LOST JEEPS :: View topic - SAFETY WARNING: unplug your fuel heater element

widowmaker wrote:

I had an AUDI

I have an innie, but why change the subject to belly buttons? :lol:

(Sorry, it was too easy, I couldn't resist.)

So...there is one confirmed fire caused by a fuel leak, and several complaints to the NHSTA, and a recall won't come? Humm....that's got to make a laywer nervous. I guess they figure it's better to pay a family a few million when their child gets burned up than it would cost to replace the fuel heads on 10,000 units.

They are rolling the dice on this one without a recall. Either that, or they figured that diesel fuel isn't as highly combustable as gas and it won't catch fire.

I recall the one where the engine quit in the middle of an intersection, whereupon pumping the prime button spewed fuel outta the heater plug - dealer serviced that one promptly, iirc

Just to report. In the last 3 months I've applied dielectrode grease to the heater plug about every 1k miles or so. It seems to have helped keep the small light brown burn from spreading. I plan to keep doing it; Will report if it does spread.

And it is always a great idea to mount a Fire Bottle in a Jeep... :idea:

I wonder if we should get the housing from the Euro Fuel Filter Heads...

I don't think it even has the notorious heater solenoid...someone said it might be a Racor unit.

The fact that we KNOW there is a leak issue with the filter head...mine was replaced at around 6,000 miles with bubbles coming out the fitting...it is at the very least something to consider

Uffe - do you know/have pictures of your Fuel temperature sensor?? - if you note Stan's install he added an extra thermocouple on a connector - but you should have a factory version.

I think Jeep switched for the 05/06 years - so everything in the US is Bosch - and the failure mode is the molded plastic puc that has the temp sensor/fuel heater molded in the plastic - it tends to leak at the fuel heater connection. The leak pulls in air under vacuum and the heater starts burning.

So - the resolution for the solution is an aux lift pump, or lower the fuel manager such that it is not the high point in the system - below tank fuel level would be most suitable for fuel heater longevity, as well as proper operation of the draw-from-tank configuration.

Author:	dritchie [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:49 am ]
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oz_crd wrote: widowmaker wrote: I had an AUDI I have an innie, but why change the subject to belly buttons? (Sorry, it was too easy, I couldn't resist.) Now that's funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Author:	chadhargis [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:33 am ]
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So...there is one confirmed fire caused by a fuel leak, and several complaints to the NHSTA, and a recall won't come? Humm....that's got to make a laywer nervous. I guess they figure it's better to pay a family a few million when their child gets burned up than it would cost to replace the fuel heads on 10,000 units. They are rolling the dice on this one without a recall. Either that, or they figured that diesel fuel isn't as highly combustable as gas and it won't catch fire.

Author:	MRausch82 [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:15 pm ]
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chadhargis wrote: So...there is one confirmed fire caused by a fuel leak, and several complaints to the NHSTA, and a recall won't come? Humm....that's got to make a laywer nervous. I guess they figure it's better to pay a family a few million when their child gets burned up than it would cost to replace the fuel heads on 10,000 units. They are rolling the dice on this one without a recall. Either that, or they figured that diesel fuel isn't as highly combustable as gas and it won't catch fire. Diesel is less combustable, however, it will ignite, and since there have already been fires as a result of this defective filter head, one would think that they would want to fix the issue before someone gets killed or injured and they get sued! It is a safety issue....

Author:	gmctd [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:25 pm ]
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Has anyone actually confirmed any fire directly resulting from fuel heater failure, specifically? One post states 'one confirmed fire', next post states 'already been fires' - see how things quickly get outta hand? The truth is out there................

Author:	MRausch82 [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:47 pm ]
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From what I understand from previous talk about this was that there was in fact one fire due to this, who it was... I do not know. I believe this came directly from NHSTA. There were also some pictures of a CRD that caught fire and it looks to have started in the area of the fuel filter head... can I say that is exactly what happened? No, but it sure as heck looks as if it did. We should all be able to agree that there is indeed a design flaw with this filter head, with air leaks, fuel leaks, and overheating heaters, that needs to be addressed in ordere to rectify several safety concerns.

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SAFETY WARNING: unplug your fuel heater element http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=24616	Page 7 of 13

Author:	chadhargis [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:01 pm ]
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I bleed my filter head every now and then, and I've pulled my heater plug to inspect it. It is a little damp, but I don't see any evidence of overheating. I'm just hoping it doesn't get worse.

