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 Post subject: Drain plug size, engine oil
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:57 pm 
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When I last changed my engine oil, I checked the size and thread pitch of the drain plug.
First I tested for the thread pitch found on 16mm drain plugs 1.25mm and 1.5mm were no go.
Next I tried a SAE thread pitch and found 18TPI to be correct.
Next I used a micrometer to measure the diameter and found it to be 0.625" = 5/8"

Drain Plug size is 5/8" X 18 TPI which is standard SAE fine thread.
I will build a table of drain/fill plug sizes as I do my maintenance and update

Steve


PS: If you mess up your drain plug and can not find a replacement, use a short 3/4" or 1" long 5/8" X 18 TPI bolt with a copper washer, been there done that.

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Last edited by warp2diesel on Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:45 pm 
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The thread has been reported before as 3/8 British pipe at 19 threads per inch. That didn't really surprise me. SAE threads in an Italian built engine would surprise me...

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Matt B.

05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k


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 Post subject: Generic thread info
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:08 pm 
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Pipe threads are tapered and 3/8" is 0.675" OD X 18 TPI

Here is a link to a chart for pipe thread dimensions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_pipe_thread

Electrical conduit threads are the same OD as pipe but straight instead of being tapered.

Here is a link to the chart: http://www.home4c.com/conduit.htm

Since the plug seals on the shoulder, a Heli-coil or Keen Cert would be a good way to repair a stripped thread in the oil pan.
I have worked with a lot of Mercedes and BMW as well as VWs over the years and have had very few stripped drain plugs on aluminum pans. On the stamped steel I used to keep thread repair supplies in stock.

If can not come up with a thread repair insert and you want to make the ultimate thread repair insert for the 5/8" X 18 TPI, obtain a 1/2 " X 1/4" steel reducer bushing. Put a 1/2" coupling into a Lathe and screw the 1/2" X 1/4" bushing into it and face the end. Next drill out the 1/4" female pipe thread to 37/64" and tap it 5/8" X 18 TPI. Now drill the stripped pan to 23/32" and tap it with a 1/2" national pipe tap. Apply sealing type thread locker (Loctite 290) to the insert threads and screw it in and tighten it down. Screw in your 5/8" X 18 TPI drain plug with a copper washer and it will seal.
I used this trick to fix a lot of stripped drain plugs including steal pans, some times I would braze in the modified pipe reducer bushing on steel pans.

Here is a chart for tap drill sizes: http://www.newmantools.com/tapdrill.htm

As far as the threads in an Italian built engine; they make attachments like oil pans and manifolds to the buyers specifications, that is why it is SAE. Chrysler wanted to fake us out, but it did not work, we figured it out.

Steve

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2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle


Last edited by warp2diesel on Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:14 pm 
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British pipe is commonly available with parallel threads and is 19 threads per inch in the 3/8" ID size. Google it if you don't believe me. I'm betting your thread pitch gauges don't have a 19 TPI leaf do they? Mine don't.

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Matt B.

05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k


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 Post subject: British pipe threads are strange.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:38 pm 
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Withworth is a weird thread that is obsolete for all intents and purposes. None of the British cars going back into the 50's or any of the Perkins Engines I have worked on have ever used Withworth. Besides using weird pitches and diameters it has a 55 degree thread form. I guess they still stick with it for their plumbing pipe sizes so they can fix all their old plumbing.

Here is the link for those who want to entertain them selves on Withworth pipe threads: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_st ... ipe_thread

19 TPI is weird, my gear head lathe does not even have that pitch, I would have to use my mill and index head to make a custom change gear and use my old line shaft lathe to cut 19 TPI pitch.

If any one wants a 3/8" X 19 TPI 0.656" OD custom made drain plug, my Wife saw a ring she likes in a Jewelry Store.

Steve

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2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle


Last edited by warp2diesel on Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:46 pm 
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Nissan used 3/8 BSPP drain plugs at least as recently as the 80's. JIS (not JIC) hydraulic fittings also use British pipe threads. Not quite obsolete. Obscure in the US - yes. Obsolete - no.

