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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:21 am 
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kapalczynski wrote:
WolverineFW wrote:
kapalczynski wrote:
Need some help guys.

The elbow is not a standard pipe fitting. It's metric and not tapered and the larger plastic port coming out is also metric and non tapered.

The small elbow size is an M10x1.25, 9.5mm OD, 5.5mm ID
The large straight port is a M20x1.5, 16mm OD, 12mm ID.

The Outside diameters are measured at the OD of the pipe, not including the nipple flange which gets thicker.

If any of you have any good ideas on where to get these (or similarsize w/ the same thread size/pitch) fittings in brass please let me know.

Any help is appreciated...including if you can even tell me what this type of pipe thread this is called. Remember it is metric size and has ZERO taper.

- Mark



Very likely a ISO/BSPP metric fitting. Do they seal with metal gasket washers? ( or in the case of the plastic one, some other form of gasket washer?)

Seem like rare sizes as well. I can find lots of M10x1.0 adaptors but not M10x1.25. I only found one with a M20x1.5 sizing.


They sealed with sealand to glue of some sort after threaded in. They do not stop and seal against the housing and the elbow relies on the sealant to dry and hold it inthe vertical positiion since it is not a super tight fit.



Are you are positive they are straight and not a tapered thread then? Tapered threads normally use sealants. Those BSPP fittings are supposed to use gaskets...usually metal such as copper. The Banjo bolts use the same thing...copper gaskets. I would not put anything past Chrysler though...maybe they used sealants on straight threads.

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Because they are plastic fittings in aluminum, I can see the reasoning for the sealant with or without tapered threads.


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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:46 pm 
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WolverineFW wrote:
Are you are positive they are straight and not a tapered thread then? Tapered threads normally use sealants. Those BSPP fittings are supposed to use gaskets...usually metal such as copper. The Banjo bolts use the same thing...copper gaskets. I would not put anything past Chrysler though...maybe they used sealants on straight threads.


Yes, positive. they are like a regular metric screw thread, no taper and metric. I am positive. Weird huh? I don't even know where they got the fittings, but maybe they make their own, idk.

The thermostat company that makes them for our jeep is BEHR in italy:

http://www.btti.it/

Its not my language or maybe I'd give them a call, ha ha

Heres the link to their thermostat page:

http://www.btti.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=109&lang=en

Check out their photo's on this page:

http://www.btti.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56&Itemid=66&lang=en

And I thought the CRD thermostat was complex...HA HA

I am not sure, but I think their slogan translates into this:

"At Behr we specalize in taking an ordinary automotive application and inventing a thermostat and heat control system so overly complex that 2nd party customers are forced to go to OEM for parts and you (chrysler in this case) make extra money off them for the life of their vehicle. Not only this, but we spefically design the thermostatic control units to fail in 50000miles or less, GUARANTEED!!!"

- Behr

:-)r

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:04 pm 
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It's Italian automotive engineering at its best: Make it look like a work of art and make excuses when things are constantly in need of repair or replacement.

There's a reason the Audi R8 and the Lamborghini Gallardo, although essentially the same vehicle, have drastically different price, resale values, and quality (incidentally, the R8 is the winner in every category...).

Dan

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:14 pm 
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While kapalczynski kicks some booty working out the details and then processing away his time to help the rebel band of US L'CRDs, is there a way I can keep my diesel a little warmer?
I have the FIA blanket, but can I take some card board and put it right on the radiator itself?
Should I leave some uncovered?
Should I block the engines radiator and not the tranny cooler and intercooler?
Can I block some of the tranny cooler to help it warm up quicker?
Or stop worring so much and just block the whole thing already!

Edit***

After looking at the front, blocking the rad. Is only possible for a portion, so I may look at blocking some or all of the air dam underneath the grill.

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:10 am 
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FormerlyBankNote4x4 wrote:
While kapalczynski kicks some booty working out the details and then processing away his time to help the rebel band of US L'CRDs, is there a way I can keep my diesel a little warmer?
I have the FIA blanket, but can I take some card board and put it right on the radiator itself?
Should I leave some uncovered?
Should I block the engines radiator and not the tranny cooler and intercooler?
Can I block some of the tranny cooler to help it warm up quicker?
Or stop worring so much and just block the whole thing already!

Edit***

After looking at the front, blocking the rad. Is only possible for a portion, so I may look at blocking some or all of the air dam underneath the grill.


