Different piston ring sizes for 05-06 crd?

nothingbutchrysler · **Joined:** Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:36 pm **Posts:** 8

Currently rebuilding a 2.8 diesel and I need to replace #1 cylinder and sleeve and rings. Now trying to save a few bucks from going to the dealership I found a site that has great prices for piston and rings. Though the site is calling out two different top ring end gaps. .095" being newer style and .125" as the older. From little research and asking the dealership about it no one knows the answer or has heard of two different sizes. Currently my end gap is .018". Little light on this would be much appreciated thanks. Feel free to ask anything I might of left out of the description

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:35 pm

You may want to contact these guys for assistance:
http://www.idparts.com/complete-engine-piston-ring-set-liberty-crd-p-3736.html

lacabrera · **Posted:** Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:37 am

You need to give the supplier the engine number? There are 2 different types of piston/rings used on this motor. Not sure if its dependent on year.

nothingbutchrysler · **Joined:** Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:36 pm **Posts:** 8

Id parts is the site I'm looking at have been in contact they haven't really been help to much. Maybe I have to be a little more informative with them I'll shoot them an email with some engine info and see if they can help. Thanks for the replies guys.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:23 pm

Please let us know what you come up with. I assume that you are replacing the piston as well? The reason I ask is because I was told by a business in the UK that deals with these engines that you can't get the old weight pistons any longer, but maybe that's just that they can't get them from VM, their supplier. I'd be curious if you can source the correct "old style" piston, and I'd be surprised if there is a difference in the rings, but please let us know.
The same goes if you are replacing a rod, as they come in balanced sets. If you change ONE, and have good luck, we'd all really appreciate knowing how it going, after it's lasted a good number of miles anyhow.

Good luck with these seldom charted waters!

nothingbutchrysler · **Joined:** Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:36 pm **Posts:** 8

So far I have had no luck with any knowledge of what style pistons or rings are in my engine. Dealership only has the part number for the revised newer piston I have not looked at anything over seas yet. Original plan was to replace sleeve and piston and rings in #1 since that was the damaged one. Other three look fine besides some oil and carbon build up. Right now it's looking like I'll be replacing all 4 pistons without rods. And from what I know and what id parts told me you measure ring gap with ring in cylinder and .095" to me seems like one hell of a gap. But I'll keep you guys up to date in what I find. Been sitting on this jeep for a few months while the head got rebuilt and I just got it back so I'm trying to get it all rolling now

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:26 pm

yeah, the series or weight (can't remember ATM) are stamped on the piston. Probably best to get a good Ebay piston for not much, and use that with new rings. Replacing all three with the rings is a lot of $$, and I doubt you'll gain any compression over what's already in place. I would ask Keith at GDE, but I'm fairly certain that the only NEW pistons you'll find in Europe will also be the new ones.
I'd run the Ebay piston with new sleeve and you're only out a few hundred, VS over a grand :2cents:

I might be able to source you an old piston if you have trouble finding one. Just need the numbers off of yours. I think the guy wanted $100 or so. I should buy a couple just to have them around.

lacabrera · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:49 am

nothingbutchrysler wrote:

So far I have had no luck with any knowledge of what style pistons or rings are in my engine. Dealership only has the part number for the revised newer piston I have not looked at anything over seas yet. Original plan was to replace sleeve and piston and rings in #1 since that was the damaged one. Other three look fine besides some oil and carbon build up. Right now it's looking like I'll be replacing all 4 pistons without rods. And from what I know and what id parts told me you measure ring gap with ring in cylinder and .095" to me seems like one hell of a gap. But I'll keep you guys up to date in what I find. Been sitting on this jeep for a few months while the head got rebuilt and I just got it back so I'm trying to get it all rolling now

I don't think you could rely on the measuring the ring gap on an old piston ring to obtain the correct part? I am not 100% sure but I think there is a difference in thickness between the 2 sets of rings. When I replaced a set on my 2005 I gave http://www.vmdieselspecialist.com/ here in the UK a call. If you try them make sure you have the full engine number. Chassis number is of no use. I think other forum members have used this company.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:18 am

lacabrera wrote:

nothingbutchrysler wrote:

So far I have had no luck with any knowledge of what style pistons or rings are in my engine. Dealership only has the part number for the revised newer piston I have not looked at anything over seas yet. Original plan was to replace sleeve and piston and rings in #1 since that was the damaged one. Other three look fine besides some oil and carbon build up. Right now it's looking like I'll be replacing all 4 pistons without rods. And from what I know and what id parts told me you measure ring gap with ring in cylinder and .095" to me seems like one hell of a gap. But I'll keep you guys up to date in what I find. Been sitting on this jeep for a few months while the head got rebuilt and I just got it back so I'm trying to get it all rolling now

I don't think you could rely on the measuring the ring gap on an old piston ring to obtain the correct part? I am not 100% sure but I think there is a difference in thickness between the 2 sets of rings. When I replaced a set on my 2005 I gave http://www.vmdieselspecialist.com/ here in the UK a call. If you try them make sure you have the full engine number. Chassis number is of no use. I think other forum members have used this company.

Yeah, when I asked them about pistons, they asked for the numbers stamped on the pistons. When I asked about a turbo gasket, and some other unique to US parts, they wanted the engine numbers on the front of the timing cover. I had to look at 3 engines to find a legible one as it's basically a paper sticker that doesn't last. I don't remember them saying that the rings were different, but I'm pretty sure they know the answer

lacabrera · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:01 pm

x2 had a job reading the number that is a barcode sticker that was half missing. The company told me that it was the only way to know for sure that they are sending the correct piston rings. All other components including bearing shells, front and rear oil seals no problem.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:40 pm

lacabrera wrote:

x2 had a job reading the number that is a barcode sticker that was half missing. The company told me that it was the only way to know for sure that they are sending the correct piston rings. All other components including bearing shells, front and rear oil seals no problem.

Dangit, sounds like the rings are different then. Or, maybe "the company" that you mentioned sells rings for VM 2.5's & 2.8's? You would think that ID parts would know if the rings are the same for old and new style 2.8 pistons?

nothingbutchrysler · **Joined:** Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:36 pm **Posts:** 8

Thanks for all the info guys. Looks like I'll be getting a hold of the diesel company in the UK to see what they say I'll look on eBay to. I'll post pictures too to show the catastrophe the valve did. Just trying to figure out if its worth the extra money to redo all four. The liberty only has 84k on it and 2-4 cylinder sleeves are in good shape can still see the cross hatches. Tho like I was saying all pistons are pretty carboned up. Any ideas on cleaning? Soak in gas? I'll post up this weekend what I find. Need to get the build going. Another question I had is for the crank. Its my first one piece block and I know the crank comes out back. But before I pull it to clean the block any tips or pointers? Thanks.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:43 pm

Lacabera said you can likely pull one piston and sleeve without pulling the crank. I've got one that I need to replace the sleeve on, and that's what I'm going to try also. I would just brush the bulk of the carbon off with a fingernail brush or something like, and shop vac it out.

Please let us know if you have luck without pulling the crank. There shouldn't be any significant wear at 84k, but you can feel for a lip just in case it was abused.

nothingbutchrysler · **Joined:** Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:36 pm **Posts:** 8

So it's been awhile and I'm now down to my last minute. Vmspecialists over in the UK responded and were still no help and during the emailing gave my phone a virus which basically melted it. Called jeep to see if I could order just rings and install those to measure to see what current rings I have and that was a no go since you have to buy ring/piston combo. So now I ordered rings from idparts when those get here I will compare ring gaps and go from there. Crap shoot from here on out. Just hope rest of it will go somewhat smoothly. Thanks for the help guys!

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:18 am

No problem. I think since we haven't heard anyone mention different rings that the new ones from ID parts will be correct. Oh, let me ask Mike (can't remember the last part of his Lost name/handle), as I think he replaced the rings, but then again, I think he put new pistons with new rings, and you're wondering about new rings with old pistons right?

hmm, I bet if ID parts has sold a number of those ring sets, and they haven't had people sending them back because they are wrong (Corey would remember that), then you should be good.

Thanks for reporting back. I need to order a couple of sets myself, so I'll be really interested if they work.

I would just throw a new piston in with rings, but they changed the darn weight (not buying 4 new pistons). So, when I replace a sleeve with a damaged rim, I'm thinking of throwing the old piston with new rings, in a new sleeve. Please smack me around if this sounds like a bad idea. The piston only has 88k miles, and there's no discernible wear in the sleeve (other than dealership sander the rim :furious:

).

