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 Post subject: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:46 pm 
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I'll try to explain the most important map in the ECU ........not always map .......is impossible , but the most important.

no matter what driver in ECM Titanium or other software call this map ,

first , language

Break Point = BP , is the axes X and Y and the Z is the value on the map
Intake Manifold Prex = IMP
Injected Quantity = IQ
Driver Wish =DW
Injection Time = IT

ok , the first map you can find it's the map for your gas pedal and this map it's torque request during acceleration or DW

example on a 808 file

BP is rpm/ voltage -position Z is Nm

Image

the next map is torque requested during standard condition
BP is the same

Image

next map is the FCV function during acceleration

BP is rpm/ mm3 IQ and Z is mg of air

Image

next map is the value for the EGR Histeresy , I think is maf value , there is another metod to delete the EGR , but is another story

Image

this map is the first fuel limiter

BP rpm/ pressure , Z is mm3/100 , this pressure is read by the map on the air box

Image

next map , another fuel limiter

BP rpm / IMP , Z is mm3

this map limit fuel during shifting and I think during lockup

Image

next map is the quantity adjustment , fuel air for best afr

BP rpm/ IMP , Z is mg of fuel , for converting the value in mm3 this is the formula mg/1,13= mm3

1,13 is a factor conversion

Image

this map work in conjunction with the IQ / torque map

next map

is the conversion by the DW in IQ

BP rpm / Nm , Z is the IQ in mm3

Image

next map is the torque limiter for every gear

BP is rpm , Z Nm

Image

the next map is the phase , there are six map that manage the start of injection

the value must be converted in degrees , aproximately , 43 point is one degree , but always watch in graphic mode to understanding well the map

BP rpm/IQ , Z = degrees

Image


next 12 map is the time of the injector opening

BP Rail Prex/ IQ , Z= microsecond

Image

next map is the vgt vane , 3 map

BP rpm/IQ Z= % of the actuator I think
normally many tuners decrease this map if the engine have many mile's due to the usury in the vane that can cause overboost condition

Image


this is the turbo map

BP rpm/IQ Z= BAR/10

Image

in this immage you can see the turbo map , after that there is a one BIT at 2300 , this is the turbo limiter and after this limiter anoter limiter that have

BP Volt/BAR Z=BAR , less atmospheric prex always

this limiter work with IAT

Image

next map is the IMP adjustment

Image

next map is the IMP limiter and work on the EGR like a blow off

BP rpm ,Z= BAR

Image


Rail prex limiter

BP rpm /BAR /10 , Z=BAR/10

Image

next map is fuel rail prex

BP rpm/IQ ,Z=BAR/10

Image

now there is two bit that limit the rail pressure , if you do not touch it the rail do not surpass the 1600 BAR

Image

one bit have 16000 and the other 15997 ,

there is other fuel limiter in the management and if you do not touch it you have a maximum of 100 mm3 , now in short words the management work like this , you ask fuel with DW , the ECU translate te Nm in mm3 from the IQ map , then see the IMP and adjust it , than see the rail prex needed with the IQ requested on a particular rpm , then go in the IT and see how many microsecond the injector must stay open , see the phase and adeguate the turbo .

remember if you increase the rail prex , you shorting the IT opening and do not increase the fuel if you do not fool the ECU

hope this help , BTW this can help to do a nice tune if you know what you do

have a nice day


ps : mm3 and mg must be converted ,example 12500mg /100 = 125 mg etcc

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Last edited by Yeti on Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:24 pm 
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Thanks Yeti, that information is helpful to beginners.

What program are you using to view the tables here?

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:25 pm 
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I use ECM Titanium , with a custom modificated driver from me , but the important is to recognize the maps from the form and know what they say :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:27 pm 
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Yeti wrote:
I use ECM Titanium , with a custom modificated driver from me , but the important is to recognize the maps from the form and know what they say :wink:


Thanks, something about the images you posted made me think it was not ECM Titanium.

