It is currently Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:20 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: E85 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:07 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: Kaukauna, Wisconsin
well its been about a month since we installed the conversion kit on my buddys cougar and there seems to be no problems. He is getting a bit worse milage but thats expected with ethanol. So after seeing a sucessful test i think i may make the jump ove to E85 or e100. I have to hint down where he got the kit from. When I do get all the information Ill be sure to post it on here for all that may be interested in being a bit more eco friendly.

_________________
2003 Jeep LIberty Renegade
Rusty's Offroad 2.5in suspension lift w/ rear rancho shocks, Fastman TB, Beam's 4 point harness', custom D rings up front, Custom flowmaster exhaust, JKS Quick sway bar disco's
Hella 500's, General Grabber AT2's on stock rims with spidertrax
coming soon: Corbeau Moab seats, JBA 6"lift


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:08 am 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:50 am
Posts: 1272
Location: Upstate NY
Interesting.......how much? Who makes it....etc......I am curious.

When you get the info, please let us know.

_________________
05 BLACK KJ - 42RLE & NP242
Skids, Hooks, Bent Rock Rail, Lifted, A/T's, etc.
NY and PA and Florida ONF Special Custom Organic Trail Rash


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:43 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 264
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Interesting, as far as I knew there weren't any kits available. This was due to the amount of external and internal mods that would have to be made. Details would be greatly appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:39 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: Kaukauna, Wisconsin
alright here is the link to the site where the unit was bought. After about 5 tanks of fuel in the cougar he is very pleased with the results. Im told by his calculations that after his 19th tank of e5 the savings will have paid for the unit. An hes getting about a extra mile to the gallon. so if someones got the cash sitting around to buy one before i do let me know what happens. If not you all can wait to see how my kj acts with it. I should have the unit bought and installed in early january.

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/StoreFront

_________________
2003 Jeep LIberty Renegade
Rusty's Offroad 2.5in suspension lift w/ rear rancho shocks, Fastman TB, Beam's 4 point harness', custom D rings up front, Custom flowmaster exhaust, JKS Quick sway bar disco's
Hella 500's, General Grabber AT2's on stock rims with spidertrax
coming soon: Corbeau Moab seats, JBA 6"lift


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:40 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:30 pm
Posts: 2482
Location: LOST in Illinois
19th tank of E5??? did you mean E85?

I'd be very surprised if he is getting better fuel mileage. there is less energy per gallon in Ethanol vs Gas.

I have an flex fuel Ford Ranger and I get about 1/3 less fuel mileage running E85 than regular gas. which makes the conversion a wash, E85 is cheaper, but not enough cheaper to break even for the 1/3 less MPG.

_________________
2005 CRD "Ol' Blue"
Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.
My build page- RL Komodo Rear and TJM Front Bumper, armored, lifted, JBA Steel D30, 4.10s and ARB air lockers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:58 pm 
Offline
This member has been Banned

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 567
I don't buy that he's getting better mileage, sounds to me like he either has a calculation issue or he's radically changed some other factor(driving style, some engine component, etc). He should at best be getting 2/3 to 3/4's the mileage he got on gasoline.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:02 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: Kaukauna, Wisconsin
well we just checkd with ford and the cougaris ment to run on a premium fuel. An as stated about the kj im noy last post. I said that was doubting that the libby would be more efficient on the fuel. Now i constantly hear that people are getting crappy milaage with e85. well from what i have experienced. and from concreate evidence gathered; thats not true. Sure there is a bit of a drop but the max ive ever heard of is about a 17% drop. An thats leaning more twords the extreme. I do agree that vehicles made before abot 2001 or 2002 did run a bit worse than that but the tech involved in it has been refined and imrpoved so that theres not a big difference. An i never made any kind of claim that by uning this your going to be a millionaire or your vehicle will run 1000 miles on a tank of gas. All it was ment to do was inform people that there is something that you can use to reduce your carbon footprint, save a bit on gas, and at least make a small effort to save the enviroment.

