2005 Jeep CRD 2.8

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

Help help help. 2005 Jeep crd 2.8 107k miles. Well maintained and documented. Owned for 11 years. Starting about 2 weeks ago, would just shut off, at speed, idle, no matter. To the point now, will fire early mornings and then just shut down, like a key was turned off in 2/3 minutes or not run at all. Nothing will help refire, bleeding fuel etc., will kill battery. Fuel 'quick' connector sections replaced, inline pump ordered but not in place yet. Racor fuel filter etc. replaced years back. New filter last week, 8000m on old one. Nothing. Yesterday I unbolted fuel filter assembly from firewall and in the bottom portion that is smoked plastic, a noticeable air bubble was evident. Bled system, not so much as a kick. Primer shaft pumped up, perhaps a minute later without a single crank of the engine, prime goes soft, like it hadn't been primed. Priming 30/40 times, no effect.
Where the Jeep just shuts off, I am very torn between a fuel problem and electrical. Fuel rail sensor make this shut off?. Trying the best not to start throwing 500$ bills on expensive ordered parts if possible. Also changed crank sensor, no help at all.
I have limited knowledge, have tools, basic knowledge but insufficient testing equipment. Anyone run into something similar?. Internet is a good 'tool' but rarely gives an end result. Any help would be appreciated. NB Canada.
Dan.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:15 am

The fuel primer pump going soft on it's own is telling, but Without a clear fuel hose between the filter head and the CP3, or a solid blockoff between, it's an unknown as whether it's bleeding forward through the FQS, or backward through the primer pump.

When combined with the other things you mention, I'm inclined to suspect the FQS on the back of the CP3 pump. It's a widely used design, and known to wear out rather than straight up fail in most cases, but either can and does happen.

If the problem is a rearward leak, then it would be an opportune time for an in-tank lift pump as this completely negates the need/purpose of the hand primer, as well as completely eliminates any possibility of air incursion at any point.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:12 pm

one thing to try at least temporary is to remove the fuel heater plug from the fuel head and see if it looks burnt or partially melted if its the old style fuel head you could try sealing the socket that plugged in to with silicone . the new style I believe has one of the two wires blue and shape of fuel head connection is wider . It is the one on the right facing it from front of vehicle.

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

I do thank you for replies. I do understand the basics of what's being said. Without proper testing equipment as well as knowledge to use it, makes things more....challenging. I hope, the inline fuel pump ordered will be connected and arrives tomorrow. Will keep ya posted.
Where the Jeep will nor fire, nor refire after multiple bleeding(s) of the system, is in itself what had leaned me towards a possible electrical fault. Push pull from electrical to fuel I guess.
There remains a real lack of knowledge in my area as well due mainly the low production numbers. Anyone can tell a person to 'try this or that', but the 2/300$ figures for each 'try' is absorbed by the owner.
Again, much thanks.

Dan.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:02 am

Danno150 wrote:

I do thank you for replies. I do understand the basics of what's being said. Without proper testing equipment as well as knowledge to use it, makes things more....challenging. I hope, the inline fuel pump ordered will be connected and arrives tomorrow. Will keep ya posted.
Where the Jeep will nor fire, nor refire after multiple bleeding(s) of the system, is in itself what had leaned me towards a possible electrical fault. Push pull from electrical to fuel I guess.
There remains a real lack of knowledge in my area as well due mainly the low production numbers. Anyone can tell a person to 'try this or that', but the 2/300$ figures for each 'try' is absorbed by the owner.
Again, much thanks.

Dan.

Your last comments are true, but without any of us having actually SEEN the vehicle, the best we can do is guess, comparing what you describe, to our individual experiences. While there is a list of mods to increase longevity and reliability, and some are certainly not cheap, Most of us doing our own work, look for chances, to incorporate mods WITH necessary maintenance/repair when it's needed. You've been around here for quite a while, so I'm sure that's nothing new.

Your comment on electrical faults has some possibilities, but what you are describing is a vehicle that fixes it's self to start, then has a fit like one of those "fainting" goats. What you describe does not present the symptoms of a SKIM key fault. That is Start,then after 3 seconds it dies. There is no variable there. It's exactly the same, every time you put the key in and start it.
IF if it is electrical, it's most likely to be vibration or heat related, in a connector that has loosened, or a wire that's vibrated to create a short or ground event.

But from what you describe, it sounds like a fuel issue of some kind. But it definitely wouldn't hurt to check all of the ground points around the ECM, and the battery side of the engine compartment. Don't forget the 'Geordi ground' under the left headlight, and the ground under the rear weather seal of the hood, in front of the (LH) driver.

Billybob · **Posted:** Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:14 am

The arrival of a fuel pump will answer a lot of questions.
Have you read out any codes?
Fuel problems often do not post codes.

When you re-fitted an older filter...is this filter clean and did you make sure that you do not now have two sealing rubber washers ie. existing one was not removed.

