passenger rear tire. Wife has new job and 20 mile round trip to work. I borrow her Jeep a lot and live in South Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:58 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:24 am
Posts: 364
Location: Indiana
Very nice setup and thanks for the pics.

I have a few questions. I added up the costs you listed. They came to $2k. Does that mean the installed price was about $3k?

Also, why did you not lay the tank flat? Coul you not but a insulatied blanket over it and then throw a sheet of plywood over it (carpeted, of course, to keep the spouse happy) to keep the storage area more usable and the weight distributed?

I've never messed with this and wonder how much additional work it would be and hidden costs. If I did your calculation correctly, I could have this system pay for itself in 6 months with the number of miles I drive. (4 dollar diesel at 24 mpg converts to 12k miles).

I'm intrigued, I even see that there is an installer in Indiana.
B2

_________________
2005 CRD Sport - "Blackie"
Tow Package
Trac Loc
GDE EcoTune w/ unl torque
Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor Tires
over 192,000+ miles
100k mile service performed
5V Glow Plugs Installed and ECM updated
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:35 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am
Posts: 227
Flat tanks are really not good for veg oil because they let air in to the fuel system. If you loop the fuel it is even worse. Have you seen the picture of my spare tire tank. His rectangle on the side is also very functional in that it has to get very low for the fuel to move around much. I designed and installed my system for $1300 give or take $100. You can see dietailed pictures in a different post.

Payoff is slightly longer than you are thinking becasue you still have to purchase diesel every 150 miles I need a gallon of veg oil to keep it running. Also we both already had veg oil powered vehicles before converting the Liberty. I know my veg oil filtering has got much better than my first Mercedes in 2000. Gathering and filtering are very hidden costs It is estimated that I spend $10-$20 per month on electricity to filter my grease. From acuboy's discription I think he has atleast $3000 in parts. The Green tune is $500 and the Controller are $500. Custom tanks are usually $10 per gallon($340) hot fox is not cheap he has 3 valves that are atleast $50 each not counting fittings. He has a lift pump also that is a first rate no holding back all out grease conversion. Very impressive on all acounts.

Everything has risks.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD -- Spare tire replaced with Veg tank, semi filter for veg, FPHE, Electric common rail line heater, fill vegetable oil tank every 3 days. ORM, EHM comes out in front of the passenger rear tire. Wife has new job and 20 mile round trip to work. I borrow her Jeep a lot and live in South Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:44 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:49 am
Posts: 60
I wanted a 30 gallon capacity and I also wanted it to fit behind the 1/3 backseat, so I could fold down the 2/3 for storage. With all the parts and install help from Plantdrive I'm into this system for some serious$$$. I figure it'll pay for itself in about 1.5 years with my driving. But, I've been driving on grease with a mercedes for 7 years and I just can't go back to regular fuel. For many reasons I choose to not buy big oil's products if I can avoid it. I'm not trying to start a political discussion, I'm just saying my motivations are more than just the investment return. My mercedes has been a dream on veg and I gotta say the CRD is a blast. I've been driving it everyday and no problems. The GDE tune made a huge difference!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:13 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:38 pm
Posts: 160
Location: The Dalles, OR.
acuboy wrote:
For many reasons I choose to not buy big oil's products if I can avoid it. I'm not trying to start a political discussion, I'm just saying my motivations are more than just the investment return.


There you go! I'm not trying to start a political discussion but:
1. I will never own a foreign vehicle
2. Every gallon of WVO I use is just that much less money out of some sand ...er czar's wallet!
3. If I have to rebuilt every converted motor every 40K I will do it.
4. Obviously acuboy is a Democrat because his life motto is'nt "Me Me Me!"
5. Do something for your Country for once. Stop being so selfish.

Sorry venting.

_________________
GDE FT Ecotune, EHM, Weeks kit stage 1 & 2, Carter 4600 lift pump, Upgraded tranny, Fishing boat hauler!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:10 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:49 am
Posts: 60
Still rolling strong. No problems running on VO. The one thing I've noticed is that after the GDE tune the jeep runs a little cooler. My switch over time is a little longer than I like. I live 15 miles from my work and i drive back and forth with a 3 hour break in the middle. I'm thinking about installing this: http://www.plantdrive.com//index.php?ma ... f2q3o4n4l7

It seems like it would pay for itself pretty quickly

-acuboy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:02 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am
Posts: 227
A brand new Mercedes pump (Bosch) is $99. I have taken them out of junkyard Mercedes (they are in gas and diesel models). This would circulate the coolant faster and create shorter heat up time. You could wire it to turn on with a switch.