You could put some cardboard between the radiator and the grille (sliding it right behind the grille - leaving space in front of the intercooler/radiator) itself to help it stay warm. You have to do this in 2 pieces and fit it around the hood latch lever and by doing this you get about 90% og the grille blocked. This will still allow a gap for some flow and if the clutch fan or e fan kick in it can still pull air from below. Ultimately it needs a thermostat though. If you block it off too much it can get too hot, not enough and it can be too cold. If you block the grille, keep in mind the air flow through the intercooler will still be drastically slowed down unless the engine fan kicks on since it cannot flow much around the cardboard through natural air flow. So if you do this take it easy and don't load the engine much since the intercooler won't be doing alot to cool your post turbo intake temps.

- Mark

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:20 am 
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Annoying/time consuming moving the cars out and heating the garage/cleaning up , moving them back in every time I need to machine...Takes a half a day just to warm it up in there and lathe wont cold start easily and w/o throwing the circuit breaker several times...I NEED A SHOP! :banghead:

I think I will go talk to the home owners association an ask about how big of a "shed" I can build. A small one would be enough for my lathe and a few other things I want to get out of the garage and would allow for quick heating and better work environment where I can go any time I want and not have to worry about cleaning all the metal ships up/sweeping the floor every single time I machine.

Anyway, got all the machining done for the next 2 units so I am good for now...just need to make gaskets, assemble, and buy a couple more thermostats. Still looking into the best route for the brass ports. I think this will work for the small elbow if I can machine a little off of the barbs and thread it just like I did to the trial straight piece:
Image

I might have to order solid brass bar to machine the large straight port out of since I haven't found a brass fitting w/enough meat on them to thread the correct size.

Again, this will probably drive price up more and take more machine time to make so I leave it up to you guys on what you want. In my opinion the large port is plenty strong and it is doubtful it will ever break. They are made out of a fiberous plastic material which is much stronger than regular plastic. The small elbow I did break while trying to remove, but it didn't break easily. It took alot of force turning it and remember these are glued in with a special epoxy type glue. That brings up annother thing. The ellbows all might break during removal and this requires alot more effort to drill the plastic out and use a knife to chip the plastic leftovers out of the first thread or two and then I have to recut the threads with a tap to remove the the rest of the epoxied plastic leftovers that are still in the threads. All that takes approx 1/2 hour, plus the machining of the elbow down to size (assuming i can get the 90º elbow in the chuck to machine it), and cutting threads on the elbow. Machining/drilling/cutting threads on the large piece will take a good bit of time also.

In my opinion the large port is fine, the small one is the only one in question of needing replacement w/brass and that is debatable. Not sure all this is worth it unless a core has a damaged plastic elbow (from pulling too hard during hose removal, damaged during shipping, etc).

I am thinking the elbow will be about $10 each installed and the large straight port piece about $20 each installed made from scratch (since there is no other way).

What are you willing to pay in cost for the full upgrade?

What about just the elbow only upgrade?

Let me know your thoughts on this stuff guys.

I may be able to sub-out the machining of the ports to a friend w/ a mini lathe for a small cost to save time also (maybe just give him some of the leftover scrap pieces since he likes to tinker anyway).

- Mark

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:18 am 
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Personally, I don't see the plastic ports as much of issue... lots of plastics used in modern vehicles to lighten them and keep CAFE fuel requirements have been developed and may be better than the metal alternatives depending on the application. :2cents:

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:40 am 
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Mark, I'm fine with the plastic, especially if you're leak-testing and inspecting each one anyway. Brass is a nice-to-have, but if it not a stock piece and significantly drives up time, cost, and labor, the effort doesn't seem worth it. I imagine if we have plastic failures later in life, there's no reason we can't solve the problem then and leave the rest of the unit intact :)

Dan

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:59 am 
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If the brass fittings are going to be a major pita I have no problem sticking with the plastic. Brass would be nice but it isn't worth such a headache.

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:30 am 
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grsjax wrote:
If the brass fittings are going to be a major pita I have no problem sticking with the plastic. Brass would be nice but it isn't worth such a headache.


Same here.

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:04 am 
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ditto

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Spent $$, and ordered some parts...waiting on them to try some Brass stuff and see if it will be practical to upgrade one or both fittings...more on this when the parts arrive and after I modify/attempt to modify them.

- Mark

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Last edited by kapalczynski on Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:34 pm 
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I'm fine with the plastic fittings. It seems like we could always swap them out individually later on if they become an issue.