Author:	gmctd [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:10 pm ]
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Yeah - but NTHSA ain't gonna listen to 'sure looks like it started there', right? I wasn't condemning you, however, which would be sorta like the pot calling the kettle 'black'. I saw those pics, even referenced them once as reinforcement (read: scare tactics) - the post was to illustrate how rumors can avalanche, such that even the original poster cannot recognize the rumor he mongered.

Author:	Threeweight [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:54 pm ]
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There was a person here who posted about smoke coming from his rig, pulling over, and finding diesel spewing from his heater plug. As I recall, his dealer took care of him uber pronto. Search function sucks, but I'll see if I can find it tonight.

Author:	gmctd [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:43 pm ]
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I recall the one where the engine quit in the middle of an intersection, whereupon pumping the prime button spewed fuel outta the heater plug - dealer serviced that one promptly, iirc

Author:	UFO [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:35 pm ]
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gmctd wrote: I recall the one where the engine quit in the middle of an intersection, whereupon pumping the prime button spewed fuel outta the heater plug - dealer serviced that one promptly, iirc Just a matter of time before it happens again if they replace the heater with the same crap.

Author:	click23 [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:21 am ]
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According to the NTHSA the investigation is still open.

Author:	BankNote4X4 [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:08 pm ]
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Just to report. In the last 3 months I've applied dielectrode grease to the heater plug about every 1k miles or so. It seems to have helped keep the small light brown burn from spreading. I plan to keep doing it; Will report if it does spread.

Author:	Joe Romas [ Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:42 am ]
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BankNote4X4 wrote: Just to report. In the last 3 months I've applied dielectrode grease to the heater plug about every 1k miles or so. It seems to have helped keep the small light brown burn from spreading. I plan to keep doing it; Will report if it does spread. I've had some cases where the DIELECTRIC tune up grease who's original purpose was to insulate and transfere heat actually hardened and caused a intermittent hard to find bad connection on a VW MAF Your reseating the connector is actually cleaning the connector contacts and keeping the situation from worsening. In the past I've owned a couple of Fords that had a yellowish grease like substance in all connectors and bulb sockets. I wish I had a tube of that MRausch82 Diesel has a lower flash point then gasoline so with heat it will burn sooner but will not explode and burst into flames like gasoline truckbouy2 Keep buying power ball tickets

Author:	Uffe [ Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:47 am ]
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DarbyWalters wrote: And it is always a great idea to mount a Fire Bottle in a Jeep... I wonder if we should get the housing from the Euro Fuel Filter Heads... I don't think it even has the notorious heater solenoid...someone said it might be a Racor unit. The fact that we KNOW there is a leak issue with the filter head...mine was replaced at around 6,000 miles with bubbles coming out the fitting...it is at the very least something to consider Hey finally a picture which looks exactly like my KJ fuel filter Just recently changed it and got a bit surprised how most pics in here show the fuel filter setup being so different. I wonder what else might be different. Heaps of problems you guys have haven't been reported here. IIRC european KJs get manufactured somewhere in europe, can't remember which country though. Maybe we have another set of parts in our KJs?

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Author:	ATXKJ [ Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:33 am ]
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That's the Racor 245 - several folks have gone to them (Stan Wright has a good writeup on his web page)http://liberty.eurekaboy.com/racor.htm I think Jeep switched for the 05/06 years - so everything in the US is Bosch - and the failure mode is the molded plastic puc that has the temp sensor/fuel heater molded in the plastic - it tends to leak at the fuel heater connection. The leak pulls in air under vacuum and the heater starts burning. I check mine regularly - I've had the head replaced once under warranty (diesel was leaking out) and I'll go to the Racor after warranty unless gmctd comes up with his better fix..... Uffe - do you know/have pictures of your Fuel temperature sensor?? - if you note Stan's install he added an extra thermocouple on a connector - but you should have a factory version.

Author:	Uffe [ Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:52 am ]
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ATXKJ wrote: Uffe - do you know/have pictures of your Fuel temperature sensor?? - if you note Stan's install he added an extra thermocouple on a connector - but you should have a factory version. The watteli-whatnow?7 I can shoot some pics of my fuel filter assembly for you if you want, but I have no idea why I would want a fuel temperature sensor...

