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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:01 pm 
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mass-hole wrote:
0F5D12 on the 808 tune is right in the middle of the first VNT Control map. was this a typo? Where is the viscous heater map?

E8C82 is the suspicious map on 806 file, think Yeti found the same on 808.. probably typo on his post.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:10 pm 
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Yeti, I believe the map values on the VNT vane control maps are actually divided by 8192 to get the percentage. So for example on the first map(808 file), 0 IQ and 200 RPM the value in the map is 6963. Divide that by 8192 and you get exactly 85%. I checked this on the duty cycle of the PWM and the vacuum control valve and it is correct, you get an 85% duty cycle with the key on and the engine off.

This means the max value that should be entered into those maps is 8192, anything above that and I am not sure what happens.

This is also true for the X-axis of the drivers wish maps and basically anywhere else you see an 8192. The axis is 0-8192 and represents 0-100%. Divide the values in the x axis by 81.92 and it will work out to exactly 5% increments.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:11 am 
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mass-hole wrote:
So i Just played around a bit and it seems the 1x5 map located at 0F4DD6 controls idle but only in neutral and park. Once you shift to Drive or reverse it seems to drop back to 760(actually slightly less.) I changed all 5 values from 760 to 1000 and got a 1000 rpm idle regardless of coolant or IAT temp(started from around 27C). I've now loaded a second tune where the first 4 values are 1000 and the final is 760. With the engine at full operating temperature it idles at 760 again. Unfortunately, since the engine is now ~95C, I am going to have to wait a while to test the idle at lower temperatures. Based on the axis values, the idle change should occur at either 40 or 60C.

EDIT: went for a 2 hr mountain bike ride and when I came back the coolant and iat were both 50C. I started the Jeep and it started idling ~ 890rpm and slow dropped linearly to 760 as it approached 60c. So it seems if we want a high idle based on coolant temp, 0F4DD6 is the way to go.

yes but you must try to modify in different mode , every point of temp correspond to every point in the map try to scale the rpm in base of the temp

great job

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:14 am 
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apardo001 wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
0F5D12 on the 808 tune is right in the middle of the first VNT Control map. was this a typo? Where is the viscous heater map?

E8C82 is the suspicious map on 806 file, think Yeti found the same on 808.. probably typo on his post.



this map in Europe tune have different Break point , and I need to be sure at what temp your VH shut off , in mine at 70c ...in your's ?

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:21 am 
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mass-hole wrote:
Yeti, I believe the map values on the VNT vane control maps are actually divided by 8192 to get the percentage. So for example on the first map(808 file), 0 IQ and 200 RPM the value in the map is 6963. Divide that by 8192 and you get exactly 85%. I checked this on the duty cycle of the PWM and the vacuum control valve and it is correct, you get an 85% duty cycle with the key on and the engine off.

This means the max value that should be entered into those maps is 8192, anything above that and I am not sure what happens.

This is also true for the X-axis of the drivers wish maps and basically anywhere else you see an 8192. The axis is 0-8192 and represents 0-100%. Divide the values in the x axis by 81.92 and it will work out to exactly 5% increments.



fantastic now I can understand why I see 85% with my scan tool ,

mass ........we can do a damos now , what you think ? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:36 am 
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Yeti wrote:
apardo001 wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
0F5D12 on the 808 tune is right in the middle of the first VNT Control map. was this a typo? Where is the viscous heater map?

E8C82 is the suspicious map on 806 file, think Yeti found the same on 808.. probably typo on his post.



this map in Europe tune have different Break point , and I need to be sure at what temp your VH shut off , in mine at 70c ...in your's ?


I'll test this weekend and let you know :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:20 am 
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:BANANA: :BANANA: :BANANA:

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:30 pm 
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Yeti wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
Yeti, I believe the map values on the VNT vane control maps are actually divided by 8192 to get the percentage. So for example on the first map(808 file), 0 IQ and 200 RPM the value in the map is 6963. Divide that by 8192 and you get exactly 85%. I checked this on the duty cycle of the PWM and the vacuum control valve and it is correct, you get an 85% duty cycle with the key on and the engine off.

This means the max value that should be entered into those maps is 8192, anything above that and I am not sure what happens.

This is also true for the X-axis of the drivers wish maps and basically anywhere else you see an 8192. The axis is 0-8192 and represents 0-100%. Divide the values in the x axis by 81.92 and it will work out to exactly 5% increments.



fantastic now I can understand why I see 85% with my scan tool ,

mass ........we can do a damos now , what you think ? :wink:


We are certainly close to being able to make a damos.