_________________
2003 Jeep LIberty Renegade
Rusty's Offroad 2.5in suspension lift w/ rear rancho shocks, Fastman TB, Beam's 4 point harness', custom D rings up front, Custom flowmaster exhaust, JKS Quick sway bar disco's
Hella 500's, General Grabber AT2's on stock rims with spidertrax
coming soon: Corbeau Moab seats, JBA 6"lift


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:48 pm 
Offline
This member has been Banned

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 567
1) Its not something you can improve via tech. Ethanol simply has only about 70% as much energy contained within a given volume as gasoline. That can't be made up for by tech(and if it could, since the engine is of the same type/design, such improvements would apply to gasoline equally).

2) Ethanol is turning out to actually be dirtier than gasoline to burn, for a variety of reasons. But thats another discussion entirely.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:07 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: Kaukauna, Wisconsin
alright im calling bull*hit on what you saying about ethanol. I a past argument that i had with you i may have believed it. Now is a different story; I've done more research on it than i even care to think about. Ask any emissions tester if ethanol is dirtier and they would laugh at you. An last; because im done fighting a point with someone that has no clue what their talking about; he is getteing better milage. We sat and figured it all out at work today. Checked, rechecked and to be sure checked it one more time. An its better. We dont know why but it is. If you dont want to believe it thats all your problem not mine. I am just trying to let people know that there is a cheaper alternative to gas. If you want to do something with it go ahead if not i could care less. An show me a study thats been done since about 2005 that shows your 3/4 efficiency.

_________________
2003 Jeep LIberty Renegade
Rusty's Offroad 2.5in suspension lift w/ rear rancho shocks, Fastman TB, Beam's 4 point harness', custom D rings up front, Custom flowmaster exhaust, JKS Quick sway bar disco's
Hella 500's, General Grabber AT2's on stock rims with spidertrax
coming soon: Corbeau Moab seats, JBA 6"lift


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:47 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:30 pm
Posts: 2482
Location: LOST in Illinois
Consumer Reports, real live tests of flex fuel vehicles.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/ethanol-10-06/overview/1006_ethanol_ov1_1.htm
Houston Chronicle on how it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than it produces
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/4618413.html
This from Mother Earth News about the energy of ethanol vs gasoline. I believe they put it at 63% of gasoline.
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me1.html

The fact is that Ethanol doesn't have as much energy per gallon as gasoline. The exact figure could be questioned, but its a big enough of a difference that its indisputable.

_________________
2005 CRD "Ol' Blue"
Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.
My build page- RL Komodo Rear and TJM Front Bumper, armored, lifted, JBA Steel D30, 4.10s and ARB air lockers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:48 pm 
Offline
This member has been Banned

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 567
Ethanol as a pollutant: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/04 ... onwid.html

Ethanol not reducing greenhouse gasses: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story ... sions.html

Do a basic search on google. This stuff takes five minutes to find and there is plenty of non-industry, reputable sources for this information. Few even in the biofuels industry believe in crop based ethanol as any sort of environmental or oil dependency solution, most hold out for cellulose or algae based(which does have real promise).

And no, your friend is simply not getting better mileage. No one claims to get that, so either his calculations are wrong or something has changed(driving habits, engine, weather, etc).

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:19 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:23 pm
Posts: 2
Yes it is possible to get better gas mileage running E85. As a car ages and the miles rack up, compression is lost and fuel system components clog up. By putting on a conversion kit and using E85, carbon and other crap that has been building up is washed out of the engine. As a result fuel flows more freely and compression is increased. The engine will run more efficiently resulting in more power and better mileage. I found a copy of a before and after emissions test on the www.change2E85.com website. http://www.change2e85.com/images/store_ ... 0Scans.pdf It looks pretty much better to me that E85 reduces emissions. I have two conversion kits from www.change2E85.com and they work great! One on my Cherokee and one on my Corvette.