Author:	Goglio704 [ Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:27 pm ]
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ATXKJ wrote: I think Jeep switched for the 05/06 years - so everything in the US is Bosch - and the failure mode is the molded plastic puc that has the temp sensor/fuel heater molded in the plastic - it tends to leak at the fuel heater connection. The leak pulls in air under vacuum and the heater starts burning. Bosch didn't make our fuel heater. I wish the search function on here worked better, I'd link to the thread where that was discussed. Anybody remember where that is? The heater is a POS, and I'm glad Bosch didn't make it. If they had, my opinion of them would be greatly diminished. I've lived the burnt heater thing and still have the burnt piece to prove it. Even so, I'm not sure about the sequence of events. I'm not sure if the leak caused the heater to fail or the failed heater caused the leak. It is easy to wind up with air in the filter head. All you have to do is run too low on fuel. If the key gets left on (as mine did) and the heater is not full of fuel, it could easily overheat and then cause the leak at the plug. Mine burnt at the transition from the plug prong to the heater plate. The melting at the socket was minor compared to what happened inside the heater. It could be a manufacturing defect in the form of a poor connection at the transition from prong to plate.

Author:	gmctd [ Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:25 pm ]
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There is nothing wrong with or defective about the fuel heater - the problem is Jeep's mounting of the fuel manager, borne of necessity and convenience: limited real estate - that, and conformal compliance with Bosch specs: CP3 is designed for draw-type service and does not require aux external lift pump. This resulted in the failure - the fuel manager is way higher than the level of the fuel tank, higher, even, than the CP3 injection pump - air, being less dense than fuel, is gonna seek the highest point in the system - all system air is gonna accumulate in the top of the fuel manager, which eventually exposes the heater element - designed to heat fuel, which is denser than air, it's just natcherly gonna fail in air - that is a given. Dodge uses same configuration, where the fuel manager is way higher than the tank, but they stubbornly ignored Bosch rec's, installing a pre-manager lift pump to ensure adequate fuel level in the head - guess what? - they don't have fuel heater failures over there - and, it's also an epoxied ring at the top of the fuel manager. Mosta you guys are prolly too young to remember, but, once upon a time, all automotive fuel systems were draw-type, where the mechanical fuel pump was attached to the engine block, actuated by a lobe on the camshaft, with no pre-filtration. 'Course, they all used a diaphragm-type pump, most excellently suited to draw-type service - some higher output engines even used stacked dual-diaphragm pumps - the comparatively huge volume-displacement of the diaphragm could pull a lotta vacuum on even the most recalcitrant of intank fuel pickups, right at 30"HG - fuel was not, indeed, lazy in assembling at the pump entrance back then, long ago and far away. So - the resolution for the solution is an aux lift pump, or lower the fuel manager such that it is not the high point in the system - below tank fuel level would be most suitable for fuel heater longevity, as well as proper operation of the draw-from-tank configuration. But, don't even blame that heater for the inadequacies of the system, eh? Uffe - the later Bosch CP3 systems control fuel tank temperature by juggling the return fuel volume - it is controlled by a Fuel Temperature sensor probe in the fuel manager head - your early system, maybe even all the Euro systems, may not have that function - our system will give an official DTC if the sensor is bad or disconnected\missing

Author:	Goglio704 [ Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:43 pm ]
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The nutty part about this is that the OEM fuel filter does allow for air accumulation even though the heater does not. The filter has an unperforated metal dip tube down the center. Sitting level, the upper half of the filter could be full of air, but the outlet would still be submerged. Cut one open sometime. It is a different creature inside than I was expecting.

Author:	Threeweight [ Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:50 pm ]
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gmctd wrote: So - the resolution for the solution is an aux lift pump, or lower the fuel manager such that it is not the high point in the system - below tank fuel level would be most suitable for fuel heater longevity, as well as proper operation of the draw-from-tank configuration. Or simply replacing the stock fuel filter assembly with a Racor 200 series unit, like the ones that came stock on the Liberty CRD's sold overseers prior to the swap to the Bosch CP3 Air in the Liberty CRD fuel system generally seems to originate at the filter head. The heater in the plastic puck presents a problem that is exacerbated by it. Plus the available filters for the stock system are not so hot (10 micron), requiring a conversion to the CAT filters to get good filtration. Swapping to a Racor solves all these problems. Better filtration (2 micron), heater element that works well, no air in fuel, cheaper filters, no leaks. Doesn't mean leaks elsewhere in the system will not present problems, but it is an elegant solution to the filter head. Lift pump in addition to the Racor would be the belt and suspenders solution.