DIY ECU Flash

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:33 am

casm wrote:

Looks like my glow plug question was answered by WWDiesel's post immediately above while I was typing this up, so this is a late edit of my original post. Just one question hanging out there for right now:

I read the descriptions of what Yeti's tunes do, but didn't see descriptions for Nick's tunes. What I'm mainly looking for are descriptions of the changes as well as the aggressiveness of each tune compared to the others - 'Stage 1' or 'Mild Tune' doesn't tell me a lot about what it actually does, though I did note the torque figures quoted in some of the filenames. Are there any descriptions available that give a fuller picture of what the changes are?

The "Nm" (Newton Metre) rating is listed in the descriptions of some of the tunes and is very important due to the limits of the torque converter!
If additional information is needed; contact (pm) the programer!

Torque Converter Ratings:
Stock Mopar OEM TC is rated for 300 ft. lbs. max (406 Nm)
Mopar Euro TC is rated for 400 ft. lbs. max (~ 542 Nm)
Hemi TC is rated for? (supposedly better than Euro, have not found a rating for it)
Suncoast CRD-1ES TC is rated for 600 ft. lbs. max (813 Nm)

Anything over a Stage II will most likely require a torque converter upgrade due to TC chatter or shudder in lock up!
Pulling a trailer and / or with loads will also greatly affect the need for a better TC when using one of the higher rated tunes! :roll:

A stage IV tune will definitely require a SunCoast or similar high performance TC to handle the additional torque output of the engine and prevent TC shudder!

:SOMBRERO:

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:50 pm

casm wrote:

Looks like my glow plug question was answered by WWDiesel's post immediately above while I was typing this up, so this is a late edit of my original post. Just one question hanging out there for right now:

Squeeto wrote:

I read the descriptions of what Yeti's tunes do, but didn't see descriptions for Nick's tunes. What I'm mainly looking for are descriptions of the changes as well as the aggressiveness of each tune compared to the others - 'Stage 1' or 'Mild Tune' doesn't tell me a lot about what it actually does, though I did note the torque figures quoted in some of the filenames. Are there any descriptions available that give a fuller picture of what the changes are?

Also, does anyone have a preferred seller on Amazon / eBay / Aliexpress, etc. for the MPPS cable & software? I don't particularly care if it takes a few days to get here from China, but do want to get exactly what I need in one shot.

I can look when I get home to my tuning laptop, but I would guess that nick's stage 1 tune might increase from the stock 415n-m up to 450 n-m. My reasoning is that the stock tune already has the maps and stuff set up for 450 but they use a few limiters to drop it back down to 415. In other words, its easy to turn the stock tune up to 450n-m without changing much.

To go above 450 you start needing to edit a lot of items and it becomes very tedious with ECMTitanium.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:09 pm

For the most part, all the DIY tunes increase the amount of fuel that gets injected by one way or another.
(higher rail pressure, increased duration, or both)
More fuel = more power.
There is also some adjustments to the turbo boost to keep it in line with the increased fuel.

In a nutshell...

Nicks 811 stage 1 gives you a little more power.
Yeti 811 stage 2 give a bit more power than Nicks.
Yeti 811 stage 4 (what happened to stage 3?) gives you even more power.

As far as the Nm (torque) rating goes, thats just someone's best guess.
AFAIK, no one has actually tested any of these on a dyno.

So try each one to see which one you like. Your butt will give you a good indication of which has more power.
So will you torque converter when it shudders :wink:

I've ran all three of the 811 tunes and I like the Yeti stage 2 best.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:55 pm

flash7210 wrote:

Yeti 811 stage 4 (what happened to stage 3?) gives you even more power.

I have a copy of the the 811 Stage III on file when I was first testing out the tunes and Yeti was slowly and carefully increasing hp & torque for me to test.
But I am not sure it has the EGR/FCV delete?
I can send it to you if you like and want a copy so you can look at it to see if it has the EGR/FCV delete or not.
If it does not and you can 0 out the EGR/FCV DTC's for the Stage III, maybe you can get Squeeto to add it to the others listed on page 1?

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

mass-hole wrote:

I can look when I get home to my tuning laptop, but I would guess that nick's stage 1 tune might increase from the stock 415n-m up to 450 n-m. My reasoning is that the stock tune already has the maps and stuff set up for 450 but they use a few limiters to drop it back down to 415. In other words, its easy to turn the stock tune up to 450n-m without changing much.

If you wouldn't mind checking, I'd definitely appreciate it. This is one of those things I really prefer to not go into blind to what it's actually changing.

