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Crd rebuild
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=89333		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  danruesch [ Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Crd rebuild
So my CRD went to the shop for a blown head gasket. Had it machined, new Rockers and ARP studs. It ran about 3 hours before running awful. Now the shop says cylinder 4 is shot. Looking for recommendations on rebuilding the block if need be and piston performance parts if available.

I know what Sasquatch and ID has. Anything else outside that box please

Thanks

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Author:  vwroad87 [ Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
danruesch wrote:
So my CRD went to the shop for a blown head gasket. Had it machined, new Rockers and ARP studs. It ran about 3 hours before running awful. Now the shop says cylinder 4 is shot. Looking for recommendations on rebuilding the block if need be and piston performance parts if available.

I know what Sasquatch and ID has. Anything else outside that box please

Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


"Cylinder 4 is shot" is not much info for this group to help you with. Compression? Injection? So many things. Many _don't_ recommend milling the nickle surface from the head, I bought a new head when I lost my timing belt.

More info please.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
^^^ What he said ^^^

I'm questioning the professionalism of the mechanic.
facts known
Had blown head gasket.
Head was off and machined
RE-assembled with new parts. (why were new valves not installed?)
3 hours run time = #4cylinder "shot"

for this engine to destroy a cylinder in only 3 hours, it would involve.
- old valve failure. (didn't use new parts in rebuild)
- #4 cylinder had piston/liner defects that were not observed, or were left regardless.
- they simply screwed up putting things back together, such as timing off enough to result in failure.

So, either they overlooked something wrong, they did something wrong, or they didn't replace parts they should have.

with the information we have so far, it really looks pretty bad for your mechanic/shop.
Author:  danruesch [ Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
I did have one over temp when the gasket went. As soon as the temp gauge started to move, I shut it down. After it started running bad after having the head gone through by a machine shop that builds race engines nationally, it happened with the snap of a finger. The first shop ran a compression check and also tested the injectors. They took it to the dealer to put it on a higher level diagnostic machine to look to see if it was an electronic issue. The dealer said the cylinder number 4 has no compression which seemed odd to the first mechanic.

The reason why we had the dealer do diagnostics on it was that there were alot of codes raging from misfire on #3, to fuel pressure, etc etc, nothing made sense.

When the head was done I also put in new rocker arms/lifters, and valves. The head job alone was almost $700 I suggested we put a scope into a few areas now and take a look. Prior to taking the dealer the first shop had ruled out mechanical failure. I guess we will slowly tear it apart and go over the mechanical side of it and see if there is a bad piston or at least use the scope for a first peak and verify compression. It was the dealers theory that damage to the piston occurred during an overheat. That will need to be verified.

Yes, it is possible that #4 cylinder was overlooked and it wasnt addressed.
Yes, maybe the timing jumped, but it was purring after it was back together.

As far as my original question, after a few hours of searching, there arent many performance engine upgrades other than injectors, head studs, turbos, thermostats and tunes it seems
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
Everything GordnadoCRD Stated!

Do you know how the dealer tested for compression? Mechanical gauge or electronic diagnosis?
If indeed there is no real compression on no. 4 confirmed by a real mechanical compression gauge, I highly doubt it is a piston issue. :shock:
The pistons in these engines just don't suddenly give up, almost unheard of unless there is catastrophic failure of some some sort and if had that occured your engine would not have continued to run.
I suspect your engine has an injector, valve, or lifter issue. Will be most interesting to hear what you actually find when you get it apart.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
danruesch wrote:
As far as my original question, after a few hours of searching, there arent many performance engine upgrades other than injectors, head studs, turbos, thermostats and tunes it seems

True, engine performance upgrades are few, but still can offer substantial improvement. Software tunes are probably the best bang for your buck, but you will quickly start exposing component weaknesses. (Exhaust flow, Torque converter, head gasket, etc.)
Most upgrades have to do with reliability and/or correcting OEM engineering deficiencies/weaknesses.
Author:  layback40 [ Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
Hi ,
Sorry to hear of your problems.
I will be following you progress with interest.

