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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:49 am 
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Dent wrote:
Also agree that the tab trimming is not necessary, even with OE fuel lines. I just this this with Sasquatch's harness on an '06. You also do not need to change the float and arm. It was identical to the one on the Carter pump from Sasquatch. It even had the same part numbers.


I bought both the Carter pump and the custom 2005 liberty wiring harness that Sasquatch sells........

so i DO NOT need to swap the float arm on the Carter?

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:41 pm 
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To be sure, check with Seth, but I suspect that you will have to. Unless you sent yours to Sasquatch, I don't see how they would get one to switch.

It's not difficult or time consuming. Just make sure to unclip the sending unit ends from the upper plugs rather than cut the wires.

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:16 am 
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Bushman5 wrote:
Dent wrote:
Also agree that the tab trimming is not necessary, even with OE fuel lines. I just this this with Sasquatch's harness on an '06. You also do not need to change the float and arm. It was identical to the one on the Carter pump from Sasquatch. It even had the same part numbers.


I bought both the Carter pump and the custom 2005 liberty wiring harness that Sasquatch sells........

so i DO NOT need to swap the float arm on the Carter?

Compare the OEM unit side by side with the new unit! If the float arms are the exact same shape and length, then no swapping is needed.

If the new unit's float arm is longer which it normally is on a Carter pump assembly, you will need to remove the float arm off the unit you removed from the tank and install it on the new Carter pump unit.
The float arm simply "clips" onto the fuel tank level sending unit.
Swapping floats will ensure your fuel gauge reads correctly.

Pictures:
Image Image

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:42 pm 
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I know this is an old topic but I did the in tank lift pump about a month ago. one thing is for sure you can't pump the filter up anymore, it is rock solid hard.


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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:42 pm 
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I know this is an old topic but I did the in tank lift pump about a month ago. one thing is for sure you can't pump the filter up anymore, it is rock solid hard.


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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:29 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Bushman5 wrote:
Dent wrote:
Also agree that the tab trimming is not necessary, even with OE fuel lines. I just this this with Sasquatch's harness on an '06. You also do not need to change the float and arm. It was identical to the one on the Carter pump from Sasquatch. It even had the same part numbers.


I bought both the Carter pump and the custom 2005 liberty wiring harness that Sasquatch sells........

so i DO NOT need to swap the float arm on the Carter?

Compare the OEM unit side by side with the new unit! If the float arms are the exact same shape and length, then no swapping is needed.

If the new unit's float arm is longer which it normally is on a Carter pump assembly, you will need to remove the float arm off the unit you removed from the tank and install it on the new Carter pump unit.
The float arm simply "clips" onto the fuel tank level sending unit.
Swapping floats will ensure your fuel gauge reads correctly.

Pictures:
Image Image


thank you. Amazing info and photos. :)

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:40 pm 
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i guess where im confused is THERE IS NO OLD LIFT PUMP.....just the float assembly and pipe and inlet and outelt ports?

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:36 am 
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Correct, the 05/06 domestic CRDs never came with a lift pump from the factory.

They were not DESIGNED to run this way, DCJ determined that they COULD operate without, so they took the risk of saving a few bucks on each unit, resulting on the setup you describe, and which they all eventually have problems as a result, providing they don't die an early and violent death.

Fortunately, they separated their craniums from their nethers just long enough to at least put the lift pump fuel units in the Cummins Dodges, and that they are similar enough that they can be used to correct the situation with the Liberty CRDs.

WWDiesel posted the pic with the float arms. What you need to verify is the 90 degree bend where the wire changes from vertical down to horizontal out to the float.

The proper arm makes this bend with 1.5 ish CM away from the flat surface the unit sits on.

If the arm is touching or very nearly touching the flat surface that the unit sits on, it needs to be changed. No matter how things were for me or anyone else, make sure you check this, because if you get the Dodge arm in the Jeep tank, your gauge will still show 1/4 tank when you run completely out.

This is because the Dodge tanks are completely flat on the bottom. The Jeep tanks have a raised "berm" surrounding the unit, that will prevent the float arm from coming to full empty position.


One other Mod I made with my own in-tank lift pump (because of the $10/ft price they wanted around here for 3/8" Silicone fuel line) is that I spun the unit 180 degrees so that the plastic fittings on top were directed towards the front of the vehicle rather than the rear, which saved 2 feet of fuel line without having to do something 'Hokey', and so they wouldn't leak/dissolve if I ever start running Bio-Diesel. And it makes the installation look cleaner without that funky wild-booty back-to-side-to-front-to-middle-to-front that the factory put on. (in my opinion of course). It might or might not make sense to y'all. It just seemed weird the way it was, and even though it doesn't actually "fix" any problem, it just made more sense to me, and it works.

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:15 am 
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Bushman5 wrote:
i guess where im confused is THERE IS NO OLD LIFT PUMP.....just the float assembly and pipe and inlet and outelt ports?