Here is an artice I found on the web:

A recent article in BusinessWeek (BW) investigated the reasons behind the "shortage" of E85 pumps down at your local gas station– a situation which displeases Detroit's Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) compliance-seeking automakers no end. Apparently, Big Oil's to blame. Shell spokesperson Anne Bryan Peebles admitted her employer is not exactly chomping at the bit to install ethanol spigots. Peebles says E85 requires separate pumps, trucks and storage tanks. All in, it costs some $200k to set-up an E85 pump– whilst satisfying the farrago of local, state and federal health and safety regulations surrounding its installation. [Hence almost all of America's E85 pumps are run by independent gas stations. ] Why not just switch-out a standard pump? The American Petroleum Institute says its pilot programs reveal that many flex fuel consumers fill up just once– after clocking E85's 25 percent hit on their fuel economy. So E85's business case is dubious. Just don't expect much sympathy from automakers. "'Big Oil is at the top of the list for blocking the spread of ethanol acceptance by consumers and the marketplace,' says Loren Beard, senior manager for energy planning and policy at Chrysler. What's more, oil company "foot dragging" is set to worsen the current ethanol glut– which could lower prices to the point where E85 becomes profitable enough for oil companies to accommodate with new pumps; providing federal subsidies continue to prop-up ethanol production.

Big Oil is to blame for the myths, rumors and false reports. They don't want ethanol to be successful. So they release false reports on ethanol emissions, costs of production, and other bogus reports and try to get folks, including some of you posting here, to hate it. They even pay reputable companies to publish reports in THEIR favor. GM recently paid Motorweek to do a false report bashing E85 conversion kits and two weeks later announced that they are going to introduce one in 2008 - hypocracy at its best! I come from a farming family and I love ethanol. My pop used to make it and we ran the farm vehicles on it. It has always been a good thing. I'm so glad for ethanol becuase it is supporting farmers like my family and friends instead of going overseas to some sheik or Hugo Chavez. All of the farmers I know have hope for the first time in many years.

Becareful what you read on the web, there are too many people posting their opionions about ethanol and they have never been to a farm. You want the truth, ask a farmer. Us farming families have been using ethanol for over 100 years.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:35 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: Kaukauna, Wisconsin
OMFG there someone else that gets it! Thank you; now i know im not alone. Im debating if im going to buy the bumper of the e85 kit come jan..... tough decision when gas is going to hovering around 4 a gallon

_________________
2003 Jeep LIberty Renegade
Rusty's Offroad 2.5in suspension lift w/ rear rancho shocks, Fastman TB, Beam's 4 point harness', custom D rings up front, Custom flowmaster exhaust, JKS Quick sway bar disco's
Hella 500's, General Grabber AT2's on stock rims with spidertrax
coming soon: Corbeau Moab seats, JBA 6"lift


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:45 am 
Offline
LOST Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 11:44 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Rochacha
not for nothing but that dave justice guy randomly joined on the 28th, and that was his first post.....sorry, im not in your whole debate, i like warm weather so i tend to just leave my truck running for hours on end. :P

_________________
'05 Black Renegade.
Frankenlifted
front/rear hitch with tow hook/d ring
custom Hella 500 cowl mounted offroad lights.
full tints
Ipod wired up
Possbily the first OIIIO Jeep license plater.
"Full" belly protection....who needs a gas tank skid anyways
Just need a bumper...
http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x180 ... eRenegade/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:50 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:50 am
Posts: 1272
Location: Upstate NY
It would be nice to have an alternative to gasoline that gets the same or better mileage and burns cleaner. ......

I read that it costs the auto mfg $100 extra to make a vehicle E85 compliant but the mod on the website is way over $400.

That said, I don't know what to believe anymore about ethanol. No matter, you can't get it around where I live. The closest place would be a 60 mile round trip for me to fuel up.

_________________
05 BLACK KJ - 42RLE & NP242
Skids, Hooks, Bent Rock Rail, Lifted, A/T's, etc.
NY and PA and Florida ONF Special Custom Organic Trail Rash


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:54 am 
Offline
This member has been Banned

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 567
AbsoluteRenegade wrote:
not for nothing but that dave justice guy randomly joined on the 28th, and that was his first post.....sorry, im not in your whole debate, i like warm weather so i tend to just leave my truck running for hours on end. :P

If you note he states right in his post that he's a farmer. The farm lobby has been a prime proponent of the falsehoods of E85, after all they are making billions in subsidies. The FUD about the oil companies is also a common tactice, after all in the US the 'oil companies' are basically distributers, and distributing E85 gains them tax benefits(plus they make a profit selling it).