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:25 am

lacabrera wrote:

You need to give the supplier the engine number? There are 2 different types of piston/rings used on this motor. Not sure if its dependent on year.

Lacabrera, Have you ever heard of, or seen both styles of the rings you mentioned for sale? VM Specialists said they don't make the old pistons, so I'm really worried that the old rings might be obsolete :cry:

I they are, I might try to shave or add the necessary weight to the new pistons to make them match the old ones, if it's reasonable easy anyhow. Hopefully the new ones are just a tad heavier, should be easy to Dremel off a bit to match them. Well, if they changed the top of the piston and affected compression then it's probably a no go....

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:34 am

nothingbutchrysler wrote:

Currently rebuilding a 2.8 diesel and I need to replace #1 cylinder and sleeve and rings. Now trying to save a few bucks from going to the dealership I found a site that has great prices for piston and rings. Though the site is calling out two different top ring end gaps. .095" being newer style and .125" as the older. From little research and asking the dealership about it no one knows the answer or has heard of two different sizes. Currently my end gap is .018". Little light on this would be much appreciated thanks. Feel free to ask anything I might of left out of the description

Wait a second, so you have in your possession a new piston and rings from another supplier, and the gap isn't correlating with either spec? ID Parts sell them as a set, so if you bought them elsewhere, can't you just ask ID Parts if their part numbers are the same as yours?
I'm guessing you have a new style piston with old rings (you must think this also because you ordered a set of rings from ID parts). What's cool about this is that you may have found us a supply of OLD rings. But, then again, maybe I'm all screwed up on the story :lol:

??
If they do turn out to be the wrong (hopefully old) rings, please post where you got them :JEEPIN:

lacabrera · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:27 pm

Mountainman wrote:

lacabrera wrote:

You need to give the supplier the engine number? There are 2 different types of piston/rings used on this motor. Not sure if its dependent on year.

Lacabrera, Have you ever heard of, or seen both styles of the rings you mentioned for sale? VM Specialists said they don't make the old pistons, so I'm really worried that the old rings might be obsolete :cry:

I they are, I might try to shave or add the necessary weight to the new pistons to make them match the old ones, if it's reasonable easy anyhow. Hopefully the new ones are just a tad heavier, should be easy to Dremel off a bit to match them. Well, if they changed the top of the piston and affected compression then it's probably a no go....

Sorry the only info I have about the piston rings is what I was told by the guy at VM Specialist saying they are more than 1 type. My only guess maybe the new style were fitted to 2005 on CRD'S when other changes were made EGR turbo etc. Before ordering mine I did a search for them and for the 2.8 VM engine I found several different sizes. Hence why I used VM Specialists. Unfortunately i no longer have the old ones to pass on there size.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:29 pm

ah ok, Thanks anyhow :JEEPIN:

nothingbutchrysler · **Joined:** Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:36 pm **Posts:** 8

im confused on the story now ha. for anyone who might be a bit confused on what im trying to figure out is right now i have a crd 2005, its unknown to me of which style piston and rings i have right now. gave vm specialist my engine number and serial and code they didnt really answer my question and said they have great used pistons. though i am looking for a piston right now but it didnt answer my question. my question was can i still get an older style piston with its mating rings to replace my bad piston and also re ring the other 3 pistons i have. or do i have to buy all new pistons and rings to do a full rebuild? and its looking like i got to buy 4 new pistons and rings. ID parts only has rings and pistons for the updated version that chrysler has put out but i dont know the serial brake. their only two specs are .095" of top ring gap is newer style and .125" is older but what is that the spec of is that max spec of max end gap? no one can give me a straight answer and no one can seem to help me out with what exact rings and pistons i have in my engine. and since i cant buy just one set of rings from chrsyler since its now a combo pack with piston i bought a set of what i presume is newer style rings from ID parts so i can compare my set with their set to see hopefully what size rings i have currently in my jeep. i dont want to mix different rings with different pistons only because i know that can possibly cause blow buy and low compression. my current end gap of the top ring is .018" and according to VM specialists this is an ok spec. but again ok spec to which ring size? i should be getting my set of rings tomorrow so ill be doing measurments and hopefully i have the newer updated version so everything will work out. ill keep you guys posted and maybe will help with atleast a serial brake of engine so we can know whats what.

Different piston ring sizes for 05-06 crd?

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