On the shop...we have some funny rules where I live too. It's not an HOA, but I live inside the city. They have rules for detached structures like sheds and garages, but as it turns out they do not have rules governing dog houses. And they do not have a maximum size for a dog house. For the first five years I lived here my dog had a 10x14 dog house.

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:41 pm 
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ChesterCRD wrote:
I'm fine with the plastic fittings. It seems like we could always swap them out individually later on if they become an issue.

On the shop...we have some funny rules where I live too. It's not an HOA, but I live inside the city. They have rules for detached structures like sheds and garages, but as it turns out they do not have rules governing dog houses. And they do not have a maximum size for a dog house. For the first five years I lived here my dog had a 10x14 dog house.


Ahhhahaha! Nice!!! May have to look into that. I love loopholes! :D A friend offered me his extra 7.5' x 10.5' rubermaid shed for $300 still in box. I might take him up on the offer since it is removeable and portable for when I move (I'm in the Air Force for those of you who don't know).

Thinking I can cut 4 square holes in the plastic floor, cement four 4"x4" poles deep in the ground and make a heavy duty lathe work bench fit in there. I have access to 2 seperate circuits and could run extension cord from one to the lathe and from the other for the light and small heater. It would be good enough for me and temporary...just dissassemble everything when I move and buy 4 new 4"x4" poles and cement at the next place. Kinda cheezy, but might work.

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:26 pm 
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Mark.

I think about what your doing with your lathe/mill unit (is it a Smithy?) every time I get in my basement :lol: I have 2 South Bend lathes, a 9A and 10L. A Clausing verticle milling machine that has a V/H 8" rotory table, a Atlas horizontal milling machine, a Atlas 7B shaper and drill press :BANANA: And it's all just a hobby :SOMBRERO: Oh and incase the 65 degree basement is too cold I have a natural gas heater :ROTFL:

If you want to make a side trip to Ohio your more then welcome to "make chips" here :jester:

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Joe Romas wrote:
Mark.

I think about what your doing with your lathe/mill unit (is it a Smithy?) every time I get in my basement :lol: I have 2 South Bend lathes, a 9A and 10L. A Clausing verticle milling machine that has a V/H 8" rotory table, a Atlas horizontal milling machine, a Atlas 7B shaper and drill press :BANANA: And it's all just a hobby :SOMBRERO: Oh and incase the 65 degree basement is too cold I have a natural gas heater :ROTFL:

If you want to make a side trip to Ohio your more then welcome to "make chips" here :jester:


Thanks! Are you anywhere near Wright-Patterson AFB? That is a potential assignment location for me. It would be cool if we ended up being neighbors and worked the project together for awhile! It would help get some of these done quickly!

:JEEPIN:

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:30 pm 
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Wright Pat is on the South East side of Dayton and is West of Columbus. It's a straight shot on I-70 and I'm on the west side of Columbus. About a hour or about as long as it takes to warm your garage up :SOMBRERO:
But on a Saterday a lot could be done :!:

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:37 pm 
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Joe Romas wrote:
Wright Pat is on the South East side of Dayton and is West of Columbus. It's a straight shot on I-70 and I'm on the west side of Columbus. About a hour or about as long as it takes to warm your garage up :SOMBRERO:
But on a Saterday a lot could be done :!:


Sounds like about as long as it takes the CRD to warm up with a blown t-stat :P

Dan

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 Post subject: Re: 192 Thermostats: Info/pics/waiting list - moved to 1st p
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Joe Romas wrote:
Wright Pat is on the South East side of Dayton and is West of Columbus. It's a straight shot on I-70 and I'm on the west side of Columbus. About a hour or about as long as it takes to warm your garage up :SOMBRERO:
But on a Saterday a lot could be done :!:


Definately have to plan on a project together sometime If I ever get stationed out there. :)

dgeist wrote:
Sounds like about as long as it takes the CRD to warm up with a blown t-stat :P
Dan


Sounds about right! lol But even if he drove an hour to me w/ a bad t-stat he would still probably get about double my WJ Grand Cherokee's hwy fuel economy. LOL! I have been getting 12 mpg lately in the cold. 12 normal driving in cold and 14 babying it on the warmerish days. I hope for better in the summer, but don't expect much. Not sure on hwy if it would be better or worse. I have 33's (stock is 29" tires) with factory gear ratios so might get worse as I go faster. lol Still all worth the lift though so I can't complain too much :D

Image

- Mark

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