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understand ECU map http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=83743 |
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Author: | Yeti [ Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | understand ECU map |
I'll try to explain the most important map in the ECU ........not always map .......is impossible , but the most important. no matter what driver in ECM Titanium or other software call this map , first , language Break Point = BP , is the axes X and Y and the Z is the value on the map Intake Manifold Prex = IMP Injected Quantity = IQ Driver Wish =DW Injection Time = IT ok , the first map you can find it's the map for your gas pedal and this map it's torque request during acceleration or DW example on a 808 file BP is rpm/ voltage -position Z is Nm the next map is torque requested during standard condition BP is the same next map is the FCV function during acceleration BP is rpm/ mm3 IQ and Z is mg of air next map is the value for the EGR Histeresy , I think is maf value , there is another metod to delete the EGR , but is another story this map is the first fuel limiter BP rpm/ pressure , Z is mm3/100 , this pressure is read by the map on the air box next map , another fuel limiter BP rpm / IMP , Z is mm3 this map limit fuel during shifting and I think during lockup next map is the quantity adjustment , fuel air for best afr BP rpm/ IMP , Z is mg of fuel , for converting the value in mm3 this is the formula mg/1,13= mm3 1,13 is a factor conversion this map work in conjunction with the IQ / torque map next map is the conversion by the DW in IQ BP rpm / Nm , Z is the IQ in mm3 next map is the torque limiter for every gear BP is rpm , Z Nm the next map is the phase , there are six map that manage the start of injection the value must be converted in degrees , aproximately , 43 point is one degree , but always watch in graphic mode to understanding well the map BP rpm/IQ , Z = degrees next 12 map is the time of the injector opening BP Rail Prex/ IQ , Z= microsecond next map is the vgt vane , 3 map BP rpm/IQ Z= % of the actuator I think normally many tuners decrease this map if the engine have many mile's due to the usury in the vane that can cause overboost condition this is the turbo map BP rpm/IQ Z= BAR/10 in this immage you can see the turbo map , after that there is a one BIT at 2300 , this is the turbo limiter and after this limiter anoter limiter that have BP Volt/BAR Z=BAR , less atmospheric prex always this limiter work with IAT next map is the IMP adjustment next map is the IMP limiter and work on the EGR like a blow off BP rpm ,Z= BAR Rail prex limiter BP rpm /BAR /10 , Z=BAR/10 next map is fuel rail prex BP rpm/IQ ,Z=BAR/10 now there is two bit that limit the rail pressure , if you do not touch it the rail do not surpass the 1600 BAR one bit have 16000 and the other 15997 , there is other fuel limiter in the management and if you do not touch it you have a maximum of 100 mm3 , now in short words the management work like this , you ask fuel with DW , the ECU translate te Nm in mm3 from the IQ map , then see the IMP and adjust it , than see the rail prex needed with the IQ requested on a particular rpm , then go in the IT and see how many microsecond the injector must stay open , see the phase and adeguate the turbo . remember if you increase the rail prex , you shorting the IT opening and do not increase the fuel if you do not fool the ECU hope this help , BTW this can help to do a nice tune if you know what you do have a nice day ps : mm3 and mg must be converted ,example 12500mg /100 = 125 mg etcc |
Author: | Sir Sam [ Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
Thanks Yeti, that information is helpful to beginners. What program are you using to view the tables here? |
Author: | Yeti [ Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
I use ECM Titanium , with a custom modificated driver from me , but the important is to recognize the maps from the form and know what they say |
Author: | Sir Sam [ Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
Yeti wrote: I use ECM Titanium , with a custom modificated driver from me , but the important is to recognize the maps from the form and know what they say Thanks, something about the images you posted made me think it was not ECM Titanium. I agree, recognizing the maps is what will make it so you can see the same maps in different versions of the software. |
Author: | JD3020 [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
Looking at those pictures makes me thankful for the tuning software i use on my trucks. Nice big 3d color maps, easy to read tables, etc... Did cost $400, but it makes life sooo much easier. |
Author: | Yeti [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
ECM also has the 3d display |
Author: | apardo001 [ Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