Quote:

To go above 450 you start needing to edit a lot of items and it becomes very tedious with ECMTitanium.

This is definitely an area where I'm just not that dedicated to it. Frankly, if it weren't for the option of opening up a bit of extra power, I'd be happy to just stick with the stock tune and the EGR / FCV delete - but since the option is there...

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

flash7210 wrote:

For the most part, all the DIY tunes increase the amount of fuel that gets injected by one way or another.
(higher rail pressure, increased duration, or both)
More fuel = more power.
There is also some adjustments to the turbo boost to keep it in line with the increased fuel.

Thanks for that - these are pretty much the lines I was thinking it would operate along.

Quote:

As far as the Nm (torque) rating goes, thats just someone's best guess.
AFAIK, no one has actually tested any of these on a dyno.

And I'm fine with that; mainly, I just wanted to have a yardstick for what might be going on with each tune. The raw numbers are less important to me since my goal isn't to do nine-second quarter-miles or anything like that, but it does give at least some indication of where things sit in relation to the stock numbers as well as each individual tune. Ballpark estimates are good enough in this case.

FWIW, any sort of torque converter replacement is much lower priority (for now) than getting the fuel / EGR weak spots out of the system. I definitely see the advantages, but that's not where I want to put the money for the time being. That means power is also a lesser consideration, but not one that's totally off the table.

Quote:

So try each one to see which one you like. Your butt will give you a good indication of which has more power.
So will you torque converter when it shudders :wink:

I've ran all three of the 811 tunes and I like the Yeti stage 2 best.

Good to know. I was actually sort of leaning towards that one, but will give each one a shot and see where the happy spot is.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:25 pm

casm wrote:

flash7210 wrote:

For the most part, all the DIY tunes increase the amount of fuel that gets injected by one way or another.
(higher rail pressure, increased duration, or both)
More fuel = more power.
There is also some adjustments to the turbo boost to keep it in line with the increased fuel.

Thanks for that - these are pretty much the lines I was thinking it would operate along.

Quote:

As far as the Nm (torque) rating goes, thats just someone's best guess.
AFAIK, no one has actually tested any of these on a dyno.

And I'm fine with that; mainly, I just wanted to have a yardstick for what might be going on with each tune. The raw numbers are less important to me since my goal isn't to do nine-second quarter-miles or anything like that, but it does give at least some indication of where things sit in relation to the stock numbers as well as each individual tune. Ballpark estimates are good enough in this case.

FWIW, any sort of torque converter replacement is much lower priority (for now) than getting the fuel / EGR weak spots out of the system. I definitely see the advantages, but that's not where I want to put the money for the time being. That means power is also a lesser consideration, but not one that's totally off the table.

Quote:

So try each one to see which one you like. Your butt will give you a good indication of which has more power.
So will you torque converter when it shudders :wink:

I've ran all three of the 811 tunes and I like the Yeti stage 2 best.

Good to know. I was actually sort of leaning towards that one, but will give each one a shot and see where the happy spot is.

Its possible to have a tune that doesnt apply the extra torque when under TC lockup much like the stock tune does, but honestly this is a waste of time because these jeeps are basically in lock up constantly once you are above 50mph. This is how GDE's regular Eco tune is. They also have the eco full torque and hot tunes that have no limitations.

And you can always give it a shot and see how it goes. I am running 540 n-m/400 ft-lbs on my stock converter(at least i've never changed it and bought my jeep with 40k miles), with a LOT more torque below 2000 rpms than stock, and do get some shutter, but on my GDE Hot tune i didnt have any issues, even towing.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

mass-hole wrote:

Its possible to have a tune that doesnt apply the extra torque when under TC lockup much like the stock tune does, but honestly this is a waste of time because these jeeps are basically in lock up constantly once you are above 50mph. This is how GDE's regular Eco tune is. They also have the eco full torque and hot tunes that have no limitations.

That's one of the reasons I was looking into the GDE tune as the long-term solution - being on the stock TC for the foreseeable future (and not really having a feel for its condition yet since we've only had the Jeep for about 10 days at this point), the idea of being able to ultimately open up full torque and reprogram the TCM is appealing. But that's a post-TC-replacement item, assuming things ever get to that point.

Quote:

And you can always give it a shot and see how it goes. I am running 540 n-m/400 ft-lbs on my stock converter(at least i've never changed it and bought my jeep with 40k miles), with a LOT more torque below 2000 rpms than stock, and do get some shutter, but on my GDE Hot tune i didnt have any issues, even towing.