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Matt B.

05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k


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 Post subject: I don't think so!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:31 am 
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What I just did:
(1) Held a 18 tpi guage against my drain plug. My tired old eyes can see it's not a perfect fit along the even short length of the plug :!:
(2) Tried screwing a 5/8th" by 18 tpi die onto the drain plug. NO GO :cry:

In a pinch a 5/8th" by 18 bolt might screw into the soft aluminum but it sure does not look correct to me :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:41 am 
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Location: North Port, Fl.
http://mdmetric.com/tech/tict.htm

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 Post subject: OD Does not match up with Brit pipe
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Joe: Rolled threads used on common bolts often do not match up with die cut threads with out some persuasion. I have found many bolts that will not thread into dies and the dies cut the threads deeper. To compensate for this, fastener manufactures have a sloppy fit for most grade 2,5, &8 SAE and 8.8 metric fasteners. When you get into the higher grades used on head bolts, main bearing bolts and rod bolts the quality and fit of the threads is the highest.

19 TPI equals a 1.337mm metric pitch. Straight Brit pipe thread is 0.675" OD. Way off.

18 TPI equals 1.4111mm metric pitch.

Metric pitch found on a 16mm (0.630") plug is 2.0mm, 1.15mm(equal to 22.0869 TPI), or 1.5mm in some applications , when I tried these thread pitch gauges on my drain plug they were off so far that I could feel it with out looking. 2.0mm was too coarse and even 1.25mm was too fine when I checked.

Based on the OD of my drain plug 0.625" and how far off the other options are I am sticking with 5/8" for now and will check again at my next oil change with a thread chaser or tap.
The one factor that would rule out the Withworth (Brit) type thread would be a 60 degree thread angle instead of the Withworth 55 degree angle.

Should the drain plug strip Heli-Coil or Keen-Cert inserts will work fine so that a standard insert will work. Since the plug is DEAD NUTS for the diameter, the Heli-Coil or Keen-Cert tap should thread right in and do the repair. This is my objective for this posting to have a solution for a lost or stripped drain plug for a CRD out of warranty so no one needs to buy a pan.

Steve

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2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:04 pm 
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Seems like a viable solution would be to tap the pan to 1/2"npt - use a steel hex-head 1/2"npt plug, made like a bolt where the head is larger than the plug with 1/8" head thickness, plug depth to match that of the oil pan thickness - drilled and tapped for the original drain plug, the hex npt plug would be threaded in with the head flush against the pan, loctited for seal and lock - offers permanent steel-on-steel seal, like on the stamped pans

A mule! A mule - my kingdom for a mule...............

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 Post subject: Fumoto's advice
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:39 pm 
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I just bought this 06 CRD and it already had a stripped smooth plug hole.
After much researching, and an email to Fumoto - I did what they suggested -
re-tapped the hole to 18x1.5 and put in the F-104 Fumoto valve.
It's real keen now. I couldn't be happier.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:08 pm 
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Goglio704 wrote:
The thread has been reported before as 3/8 British pipe at 19 threads per inch. That didn't really surprise me. SAE threads in an Italian built engine would surprise me...


I second this, and have been running a replacement plug on every other oil change for a year now. I tend to drop the plug into the oil when I take it out and recover it later so I wanted a second plug ready to install.

The Stock CRD oil drain plug is a #6 3/8" BSP Parallel thread plug with a copper washer.

I ordered a replacement from http://www.discounthydraulichose.com Part number 9028-06 BSPP Countersunk Sealed Plug $4.18 each
unlike the stock unit, this part has a rubber seal built in, I used it WITH the copper washer and have no leaks. I'm sure you can get one without the seal and not countersunk, but this has proved to be a good replacement

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 Post subject: Re: Drain plug size, engine oil
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:43 pm 
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my 2005 crd drain plug is a BSP (british standard pipe, 3/8 inch) Available through a good Hydraulic hose store like Parker. The oem plug is actually a hydraulic systems plug.


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