Yes you are correct, but as Gordon already mentioned in his didactic post, you must be sure you install the new assembly with the correct float arm or your fuel gauge will not function correctly! :wink:
Simply compare the units side by side on a flat surface after you get the OEM assembly out of the tank and any float arm differences should be very evident! If the new unit has a longer float arm, swap it for the OEM one!!!

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:40 pm 
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:lol: Congrats! I actually had to Webster "Didactic". :-)r

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:03 am 
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ok pump and harness still sitting in their boxes....time has been an issue....that being said since the RACOR swap i have had NO air in fuel problems ever since. (im still installing the pump and harness, but waiting for some time to do so)

is it possible to NOT reuse the clipon fuel lines ? can i just run 3/8" marine diesel tubing to the fuel filter head? and 5/16" hose from the return?

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:18 am 
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That is what I did, in addition to swiveling the pump unit 180 degrees so that the fittings point towards the front rather than the back. I chose to use silicon fuel lines though, so if I ever do anything with Biodiesel, I won't need to drop the tank and change them again. Spinning the pump unit saved about $20 in fuel line.

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BLING
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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:34 am 
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Bushman5 wrote:
is it possible to NOT reuse the clipon fuel lines ? can i just run 3/8" marine diesel tubing to the fuel filter head? and 5/16" hose from the return?

Yes you can, just be sure and use good quality fuel line rated for diesel and some good hose clamps at all locations... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:10 pm 
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I installed my lift pump last weekend. I bought the pump several years ago, in April of 2008, when guys first started doing this mod. The part number on my Dodge unit, which I bought from Beaverton Chrysler in Oregon (online as I live in Wisconsin and at the time was only about $140ish if I remember correctly) is 5143160AA. I'm fairly certain this was one of the part numbers from the original gmctd thread on this subject. At least the part number was visible when the photos in that thread were still available.

I was really dreading the wiring part of this, so I kept putting it off. Then I got sick, and more time passed, during which time Sasquatch came out with the plug and play harness. This was worth every penny to me and made installation so much easier, I had no more excuses (other than enough time due to work schedule and good weather.)

I don't know how the newer Carter or Airtex pumps are with regard to float arm size. The one on my Dodge pump had the same float as the Jeep, and when the pumps were lined up side by side, the arms are the same length. When I pulled both float arms off though, the Dodge arm is clearly taller when both arms sitting side by side. I swapped arms. I'll figure out how to post a picture of them once I get it off my phone for reference.

I also did not notch the locating tab. When I assembled mine, it didn't look as though the hump would interfere with the float arm operation anyhow. With the original float arm being shorter than the Dodge, using the Jeep arm raises the float arm up higher when connected to the pump and allows more arc/sweep of the float arm, the hump in the bottom of the tank isn't really an issue.

Only issues I had was the bolt (self tapping stainless?) included with the wiring harness sheared off so I had to drill that out for the ground wire connection. And then a code for large fuel leak which went away when I erased the code. Otherwise works as advertised. I spent about 8 hours over 2 days because I had "honey do list" stuff as well, but anyone that can follow the instructions should be able to do this without any real issues. Get the plug and play harness though, don't be a glutton for punishment.

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:34 pm 
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Napheus wrote:
I installed my lift pump last weekend. I bought the pump several years ago, in April of 2008, when guys first started doing this mod. The part number on my Dodge unit, which I bought from Beaverton Chrysler in Oregon (online as I live in Wisconsin and at the time was only about $140ish if I remember correctly) is 5143160AA. I'm fairly certain this was one of the part numbers from the original gmctd thread on this subject. At least the part number was visible when the photos in that thread were still available.

I was really dreading the wiring part of this, so I kept putting it off. Then I got sick, and more time passed, during which time Sasquatch came out with the plug and play harness. This was worth every penny to me and made installation so much easier, I had no more excuses (other than enough time due to work schedule and good weather.)

I don't know how the newer Carter or Airtex pumps are with regard to float arm size. The one on my Dodge pump had the same float as the Jeep, and when the pumps were lined up side by side, the arms are the same length. When I pulled both float arms off though, the Dodge arm is clearly taller when both arms sitting side by side. I swapped arms. I'll figure out how to post a picture of them once I get it off my phone for reference.

I also did not notch the locating tab. When I assembled mine, it didn't look as though the hump would interfere with the float arm operation anyhow. With the original float arm being shorter than the Dodge, using the Jeep arm raises the float arm up higher when connected to the pump and allows more arc/sweep of the float arm, the hump in the bottom of the tank isn't really an issue.

Only issues I had was the bolt (self tapping stainless?) included with the wiring harness sheared off so I had to drill that out for the ground wire connection. And then a code for large fuel leak which went away when I erased the code. Otherwise works as advertised. I spent about 8 hours over 2 days because I had "honey do list" stuff as well, but anyone that can follow the instructions should be able to do this without any real issues. Get the plug and play harness though, don't be a glutton for punishment.

Congratulations! It's really so simple and so effective, it amazes me how so many people resist doing this mod.