Yeti wrote: the break point start at 0F4D72 this is water temp in volt but you need a conversion factor , the second break point start at 0F4D82 and this is air temp in fahrenheit /10 and the idle value start at 0F4D8A Idle speed map, courtesy of Yeti. Posting here so it's easier to find in the future, DIY topic is 48 pages already... I noticed there's a 5 minute timer for this map on every start, then it will jump straight to 760 regardless of temperature. |
Author: | Yeti [ Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:50 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
yes there is , but it's an hysteresis if you do not reach the modificatd temp , the rpm stay high at programmed value , thanks to have posted here for increase the time simply increase the low value of the temp in second BP |
Author: | Yeti [ Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
tantalized by a private message, I sought the map that could handle the viscous heater , what you think of address 0F5D12 on a 808-806 tune ? the first break point is formed by 6 bit 2431 2531 2631 2731 2831 and cut at 3231 now for find the temp you must do ...example 2431/10-273 and you have the temp -30 celsius than the map is cutted at 50 celsius the second map is idle rpm break point 2431 2481 2531 2631 2731 2831 2931 3531 second break point is formed by 4 bit 700 800 900 980 the only matching logic for me is this formula 700/10 = 70 F about 21 C when with the scan tool I see the rpm drop at 760 rpm my logic the engine cranck , the sensor see water temp .example 2831 __10c and see the IAT temp , if not reach the 70 F the rpm rise and stay at 895 rpm , then drop if the water temp rise at 2931 __20 c or if the IAT rise at 70f let me know what you think |
Author: | Yeti [ Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
no one ? |
Author: | apardo001 [ Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
re: VH, I have it disabled a long time ago using this map, no cold weather here and reduces rough idle when cold and probably saves some $$, felt like running on A/C all the time. re: idle speed, I've been playing with this map and regardless of temp or values used, idle will drop straight to 760 RPMs after 5 minutes. Also, my jeep does not seem to follow the temps as suggested below... how sure are you about these readings?... the 20C below seems to be 37ish for my jeep, whatever idle value I put in that column will happen around 37C water temp, not 20C... any clues? 2431 -> -30C 2481 -> -25C 2531 -> -20C 2631 -> -10C 2731 -> 0C 2831 -> 10C 2931 -> 20C 3531 -> 80C |
Author: | apardo001 [ Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
Yeti wrote: my logic the engine cranck , the sensor see water temp .example 2831 __10c and see the IAT temp , if not reach the 70 F the rpm rise and stay at 895 rpm , then drop if the water temp rise at 2931 __20 c or if the IAT rise at 70f not following your logic here... during first start IAT will be ambient temp and slowly raise when engine is running... but when jeep is hot and you turn engine off for a couple of mins, IAT goes high around 55C (towards engine compartment temp) and will slowly get down closer to ambient temp when engine is running. Anyways, to my knowledge, higher idle speed is required 2 conditions: cold engine and high altitude. Based on this, I think one map axis corresponds to water temp and the other to barometric pressure. |
Author: | Yeti [ Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:20 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
apardo001 wrote: re: VH, I have it disabled a long time ago using this map, no cold weather here and reduces rough idle when cold and probably saves some $$, felt like running on A/C all the time. re: idle speed, I've been playing with this map and regardless of temp or values used, idle will drop straight to 760 RPMs after 5 minutes. Also, my jeep does not seem to follow the temps as suggested below... how sure are you about these readings?... the 20C below seems to be 37ish for my jeep, whatever idle value I put in that column will happen around 37C water temp, not 20C... any clues? 2431 -> -30C 2481 -> -25C 2531 -> -20C 2631 -> -10C 2731 -> 0C 2831 -> 10C 2931 -> 20C 3531 -> 80C Hi apardoo001 , than you confirm is VH map? and if yes you know the value after the temp ? the next BP early the map ? this temp -2431 etcc it's for water temp , try to increase of 100 point the BP set at 700-800-900-980 , yes can be atmospheric pressure , I have no certainties on this value , but with a scan tool my rpm drop after the IAT rise at 20/21 c , I live at 1500mt aprox 840 mbar but I feel the same even at low altitude |
Author: | Yeti [ Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
ok I have found a damos for GC and yes I can confirm that the 700 -800-900- etcc value in the BP it's hpa |
Author: | mass-hole [ Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:07 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