That one from Plant Drive is really nice. But do you think it is worth the $300 plus? Where is your thermostat reading? It needs to be straight up. This should take about 5 minutes to heat up unless it is really cold. Is your veg therm turned on from the minute you start the engine. My electric heater heats the diesel and the Veg oil.

If I drive to CA would you be able to give me 50-60 gallons of grease for my return trip to CO? It would be in July.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD -- Spare tire replaced with Veg tank, semi filter for veg, FPHE, Electric common rail line heater, fill vegetable oil tank every 3 days. ORM, EHM comes out in front of the passenger rear tire. Wife has new job and 20 mile round trip to work. I borrow her Jeep a lot and live in South Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:38 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:49 am
Posts: 60
My VO controller has a coolant temp sensor and the computer is set switch to VO when the coolant temp reaches 140. This is usually after about 10 minutes of driving and the temp gauge registers between 1/4 and 1/2. The Vegtherm Mega is constantly on. I have to imagine the temp of the VO post Vegtherm has to be very high. However, I haven't gotten a confirmation from plantdrive as to what the temp usually is. I'm a little concerned my switch over time will be a little too long when winter hits.

Yeah, of course, I can hook you up with 50 or 60 gallons on veg. I always have more than I need.

take care
duncan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:36 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 142
Location: York, PA
Following this thread :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:46 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:49 am
Posts: 60
Well... it happened. The weak point of my design... having the tank in the back. Yes, I flooded the back of the jeep with a fill-up overflow. Luckily, I'm having the jeep detailed and shampooed this week. I won't make that mistake again. I even have a sight glass at the top of the tank, but I was spacing out. oh well...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:22 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am
Posts: 227
I never put a fuel guage in my wifes Jeep and today she ran out of veg. "It just died, and I can not get it started" she tried to prime it but just started to kill the battery I had to drive an hour to get her she was late for work. I hooked it up to my mercedes with jumper cables and primed it and got it going in three minutes.

Maybe I should put a fuel guage in the jeep especially since the sender is already in the tank!

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD -- Spare tire replaced with Veg tank, semi filter for veg, FPHE, Electric common rail line heater, fill vegetable oil tank every 3 days. ORM, EHM comes out in front of the passenger rear tire. Wife has new job and 20 mile round trip to work. I borrow her Jeep a lot and live in South Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:19 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:49 am
Posts: 60
After 7 years I lost my free oil supply to a large biodiesel company. Now my options are .75/gallon for good quality unfiltered oil from the same caterer I've been using or $1.65/gallon for centrifuge filtered 3 micron oil. Or... hit the pavement looking for a new free source. Those of you doing wvo know how important a good oil source is. dilemmas....

The Jeep is running awesome btw...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:51 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am
Posts: 227
I have been doing this since 2000. My main source now is my place of employment. I also have someone who come and brings me dirty grease and I clean it for them. 3 gallons of dirty grease will get you one gallon of clean. I give away a lot of grease also. I live in an easy area for grease.

You live in a very difficult area for grease. Consider bargining your tallents for their grease. I was considering a grease cleaning service. The idea was I will come to your restaurant and clean and refill your fryer for you. It is a virtually free service but I get to keep your old grease.

You have way to much invested in that Jeep to just give up now.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD -- Spare tire replaced with Veg tank, semi filter for veg, FPHE, Electric common rail line heater, fill vegetable oil tank every 3 days. ORM, EHM comes out in front of the passenger rear tire. Wife has new job and 20 mile round trip to work. I borrow her Jeep a lot and live in South Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The conversion has begun!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:53 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:49 am
Posts: 60
Oh, I'll never give up. I don't think I could live with going to the gas pump every week. You're right about it being tough to get free oil in the bay area. However, I've found caterers are largely unapproached by the bio-diesel companies. I lost my source because he was a caterer who opened a restaurant in Berkeley and was immediately approached by a collection service willing to pay for his oil. But, there are a lot of other caterers out there and I'll have to do a little leg work. The other bonus of caterers is that the oil is often very clean, as it is often used to prepare individual dishes. In the mean time I'm willing to pay a little bit for already cleaned oil. Considering diesel is $4.25/gallon out here it's still only a third the price. I'll let ya know how long it takes to find a new source. It's all part of this hobby.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com