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Sasquatch
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Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
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BLING
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IDParts
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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:37 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
Congratulations! It's really so simple and so effective, it amazes me how so many people resist doing this mod.

X2
It really is the TOP mode for the Jeep CRD and so worthwhile! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Thanks! I think I'll really enjoy the thermostat upgrade this winter as well.

There is one thing about the lift pump. I thought I read somewhere here that if the lift pump fails the CP3 will still draw fuel. With that thought in mind I tried to drive mine to the hardware store to get the proper fastener after shearing the one off that came with the Sasquatch kit. On my way there she died 3-4 times in less than 4 blocks, enough that I thought I might want to leave it home and take my truck instead. I would leave the key on, ground the wire until the pump shut off, then start it and drive until it died again. I ended up wedging the ground wire terminal under the clip nut fastener for the rear seat. (I left everything apart so I could install the new stainless nut/bolt.) Once I did that the pump worked perfectly until I could bolt the ground wire down properly in the parking lot. I would caution, at least from my experience, the CP3 may not pull fuel, or at least enough to run if the lift pump fails. Of course, that may only be my experience, others may have been successful. For anyone wondering I have a new (less than 500 miles) Wix equivalent for the factory fuel filter on the redesigned factory fuel head and haven't installed the 2 micron secondary filter yet. That and the Provent will be installed next month when I am on vacation.

For anyone coming to the in tank lift pump party late. Unless you enjoy adding wires or are seriously cash strapped I can't stress enough getting a Sasquatch harness to save time. Also take off the float arms and compare all dimensions to be certain they are identical, it takes literally 30 seconds combined to pop both out and back in. If anything is different (float, arm length or arm height) then swap the old Jeep arm in place of the arm on your new pump. Just be careful with the arm out. The old Jeep rheostat fell apart once the arm was removed. And don't worry about trimming the tab, unless that sort of thing would bother you knowing it wasn't straight/centered like the old one was. It is only off I'm guessing maybe 10-15 degrees, I didn't actually measure it, but it shouldn't interfere with the operation of the arm at all if the old Jeep arm is swapped based on my observation on where my arm ended up sitting within the tank. Of course your mileage may vary.

Oh, one other note. Not sure about everyone else. When I was running my tank level down, I drive approx. 52 miles to work round trip, of which about 40 miles is interstate. My low fuel light came on when I was about 5-7 miles on my way into work. So driving the rest of the way to work and back home with the light on we will say was 45 miles. There was still at least a gallon, and probably closer to 1.5 gallons of fuel left in the tank.

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Napheus wrote:
Thanks! I think I'll really enjoy the thermostat upgrade this winter as well.
There is one thing about the lift pump. I thought I read somewhere here that if the lift pump fails the CP3 will still draw fuel. With that thought in mind I tried to drive mine to the hardware store to get the proper fastener after shearing the one off that came with the Sasquatch kit. On my way there she died 3-4 times in less than 4 blocks, enough that I thought I might want to leave it home and take my truck instead. I would leave the key on, ground the wire until the pump shut off, then start it and drive until it died again. I ended up wedging the ground wire terminal under the clip nut fastener for the rear seat. (I left everything apart so I could install the new stainless nut/bolt.) Once I did that the pump worked perfectly until I could bolt the ground wire down properly in the parking lot. I would caution, at least from my experience, the CP3 may not pull fuel, or at least enough to run if the lift pump fails. Of course, that may only be my experience, others may have been successful. For anyone wondering I have a new (less than 500 miles) Wix equivalent for the factory fuel filter on the redesigned factory fuel head and haven't installed the 2 micron secondary filter yet. That and the Provent will be installed next month when I am on vacation.

It will, but how well it does this depends on how well the line fittings and filter housing can seal a vacuum (seal air out).
Most people when they finally do this mod. do so under duress of fuel aeration problems they haven't been able to solve any other way.
That, combined with re-using the problematic dual-ended push lock hose assembly at the tank, and possible aeration problems with the filter head = great deal of variation in how well it works.
Your experience tells me that you were definitely drawing air before, and the little added bit of resistance pulling through the pump makes it pull even more air than before. Just make sure it's a quality installation, and carry an extra fuse and relay, so you won't have to drive without it.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
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IDParts
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YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
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GM 15976889
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2010 Ram Hemi Trans
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Transgo kit
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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:09 am 
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How do you know if you NEED this mod? Ive never had fueling issue with EITHER of my CRD's.

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 Post subject: Re: In-tank Lift Pump Installation Details
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:56 am 
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CRD Joe wrote:
How do you know if you NEED this mod? Ive never had fueling issue with EITHER of my CRD's.

If you've never had a fuel aeration issue, then you don't NEED it.
But then, when your fuel system's always soaking wet, (although not as bad as Seattle) it can't pull air for the water in the way, anyhow.

Whether or not it would benefit your rigs, that's another question that others can only answer in theory.

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PATC Custom Billet
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Sonnax 44957
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