For right now, that's probably the approach I'll take - work up through the publically-available tunes and back off if things start sounding less-than-reassuring, then start looking at the GDE ECM/TCM tunes later on when I have a better grasp of how things behave. We will eventually be pressing this vehicle into service for occasionally towing other vehicles (though not until after the Winter), so having torque aplenty (and a decent-sized auxiliary transmission cooler) is definitely desirable.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:05 pm

casm wrote:

mass-hole wrote:

I can look when I get home to my tuning laptop, but I would guess that nick's stage 1 tune might increase from the stock 415n-m up to 450 n-m. My reasoning is that the stock tune already has the maps and stuff set up for 450 but they use a few limiters to drop it back down to 415. In other words, its easy to turn the stock tune up to 450n-m without changing much.

If you wouldn't mind checking, I'd definitely appreciate it. This is one of those things I really prefer to not go into blind to what it's actually changing.

Quote:

To go above 450 you start needing to edit a lot of items and it becomes very tedious with ECMTitanium.

This is definitely an area where I'm just not that dedicated to it. Frankly, if it weren't for the option of opening up a bit of extra power, I'd be happy to just stick with the stock tune and the EGR / FCV delete - but since the option is there...

It looks like Nick Stg 1 tune would be good for about 450-460 N-m but he does it in a somewhat odd way(he increases the injection duration instead of just telling it he wanted more torque) so its hard to tell exactly what it would be. He does not remove the gear limiters so it will still have less torque in lockup and probably wont shudder.

He does not alter the drivers wish map(what tells the ECU how much torque to make vs throttle position and RPM) so it will drive just like a normal jeep for most throttle and RPM ranges.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:16 pm

Quote:

so it will still have less torque in lockup and probably wont shudder

It definitely shudders.
Nicks was the first tune I tried.

But the two Yeti tunes definitely have more power than the Nick.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:18 pm

flash7210 wrote:

Quote:

so it will still have less torque in lockup and probably wont shudder

It definitely shudders.
Nicks was the first tune I tried.

But the two Yeti tunes definitely have more power than the Nick.

Which is probably because he increases the injection duration to fake the ECU into making more power instead of actually increasing the torque request. So the limiters are the same but it is now is making 13% more power for the same torque value.

This is why its an odd way to do it.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Looking back on the tunes, it appears as though my upgrade path (in terms of whose map gets flashed) is going to be a mix & match affair dependent on which ECU this KJ turns out to have.

808 Upgrade Path:

Nick's 808 EGR/FCV delete + (some) HP or Yeti's 808 EGR/FCV delete - stock
Yeti's 808 EGR/FCV delete + Mild tune (may be roughly equivalent to Nick's tune listed above)
Yeti's 808 EGR/FCV/DTC code delete + Mild tune (vers 1.02) (may be roughly equivalent to Nick's tune listed above)
Yeti's 808 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 2 Hot tune (vers 1.01)

811 Upgrade Path:

Nick's 811 EGR/FCV delete - stock
Nick's 811 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 1 tune
Yeti's 811 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 2 Hot tune (vers 1.02)
Yeti's 811 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 4 Hot tune (vers 1.00)

812, 809, 513, 806, and 526 Upgrade Paths:

Each of these only have the option of an EGR/FCV delete at stock power outputs

None of this is really an issue for me; it's just interesting to note how the tunes progress powerwise for each firmware version.

Here's hoping I have either an 808 or 811 firmware version - the cable should get here Friday if tracking info is to be believed, so hopefully I'll figure it out this weekend.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:11 pm

casm wrote:

Looking back on the tunes, it appears as though my upgrade path (in terms of whose map gets flashed) is going to be a mix & match affair dependent on which ECU this KJ turns out to have.

808 Upgrade Path:

Nick's 808 EGR/FCV delete + (some) HP or Yeti's 808 EGR/FCV delete - stock
Yeti's 808 EGR/FCV delete + Mild tune (may be roughly equivalent to Nick's tune listed above)
Yeti's 808 EGR/FCV/DTC code delete + Mild tune (vers 1.02) (may be roughly equivalent to Nick's tune listed above)
Yeti's 808 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 2 Hot tune (vers 1.01)

811 Upgrade Path:

Nick's 811 EGR/FCV delete - stock
Nick's 811 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 1 tune
Yeti's 811 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 2 Hot tune (vers 1.02)
Yeti's 811 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 4 Hot tune (vers 1.00)

812, 809, 513, 806, and 526 Upgrade Paths:

Each of these only have the option of an EGR/FCV delete at stock power outputs

None of this is really an issue for me; it's just interesting to note how the tunes progress powerwise for each firmware version.