I live at around 2000m(+/-800 mbar pressure) which would mean it should idle in the 950 rpm range but I don't think I see this. It's not like my water temp or iat is above 80c whenever I start the engine so you would think it would always high idle for 5 minutes, at least on cold starts. Is it possible it is referring to Manifold pressure instead of ambient pressure. My MAP tends to be right around 980mbar here at a 760 rpm idle so I wonder if it gets the turbo spooled up in cold situations. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk |
Author: | Yeti [ Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
your idle stay at 760 rpm even in low temp ?? like 10-30 F BTW if the ambient prex it's 800 hpa , your intake at idle must measure near the same value if not there is something in your tune |
Author: | mass-hole [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
Yeti wrote: your idle stay at 760 rpm even in low temp ?? like 10-30 F BTW if the ambient prex it's 800 hpa , your intake at idle must measure near the same value if not there is something in your tune My point was, if you look at the chart, the RPM's are not varied much based on temperature, the first row is 1000 rpm all the way across the temperature range for example. The 800 row is only dropping from 985 to 935. If the Y-axis truly is ambient pressure, wouldnt our Jeeps(yours and mine since we live at high altitude) always idle higher for the first few minutes regardless of IAT or Coolant temperature? Mine doesnt, it pretty much drops to 760 rpm within about 3 seconds of cranking over with the coolant at 26C and the IAT at 29C. It appears there may be related idle maps as 0F4D0E and 0F4DD6 |
Author: | mass-hole [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
I dont quite understand functionality of the VNT control maps and the Boost map and how they work together. How do the two interact? Does the ECU first adjust the VNT based on the VNT Control map and then back off once it reaches the requested boost in the Boost map? I had a tune with the boost map set up to 2400 hpa out to 4000 rpm, but when I actually logged the boost it was much lower, especially close to 4000 rpm where it was around 2150 hpa. I went back and increased the duty cycle on the 3 VNT Control maps and that helped get it much closer to the 2400 hpa. Now I am running around 2330 hpa. Basically, whats the purpose of the Boost map if the VNT map seems to set the actual boost level? EDIT: Also, is the value at 0F5EE8(07782), directly after the first VNT map in the 808 tune, a maximum VNT duty cycle limiter? Im curious is this is why my engine brake tune never improved after exceeding 75% duty cycle. |
Author: | mass-hole [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
Yeti wrote: tantalized by a private message, I sought the map that could handle the viscous heater , what you think of address 0F5D12 on a 808-806 tune ? the first break point is formed by 6 bit 2431 2531 2631 2731 2831 and cut at 3231 now for find the temp you must do ...example 2431/10-273 and you have the temp -30 celsius than the map is cutted at 50 celsius the second map is idle rpm break point 2431 2481 2531 2631 2731 2831 2931 3531 second break point is formed by 4 bit 700 800 900 980 the only matching logic for me is this formula 700/10 = 70 F about 21 C when with the scan tool I see the rpm drop at 760 rpm my logic the engine cranck , the sensor see water temp .example 2831 __10c and see the IAT temp , if not reach the 70 F the rpm rise and stay at 895 rpm , then drop if the water temp rise at 2931 __20 c or if the IAT rise at 70f let me know what you think 0F5D12 on the 808 tune is right in the middle of the first VNT Control map. was this a typo? Where is the viscous heater map? |
Author: | mass-hole [ Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: understand ECU map |
So i Just played around a bit and it seems the 1x5 map located at 0F4DD6 controls idle but only in neutral and park. Once you shift to Drive or reverse it seems to drop back to 760(actually slightly less.) I changed all 5 values from 760 to 1000 and got a 1000 rpm idle regardless of coolant or IAT temp(started from around 27C). I've now loaded a second tune where the first 4 values are 1000 and the final is 760. With the engine at full operating temperature it idles at 760 again. Unfortunately, since the engine is now ~95C, I am going to have to wait a while to test the idle at lower temperatures. Based on the axis values, the idle change should occur at either 40 or 60C. EDIT: went for a 2 hr mountain bike ride and when I came back the coolant and iat were both 50C. I started the Jeep and it started idling ~ 890rpm and slow dropped linearly to 760 as it approached 60c. So it seems if we want a high idle based on coolant temp, 0F4DD6 is the way to go. |
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