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:25 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:23 pm
Posts: 2
Reflex- you have no idea what you are talking about and it is amazing that you have an answer for everything and anyone that posts something positive about ethanol. Show me a Brazilian or a USA Farmer that has posted negitive things about ethanol - doesn't exist. Most of the negitive and false information comes from liberal media like the NY Times and perpetuated by ignorant people. You provide no research to back up the facts. Yes I am a farmer and my family has been using ethanol for 100 + years. I have converted 4 of my cars and I am a random poster. If I find false information, I'll post the truth.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:54 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: Kaukauna, Wisconsin
:roll: :roll: :shock: :shock:

_________________
2003 Jeep LIberty Renegade
Rusty's Offroad 2.5in suspension lift w/ rear rancho shocks, Fastman TB, Beam's 4 point harness', custom D rings up front, Custom flowmaster exhaust, JKS Quick sway bar disco's
Hella 500's, General Grabber AT2's on stock rims with spidertrax
coming soon: Corbeau Moab seats, JBA 6"lift


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:48 pm 
Offline
This member has been Banned

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 567
dave justice wrote:
Reflex- you have no idea what you are talking about and it is amazing that you have an answer for everything and anyone that posts something positive about ethanol. Show me a Brazilian or a USA Farmer that has posted negitive things about ethanol - doesn't exist. Most of the negitive and false information comes from liberal media like the NY Times and perpetuated by ignorant people. You provide no research to back up the facts. Yes I am a farmer and my family has been using ethanol for 100 + years. I have converted 4 of my cars and I am a random poster. If I find false information, I'll post the truth.

Gee, farmers recieving mass subsidies from the feds to grow a crop are not complaining, why would that be some huge suprise? Call me back when your common sense surpasses your greed.

Here's some evidence for you, since you've disregarded the links I've already posted:

Ethanol vs. Water: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/displa ... thanolnow/
Ethanol vs. Food: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09 ... yt&emc=rss
UN Ethanol position: http://www.dailytech.com/Biofuels+Salva ... le9436.htm
Ethanol and Co2: http://arstechnica.com/journals/science ... an-forests
Ethanol policy: http://www.slate.com/id/2175327/fr/flyout
Corn farming vs. the environment: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22301669/
Net energy of ethanol production: http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2006/04 ... -than.html

I'm sorry, but your argument is false. You have zero legs to stand on here. If you want to support your case, your going to have to provide some facts, not just tell me that farmers love ethanol. Of course they do, just like inner city poverty it has given them a perpetual method of sucking off the government teat. If you can produce that ethanol with no government subsidy and still make a profit, more power to you, but you and I both know that is not the case, nor will it ever be.

And before I leave you believing I'm anti-biofuel, I'm not, but to demonstrate just how ludicrous your ethanol is vs. alternatives in the field, I'll leave you with this link: http://www.scribemedia.org/2007/12/12/a ... -vertigro/
Quote:
During a 90 day continual production test, algae was being harvested at an average of one gram (dry weight) per liter. This equates to algae bio mass production of 276 tons of algae per acre per year. Achieving the same biomass production rate with an algal species having 50% lipids (oil) content would therefore deliver approximately 33,000 gallons of algae oil per acre per year.

…As a comparative, food crop such as soy bean will typically produce some 48 gallons oil per acre per year and palm will produce approximately 630 gallons oil per acre per year. In addition, the Vertigro Bio Reactor System is a closed loop continuous production system that uses little water and may be built on non arable lands.


C co Crusader 2/127: BTW, actual figures on energy content for Ethanol vs. several other fuels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Energy_content

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:06 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 4:27 pm
Posts: 2130
Location: Dayton, OH
Go talk to a livestock farmer about ethanol....you may get a different perspective.


Most of the cattle/hog farmers I know arent too thrilled about it.

_________________
It may be that your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

06 CRD Sport
Built 5/11/06
Jeep Green
Rocklizard diff cover
V6 Airbox


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com