Here's hoping I have either an 808 or 811 firmware version - the cable should get here Friday if tracking info is to be believed, so hopefully I'll figure it out this weekend.

Well you wont be an 808 for sure as that is the 2006 US firmware. 811 is the typical 2005 firmware but i have seen others.

After looking at Nick's Stage 1, I would skip it all together. I think Yeti's is a more well rounded tune and has the same power output.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

mass-hole wrote:

Well you wont be an 808 for sure as that is the 2006 US firmware. 811 is the typical 2005 firmware but i have seen others.

Good to know, and thanks. Cable and software arrived earlier; as soon as I can get this XP VM set up, I'll go have a look at what's actually in my ECU.

Quote:

After looking at Nick's Stage 1, I would skip it all together. I think Yeti's is a more well rounded tune and has the same power output.

That's the thing... If I have the 811 firmware (which at least sounds likely), Nick's tune is the only Stage 1 option, unless I'm misunderstanding something. My concern with doing a Stage 2 or higher tune at this point comes down to the stock TC being in use, and I'm keen to avoid anything that might kill it.

I could be being overly-paranoid about this, but past experience with ECU changes has taught me to be cautious.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:33 pm

Before you do ANYTHING else, save copies of your original existing tune in multiple places, and preferably multiple media, like a thumb drive or such. That way if you do write something that doesn't work, you can always write it back in.

{EDITS} re-removing multiple redundancies.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Before you do ANYTHING else, save copies of your original existing tune in multiple places, and preferably multiple media, like a thumb drive or such. That way if you do write something that doesn't work, you can always write it back in.

We're on the same page - between the copy in the VM, copy on the host, copy on the fileserver, and copy in two different cloud storage providers, the chances of losing this are pretty slim.

As anticipated, the ECU is using the 811 firmware. Flashed Nick's 811 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 1 tune to start with and disconnected the MAF sensor; the improvement was definitely noticeable on the butt dyno. No MIL with the MAF unplugged, which is nice. Will give it a shot tomorrow when I have to do a 25-mile commute in mixed driving and see where it sits; if it's successful, I'll bump up to Yeti's 811 EGR/FCV delete + Stage 2 Hot tune (vers 1.02) and see how it does with that one.

For now, I've left the FCV connected. I'm assuming that this won't make any difference given that the FCV is disabled - is that a reasonable assumption, or should I go unplug it right this second before the Jeep goes supernova in the driveway?

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:45 pm

Leave it plugged in. FCV disabled doesn't mean DTC disabled. Same with the EGR solenoid.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:39 pm

casm wrote:

For now, I've left the FCV connected. I'm assuming that this won't make any difference given that the FCV is disabled - is that a reasonable assumption, or should I go unplug it right this second before the Jeep goes supernova in the driveway?

The tune does not disable either the FCV or the EGR valve function, it only disables the DTC's for them if unplugged and / or removed!
"EGR/FCV delete" means the DTC's (trouble codes) for those two items code have been 0 ed out in the software so that when you remove (unplug) the FCV and the EGR valve it will not set a DTC (check engine light) for either item!
This was done for those that totally remove the complete EGR system including the FCV and install a Week's Elbow kit which I strongly recommend doing in all cases!

So, if you have reflashed your OBC with one of the EGR/FCV delete tunes, you can unplug your FCV and EGR valve thereby totally disabling them and not get a DTC by doing so.
But you still need to install a EGR blockoff plate to totally insure no leakby of the EGR valve allowing soot or boost to leak in either direction. Also if you plan to stay like this for a period of time, you need to totally remove the butterfly plate out of the FCV.

See this thread for making an EGR block off plate:> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76576

See this thread on how to remove the butterfly flapper plate out of the FCV:> viewtopic.php?p=914265#p914265

:SOMBRERO:

Yeti · **Posted:** Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:12 am

egr block off plate is needed if the egr do not close properly and you feel it when you request boost , if you feel a turbo lag ......the egr is not well closed and you loose boost .
when I disable the FCV , they not work during normal operation , they stay open all the time , only work during the shut off for soft stop , idem for the egr , when disabled they not work , only work like an over pressure valve , if you need to unplug the electrical connector , you must disable the DTC .

and if you need a custom tune , contact me on private message or on my FB page

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100011557657029

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:52 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Before you do ANYTHING else, save copies of your original existing tune in multiple places, and preferably multiple media, like a thumb drive or such. That way if you do write something that doesn't work, you can always write it back in.

{EDITS} re-removing multiple redundancies.

I use google drive and the drive sync application on my laptop. As soon as I save a tune or do anything it automatically uploads to drive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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