I have recently acquired a 2006 build CRD. It has a failed #4.
I am in the process of removing the engine.
So far I have a hole in the block just above the starter. I have the piece of casting that was knocked out along with 2 pieces of piston. They are both from the bottom part of the piston mainly below the piston pin. I suspect there is damage to the liner as coolant leak into the sump. I hope that I can obtain a good used piston & liner & rod if its damaged. If not, a second hand engine will be needed.
It appears that non genuine after market rings dont exist.
I hope you dont mind me posting all this on your thread
Any comments from the CRD Gods will be very welcome.
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
Following along...
Author:  danruesch [ Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
Things are on a delay, the mechanic has influenza. Hopefully this week sometime he gets back to the shop. In the meantime I bought a Depstech Endoscope. If he doesnt have one, I plan on doing some scoping around before anything gets tore apart.
Author:  layback40 [ Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
One small thing I have noticed is that many on the internet have 'ring gap' & ring land width' mixed up. The ring gap is supposed to mean the distance between the ends of a ring when its in the cylinder. The ring land width is how wide the slot in the piston for the ring to fit in is. The difference between the old & new style pistons for the r428 is the ring land width or ring thickness, not the ring gap. In years gone by, one could get a spacer ring to fit in the ring land with the actual ring if the ring & ring land were not matched sizes. i dint think they are about any more.
Author:  danruesch [ Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
Ok. So for some reason cylinder 4 has 4 broken lifters. They were brand new on install and I watched the mechanic prelube them.

More to follow... ImageImage

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Author:  layback40 [ Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
danruesch wrote:
Ok. So for some reason cylinder 4 has 4 broken lifters. They were brand new on install and I watched the mechanic prelube them.

More to follow...


Timing?
Author:  danruesch [ Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
layback40 wrote:
danruesch wrote:
Ok. So for some reason cylinder 4 has 4 broken lifters. They were brand new on install and I watched the mechanic prelube them.

More to follow...


Timing?

I sent the photo to the machine shop that did the head rebuild and they are saying from the picture they believe it was due to a lubrication issue. I plan on stopping at the shop later and looking over everything myself.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
The only thing that will break those rockers like that is if the piston makes contact with the valve.
These engines by design are made to break the rockers should the timing get far enough out to allow a valve to make contact with the top of the piston.
Looks like you had a timing issue that allowed this to happen? :juggle:
Author:  danruesch [ Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
Monday I will take my scope down there and personally look at the top of the piston through the injector hole for signs of any strike marks on the Pistons.
WWDiesel wrote:
The only thing that will break those rockers like that is if the piston makes contact with the valve.
These engines by design are made to break the rockers should the timing get far enough out to allow a valve to make contact with the top of the piston.
Looks like you had a timing issue that allowed this to happen? :juggle:


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Author:  layback40 [ Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
If the timing belt is still intact that will tell you more.
Author:  danruesch [ Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
They already pulled the belt and intake. I guess you are eluding to the fact there may be visible signs of an issue. Strange how it only happened to one cylinder and it was running on three. No damage to the other rockers
layback40 wrote:
If the timing belt is still intact that will tell you more.


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Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
If #4 hit, then #1 should have also, were it simply timing.
Author:  layback40 [ Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
danruesch wrote:
They already pulled the belt and intake. I guess you are eluding to the fact there may be visible signs of an issue. Strange how it only happened to one cylinder and it was running on three. No damage to the other rockers
layback40 wrote:
If the timing belt is still intact that will tell you more.


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I have a theory about what may be causing the problem. It has 2 parts.
1/ the welding of the 2 parts of the exhaust valves is poor & excess heat weakens them. A newer version of this engine was used in the KK outside of the USA & in non jeep cars. The KJ has the ENR engine, the later engine, the ENS had better fuel injection & so better control of temperature.
2/ the length of timing belt between the crank pulley & the fuel pump has a too longer length not supported & so is prone to suffer some sort of vibration that causes a small change to the timing, if enough we have a bang.
Its only a theory on my part. If the newer version of the engine starts having these failures, that part goes out the window.
I wish there were non genuine after market engine parts.
Author:  danruesch [ Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crd rebuild
I stopped down to the shop yesterday and gave it a good looking over. While looking it over I noticed another broken lifter sitting on the head. I got all the lifters from the mechanic and noticed that all of them are showing signs of heat damage. I dont know what they did to destroy a new set of lifters but I am presuming they ran the engine right after install too long and didnt have the coolant system filled and or didn't make sure the oil system was primed/fully up and flowing.

The valve, stems and springs look just fine. I took the cams to a machine shop to look them over just to make sure. They dont show any sign of heat damage.
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