Can you also see the output frequency to the turbo actuator on your scan tool? I have been trying to find where the frequency is controlled from within the tune but have not had any luck. I would like to be able to switch to a Hella Electronic actuator from the GTB turbos like GDE did with their turbo kit. When DieselGuy86 releases his upgraded turbo center section I think this would be a great add on. The only thing holding me back is making the switch to 140hz. Right now I see 152.6 Hz using a scope but I am wondering if the scan tool shows something different.

There is a map at 0E3330 in the 808 tune which is a "calibration" map for the Vacuum boost controller. What it does is takes the % output of the VNT Control maps and alters it to reflect the non linear behavior of the vacuum actuator. If you actually put a scope meter on the vacuum wires, you will see the output is 65% despite the VNT maps asking for 85%. If you look at the E3330 map, it converts 85% to 65%. When converting to a Hella Electronic actuator, we can just make this map a 1:1 ratio where 30%=30% and 85%=85% since you no longer have the vacuum system. I tried this on mine and the duty cycle at the wires did go from 65% to 85%.

I thought that the 00066 just prior to this map may have been the control for the frequency since 152.6 Hz is a 6.55 millisecond pulsewidth but when I changed it to 00071 the frequency did not change to 140hz.

There are two other calibration maps that seem similar at 0E63B8 and 0FB468. I am not sure what they do but I think one may be for the gas pedal. All of them have a 00066 directly in front of them.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:58 pm 
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I'll take a look at this map , but for the scan tool ......I only see the percentage ....and probably the volt ...but not sure on this , certainly not the frequency

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:27 pm 
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mass-hole wrote:

We are certainly close to being able to make a damos.

Can you also see the output frequency to the turbo actuator on your scan tool? I have been trying to find where the frequency is controlled from within the tune but have not had any luck. I would like to be able to switch to a Hella Electronic actuator from the GTB turbos like GDE did with their turbo kit. When DieselGuy86 releases his upgraded turbo center section I think this would be a great add on. The only thing holding me back is making the switch to 140hz. Right now I see 152.6 Hz using a scope but I am wondering if the scan tool shows something different.

There is a map at 0E3330 in the 808 tune which is a "calibration" map for the Vacuum boost controller. What it does is takes the % output of the VNT Control maps and alters it to reflect the non linear behavior of the vacuum actuator. If you actually put a scope meter on the vacuum wires, you will see the output is 65% despite the VNT maps asking for 85%. If you look at the E3330 map, it converts 85% to 65%. When converting to a Hella Electronic actuator, we can just make this map a 1:1 ratio where 30%=30% and 85%=85% since you no longer have the vacuum system. I tried this on mine and the duty cycle at the wires did go from 65% to 85%.

I thought that the 00066 just prior to this map may have been the control for the frequency since 152.6 Hz is a 6.55 millisecond pulsewidth but when I changed it to 00071 the frequency did not change to 140hz.

There are two other calibration maps that seem similar at 0E63B8 and 0FB468. I am not sure what they do but I think one may be for the gas pedal. All of them have a 00066 directly in front of them.


real difficult to respond i have compared the 808 with an 615 with different vgt and turbo map and the map at 0e3330 is different , but sincerelly I have not understand how they convert , the other at 0E63B8 seem say at 8192 =100% ...........right ? the other at 0FB468 .....sem close to the first , but I do not understand it ..........need more time , but probably you are near the true ...........but if you want more turbo ............why you do not modify your original and put longer vanes on cold side , you can reach more boost at same speed and they not cost like a new turbo , probably you gain 0,2 bar at same turbo speed

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:21 pm 
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Yeti wrote:
mass-hole wrote:

We are certainly close to being able to make a damos.

Can you also see the output frequency to the turbo actuator on your scan tool? I have been trying to find where the frequency is controlled from within the tune but have not had any luck. I would like to be able to switch to a Hella Electronic actuator from the GTB turbos like GDE did with their turbo kit. When DieselGuy86 releases his upgraded turbo center section I think this would be a great add on. The only thing holding me back is making the switch to 140hz. Right now I see 152.6 Hz using a scope but I am wondering if the scan tool shows something different.

There is a map at 0E3330 in the 808 tune which is a "calibration" map for the Vacuum boost controller. What it does is takes the % output of the VNT Control maps and alters it to reflect the non linear behavior of the vacuum actuator. If you actually put a scope meter on the vacuum wires, you will see the output is 65% despite the VNT maps asking for 85%. If you look at the E3330 map, it converts 85% to 65%. When converting to a Hella Electronic actuator, we can just make this map a 1:1 ratio where 30%=30% and 85%=85% since you no longer have the vacuum system. I tried this on mine and the duty cycle at the wires did go from 65% to 85%.