I agree, recognizing the maps is what will make it so you can see the same maps in different versions of the software.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:11 pm 
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Looking at those pictures makes me thankful for the tuning software i use on my trucks. Nice big 3d color maps, easy to read tables, etc... Did cost $400, but it makes life sooo much easier.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:46 pm 
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ECM also has the 3d display

Image



:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:47 pm 
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Yeti wrote:
the break point start at 0F4D72 this is water temp in volt but you need a conversion factor , the second break point start at 0F4D82 and this is air temp in fahrenheit /10 and the idle value start at 0F4D8A

:wink:


Idle speed map, courtesy of Yeti. Posting here so it's easier to find in the future, DIY topic is 48 pages already... :mrgreen:


I noticed there's a 5 minute timer for this map on every start, then it will jump straight to 760 regardless of temperature.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:50 am 
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yes there is , but it's an hysteresis if you do not reach the modificatd temp , the rpm stay high at programmed value , thanks to have posted here

for increase the time simply increase the low value of the temp in second BP

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:14 pm 
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tantalized by a private message, I sought the map that could handle the viscous heater , what you think of address 0F5D12 on a 808-806 tune ?
the first break point is formed by 6 bit

2431
2531
2631
2731
2831
and cut at 3231

now for find the temp you must do ...example 2431/10-273 and you have the temp -30 celsius


than the map is cutted at 50 celsius

the second map is idle rpm
break point
2431
2481
2531
2631
2731
2831
2931
3531

second break point is formed by 4 bit
700
800
900
980
the only matching logic for me is this formula

700/10 = 70 F about 21 C when with the scan tool I see the rpm drop at 760 rpm

my logic the engine cranck , the sensor see water temp .example 2831 __10c and see the IAT temp , if not reach the 70 F the rpm rise and stay at 895 rpm , then drop if the water temp rise at 2931 __20 c or if the IAT rise at 70f

let me know what you think

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:15 am 
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no one ?

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:36 pm 
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re: VH, I have it disabled a long time ago using this map, no cold weather here and reduces rough idle when cold and probably saves some $$, felt like running on A/C all the time.

re: idle speed, I've been playing with this map and regardless of temp or values used, idle will drop straight to 760 RPMs after 5 minutes.

Also, my jeep does not seem to follow the temps as suggested below... how sure are you about these readings?... the 20C below seems to be 37ish for my jeep, whatever idle value I put in that column will happen around 37C water temp, not 20C... any clues?

2431 -> -30C
2481 -> -25C
2531 -> -20C
2631 -> -10C
2731 -> 0C
2831 -> 10C
2931 -> 20C
3531 -> 80C

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:45 pm 
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Yeti wrote:
my logic the engine cranck , the sensor see water temp .example 2831 __10c and see the IAT temp , if not reach the 70 F the rpm rise and stay at 895 rpm , then drop if the water temp rise at 2931 __20 c or if the IAT rise at 70f


not following your logic here... during first start IAT will be ambient temp and slowly raise when engine is running... but when jeep is hot and you turn engine off for a couple of mins, IAT goes high around 55C (towards engine compartment temp) and will slowly get down closer to ambient temp when engine is running.

Anyways, to my knowledge, higher idle speed is required 2 conditions: cold engine and high altitude. Based on this, I think one map axis corresponds to water temp and the other to barometric pressure. :juggle:

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:20 am 
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apardo001 wrote:
re: VH, I have it disabled a long time ago using this map, no cold weather here and reduces rough idle when cold and probably saves some $$, felt like running on A/C all the time.

re: idle speed, I've been playing with this map and regardless of temp or values used, idle will drop straight to 760 RPMs after 5 minutes.

Also, my jeep does not seem to follow the temps as suggested below... how sure are you about these readings?... the 20C below seems to be 37ish for my jeep, whatever idle value I put in that column will happen around 37C water temp, not 20C... any clues?

2431 -> -30C
2481 -> -25C
2531 -> -20C
2631 -> -10C
2731 -> 0C
2831 -> 10C
2931 -> 20C
3531 -> 80C

Hi apardoo001 , than you confirm is VH map? and if yes you know the value after the temp ? the next BP early the map ?

this temp -2431 etcc it's for water temp , try to increase of 100 point the BP set at 700-800-900-980 , yes can be atmospheric pressure , I have no certainties on this value , but with a scan tool my rpm drop after the IAT rise at 20/21 c , I live at 1500mt aprox 840 mbar but I feel the same even at low altitude

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:12 pm 
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ok I have found a damos for GC and yes I can confirm that the 700 -800-900- etcc value in the BP it's hpa

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Last edited by Yeti on Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:07 am 
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I live at around 2000m(+/-800 mbar pressure) which would mean it should idle in the 950 rpm range but I don't think I see this. It's not like my water temp or iat is above 80c whenever I start the engine so you would think it would always high idle for 5 minutes, at least on cold starts.