I thought that the 00066 just prior to this map may have been the control for the frequency since 152.6 Hz is a 6.55 millisecond pulsewidth but when I changed it to 00071 the frequency did not change to 140hz.

There are two other calibration maps that seem similar at 0E63B8 and 0FB468. I am not sure what they do but I think one may be for the gas pedal. All of them have a 00066 directly in front of them.


real difficult to respond i have compared the 808 with an 615 with different vgt and turbo map and the map at 0e3330 is different , but sincerelly I have not understand how they convert , the other at 0E63B8 seem say at 8192 =100% ...........right ? the other at 0FB468 .....sem close to the first , but I do not understand it ..........need more time , but probably you are near the true ...........but if you want more turbo ............why you do not modify your original and put longer vanes on cold side , you can reach more boost at same speed and they not cost like a new turbo , probably you gain 0,2 bar at same turbo speed


Yes you are correct, 0E63B8 has 100%(8192)=100%, but it changes lower down to 90%(7373)=70%, 80%(6554)=60% I dont know what that 8192, 7373, and 6554 represents though, possibly gas pedal duty cycle or something similar.

The map at 0E3330 only has 0-95% on the axis, 7782/8192 = .95. I believe this is because on the Hella electric actuators, the maximum duty cycle is 95% and once you exceed that it goes into safe mode and full opens the vanes. There are several place in the tune that seem to suggest they only allow 5-95% output. The axis values correspond to the values in the VNT control map(0F5CE8), the values in the map are the output values. So in the case of the 808 file, if the VNT map request 85%(6963) then this table changes the actual PWM duty cycle that is sent to the Vacuum solenoid to 65%. If you measure at the vacuum solenoid with the key on, engine off you will see a 65% duty cycle.

I am looking to boost power by quite a bit. DieselGuy is essentially modding the stock turbo. He is going to make a custom center housing with ceramic ball bearings, a new bigger turbine from the GTB2056V and hopefully he can do a 60mm compressor. I am hoping i can get close to 3 bar.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:56 pm 
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I think that the 10x1 map at E33A6(808 Tune) is the MAP Sensor calibration. With this we could in theory change to a 3.5 or 4 bar map and make the voltage corrections here.

Here is a picture of the map in the tune:

Image

Here is a calculation based on the data sheet for our Map Sensors. The data sheet says .4V = 200mbar and 4.65V = 3000 mbar:

Image

The values are not identical but are extremely close. The Voltage in the map axis is determined on a scale of 0-1023. 0 = 0V, 1023=5V.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:24 am 
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yes it can be , this value is for the original MAP or for the new GM MAP sensor ?

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:04 pm 
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Yeti wrote:
yes it can be , this value is for the original MAP or for the new GM MAP sensor ?


This is for the OEM MAP from my stock 808 tune: 0 281 002 437

I think the GM MAP is close enough that it works but it would be very easy to re calibrate for it if need be. My MAP actually reads 890 mbar with the engine off but my phone tells me atmospheric pressure is 806 mbar which is what I would expect at my altitude. I may try to recalibrate it to see if I can get it to read properly. Without a boost gauge I cannot be sure if the readings when the engine are on are correct however.

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:30 pm 
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something wrong with your MAP , my readings is off about 3 hpa external prex 840 , and my map read 843

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:41 am 
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It would be interesting to find the management of electric fan to lower the temperature of 'automatic transmission , any one know at what temp of the oli the electric fan start ?

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:15 pm 
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Yeti wrote:
It would be interesting to find the management of electric fan to lower the temperature of 'automatic transmission , any one know at what temp of the oli the electric fan start ?

According to the SM,
JeepKJServiceManual wrote:
The PCM regulates fan operation based on input from the engine coolant temperature sensor, battery temperature sensor, air conditioning select switch and vehicle speed.

So based on this, it looks like transmission temperature may not input into electric cooling fan operation? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:00 pm 
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yes you are right , but I know that in GDE tune they have activated ;-) and with the data i can try to find it

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:57 pm 
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Hi Yeti, tried my original BIN file and guess what... no viscous heater at all. Now I'm not sure what happened but do remember it stopped working after modifying the mentioned map. :ROTFL:

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 Post subject: Re: understand ECU map
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:51 am 
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for start it you need temp below the 10c , I must wait the winter

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