Is it possible it is referring to Manifold pressure instead of ambient pressure. My MAP tends to be right around 980mbar here at a 760 rpm idle so I wonder if it gets the turbo spooled up in cold situations.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:57 am 
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your idle stay at 760 rpm even in low temp ?? like 10-30 F

BTW if the ambient prex it's 800 hpa , your intake at idle must measure near the same value if not there is something in your tune

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:57 am 
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Yeti wrote:
your idle stay at 760 rpm even in low temp ?? like 10-30 F

BTW if the ambient prex it's 800 hpa , your intake at idle must measure near the same value if not there is something in your tune


My point was, if you look at the chart, the RPM's are not varied much based on temperature, the first row is 1000 rpm all the way across the temperature range for example. The 800 row is only dropping from 985 to 935. If the Y-axis truly is ambient pressure, wouldnt our Jeeps(yours and mine since we live at high altitude) always idle higher for the first few minutes regardless of IAT or Coolant temperature? Mine doesnt, it pretty much drops to 760 rpm within about 3 seconds of cranking over with the coolant at 26C and the IAT at 29C.

Image

It appears there may be related idle maps as 0F4D0E and 0F4DD6

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Last edited by mass-hole on Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:03 pm 
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I dont quite understand functionality of the VNT control maps and the Boost map and how they work together. How do the two interact? Does the ECU first adjust the VNT based on the VNT Control map and then back off once it reaches the requested boost in the Boost map?

I had a tune with the boost map set up to 2400 hpa out to 4000 rpm, but when I actually logged the boost it was much lower, especially close to 4000 rpm where it was around 2150 hpa. I went back and increased the duty cycle on the 3 VNT Control maps and that helped get it much closer to the 2400 hpa. Now I am running around 2330 hpa.

Basically, whats the purpose of the Boost map if the VNT map seems to set the actual boost level?

EDIT: Also, is the value at 0F5EE8(07782), directly after the first VNT map in the 808 tune, a maximum VNT duty cycle limiter? Im curious is this is why my engine brake tune never improved after exceeding 75% duty cycle.

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Last edited by mass-hole on Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:48 pm 
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Yeti wrote:
tantalized by a private message, I sought the map that could handle the viscous heater , what you think of address 0F5D12 on a 808-806 tune ?
the first break point is formed by 6 bit

2431
2531
2631
2731
2831
and cut at 3231

now for find the temp you must do ...example 2431/10-273 and you have the temp -30 celsius


than the map is cutted at 50 celsius

the second map is idle rpm
break point
2431
2481
2531
2631
2731
2831
2931
3531

second break point is formed by 4 bit
700
800
900
980
the only matching logic for me is this formula

700/10 = 70 F about 21 C when with the scan tool I see the rpm drop at 760 rpm

my logic the engine cranck , the sensor see water temp .example 2831 __10c and see the IAT temp , if not reach the 70 F the rpm rise and stay at 895 rpm , then drop if the water temp rise at 2931 __20 c or if the IAT rise at 70f

let me know what you think


0F5D12 on the 808 tune is right in the middle of the first VNT Control map. was this a typo? Where is the viscous heater map?

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:26 pm 
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So i Just played around a bit and it seems the 1x5 map located at 0F4DD6 controls idle but only in neutral and park. Once you shift to Drive or reverse it seems to drop back to 760(actually slightly less.) I changed all 5 values from 760 to 1000 and got a 1000 rpm idle regardless of coolant or IAT temp(started from around 27C). I've now loaded a second tune where the first 4 values are 1000 and the final is 760. With the engine at full operating temperature it idles at 760 again. Unfortunately, since the engine is now ~95C, I am going to have to wait a while to test the idle at lower temperatures. Based on the axis values, the idle change should occur at either 40 or 60C.

EDIT: went for a 2 hr mountain bike ride and when I came back the coolant and iat were both 50C. I started the Jeep and it started idling ~ 890rpm and slow dropped linearly to 760 as it approached 60c. So it seems if we want a high idle based on coolant temp, 0F4DD6 is the way to go.

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Last edited by mass-hole on Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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