You can swap over the ASD Relay with an identical one under the hood and check all fuses inside the cabin and under the hood. You can also remove the ASD relay and identify female pins 30 and 87 inside the empty socket and jumper those two female pins together and see if engine starts. I ran like this for about a week before getting a chance to track down a broken wire in that area. :wink:

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

Part 3. Jeep CRD no fire. Long story short, connected an inline fuel pump this a/m. Jeep fired right away, ran for the typical a/m 3 minutes, shut off. No way will it refire. Bled system, bled system, bled system, crank, crank, crank. Nothing. So frustrating.
The inline pump, if it were pulling fuel, would it shut off (if primed) or not after the 30 second limiter time prior to starting?. Mine whirls for the 30 seconds then shuts off (inline pump), like it was not labouring or pulling anything?. Perhaps just my mind playing tricks. I cannot be the only Jeep owner running into this sort?.
p/s thanks for the input from all ...so far. I have electrical connections and grounds to go over again. I will disconnect the pump at the filter head to ensure fuel to the front at least as well. If I came on a bit...strong, that was my poor attempt at sarcasm to lighten a bad situation, no offence intended.
New: 16:02. Disconnected fuel line at Racor filter head, ran a 3/8 tube into a fuel jug and cycled key, lots of fuel. Disconnected all under hood connections, checked for chaffing and added electrical grease to all connections. Nothing. I still for whatever the reason am leaning on electrical. Cam Sensor make it act up like this?. Please, craving input....lol and thanks Gord.
Help. Cheers.

Dan.

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

Billybob.
Thanks for the input. Yes I have changed filter (new out of the box) and the old seals replaced and accounted for. Whole system was modified to a Parker Racor system years ago when I had the plaguing and failing original system. It ran flawlessly for 2 days after the filter change, now this. The frosted bowl on the bottom of filter hasn't a spec of anything in it. Racor R25S 2 micron filter. System throwing no codes other than the egr fault that has been on for 8 or so years.
I will (again) check all fuses which I did with an ohmmeter several days ago. I will try and flip flop fuses, perhaps an intermittent problem, difficult to diagnose. I will check, again, all connections for signs of any chafing and grounds.
So- frustrating.
Dan.

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

[b]Part 4 week 3[b]Tried pretty much all that was suggested. Swapped fuses, disconnected all known connections under hood, checked for any evidence of corrosion. I did not and cannot check the on engine fuel pump. Stained the deck or portions, in defeat. Sad.
Brother downloaded the codes last night, nothing surprising really.
P0410- EGR- this has been on foe several years and doesn't make a difference in the way Jeep behaves.
P0700- Transmission. Every now and then it will not shift to high gear. A simple start/ stop of the engine corrects this, done this perhaps 3 times over 11 years. (Couple of weeks ago last).
P0399- Detect Crank sensor fault, this likely due I changed it.
P0299- Low Turbo Boost, it's likely on it's way South.
P0725- This one a bit strange. I never did find out a proper reading for a 2.8 CRD but it ranges on other vehicles from Camshaft sensor to transmission fault, most hits on the latter. I did have this disconnected as many others, to check for corrosion, perhaps why it threw that code?. Anyone?.
Cheers!.
Dan.

Billybob · **Posted:** Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:17 am

OK P0700 and P0725 are transmission related errors which will put the Jeep into limp mode.

You need to download the 2005 Jeep KJ and 2006 Jeep KJ Service manuals here on the link below.

The reason that the 2006 manual is useful is that at the bottom of the Header Page is the DTC Index.
Here in the DTC Index you will find these two codes and which pages to go to ie. Pages 21-102 and also 21-475.

These codes are harder to find in the 2005 Manual but if you have to get into the wiring diagrams then you must use the 2005 manual as the wiring colors differ.

Both pages tell the Jeep Technician to use his Scan Tool which you will not have however you get a general description of what the problems are and can measure some wires for breaks or shorts.

Code P0275 specifically states that it is not a TCM error but could be the Crankshaft Sensor or the connections from the sensor to the ECM or the connections from ECM to TCM. Pretty much the same as the P0399 error where you say you changed the crank sensor....Mopar part? Check the connection to the crank sensor and check the leads from there to the ECM are not broken or shorting to ground.

Jeep KJ Service Manuals: http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ

Have fun..you may have to take it to a Dealer if you cannot find a problem in the wiring yourself or at least get the codes cleared and see what then comes up :wink:

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

Part 5 BillyBob and Gord- thanks for the help. Brother cleared the codes and it won't run long enough - so far- to develop another new code.
No the Crank Sensor was a UAP supplied part. (NAPA). I remain a bit confused why it would run at all, ever, if there were a ground problem?.
I will follow up on the wiring and links you provided and dive under the hood in the a/m once again, far to hot out there now. lol
The connection- another issue/ question. I don't believe so but if it were, was likely present prior to change. I was, quite cautious.
Question: Where I had and am having difficulty's getting 'local' help and in my mind at least I am still split on fuel/electrical as the cause. I called a good friend this a/m that is a local expert on wiring and fuel injection, though he was quick to point out 'not Diesel'. I told him of the problems etc. He said where the vehicle would start and run run for a few minutes and then just shut off, like this a/m by the way, he felt a 'coolant temperature sensor' would cause it to behave in that manor. I asked if it would hinder a vehicle from starting or just shut down, his response was 'It sure would". Not, it could "it sure would".
My follow up info from web provides that it would not, cause gas loss, loss of power etc. but none of what I could find in proper search, was on any form of Diesel let alone specific to mine. Your thought's on that one?.
I did call my supplier, 3 day wait for closest in Oshawa Ontario. None on-line that I could get any quicker.
NEW: 18:37. I did download the User Manual, I looked up the wiring from the Control Module but am having difficulty reading it properly- ie: there's no - pin 42 feeds the crankshaft sensor for example- which is what I need, follow blue over green wire or the like.
I looked in the 'Tech tips' Manual, there what I did see of most interest was a write up on the Rail Pressure Control Valve in particular under "Cause" was in bold "Shut down and failure to start". Thoughts?.
Also- I read somewhere that is while cranking that if the tack does jump then there is connection between crank sensor and ecu, if accurate, mine is working. Unsure how reliable that is.
Thanks again.

Dan.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:47 am

crank position sensor failure is not usually a jump to ground. It usually fails as an internal insulation short at the engine temperature passes a particular temperature point while either raising or lowering temperature past that particular point. If you were to remove it and put it in water with a ohmmeter attached, you will see the resistance changing as the temperature of the water changes, then at some point, it will jump around. In my case it was an erratic reading bouncing up to infinite ohms and back, then as the water reached about 170 degrees, it suddenly began working correctly.

It sounds as if yours "could" be having it's issue at a much lower temperature, perhaps something like 120F. then not work again until the temp has again lowered to around ambient..

Regarding the fuel pump, if you have wired into the correct circuit, the pump will operate for 30ish seconds then shut off IF the vehicle has not started. If it starts, the power should continue to be supplied as long as there is oil pressure or the impact sensor has not been tripped. Check the power you've wired your pump into. If it starts, then shuts off at or just before the engine shuts off, you've probably tapped into the wrong one.

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

Gord
crank position sensor failure is not usually a jump to ground. It usually fails as an internal insulation short at the engine temperature passes a particular temperature point while either raising or lowering temperature past that particular point. If you were to remove it and put it in water with a ohmmeter attached, you will see the resistance changing as the temperature of the water changes, then at some point, it will jump around. In my case it was an erratic reading bouncing up to infinite ohms and back, then as the water reached about 170 degrees, it suddenly began working correctly.

It sounds as if yours "could" be having it's issue at a much lower temperature, perhaps something like 120F. then not work again until the temp has again lowered to around ambient..

Regarding the fuel pump, if you have wired into the correct circuit, the pump will operate for 30ish seconds then shut off IF the vehicle has not started. If it starts, the power should continue to be supplied as long as there is oil pressure or the impact sensor has not been tripped. Check the power you've wired your pump into. If it starts, then shuts off at or just before the engine shuts off, you've probably tapped into the wrong one.

Thanks a bunch, still scratching my head here. Perhaps in part as the Crank sensor is new out of the box....and not cheep as well as non returnable. I hate to take it back off, however if necessary.....I had been led to think perhaps wiring to the sensor and back, though for me at least, difficult to trace in the wiring bundle and when laying on my back for example. I will try as suggested, first on the old one I have...as a practice exercise.
The pump I believe is connected correctly, will run 30 seconds then unless fired, will quit on its own. I disconnected the feed at the filter head and cycled into a diesel can, lots of fuel in my opinion. Tapped into the plug under the drivers rear seat (you tube) video as suggested as the proper plug is evident and available for the gas models in the wiring.
Equally frustrating is my calls to electrical people and diesel people, as soon as either suspect the other as a problem, don't even want to look at it. Past 3 weeks now with no ride or any form of transport. So stinking hot here at present I only have a few hours daily that I can work in it in the yard, yesterday was....brutal.
Cheers.
Dan.

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

[b]Part 6 week 3.[b]Hate to say it but after this a/m's relentless wiring chase and probing, I'v given up. Should another idea come up, please don't hesitate to comment. Found zero evidence anywhere of any chafing or corrosion. Disconnected any found grounds and sanded then reconnected. I am in over my head and need to concentrate on finding someone in my local that can help out. Unfortunately thus far, that as well, has been a dead end road.
There are knowledgeable people here on mass produced engines and products, mention crd or Liberty diesel, they just shake their heads and had no idea one was ever made.
I am still torn between electronics and fuel, leaning on electronics of some kind.
Thanks for all the help. Should anyone know of anyone in the Moncton NB Canada area, please forward suggestions.

Dan.

Billybob · **Posted:** Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:45 am

OK what is the status at the moment?

Codes have been cleared and no new ones show up?
Engine turns over but does not fire or does it fire sometimes and then die either immediately or after a few seconds/minutes?

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

Billybob.
Correct. Engine will not fire, hence cleared codes and will not at present give another, if in fact it would throw one. Will not fire, if it does early a/m's, runs for about 3 minutes then quits. When it does run, there is no rough idle or anything, runs as it should. Likely not long enough to throw another code. It would not run yesterday a/m but I had spent time searching for a bad wire and it was likely in the 90's easily enough before I tried it.
I have in mind, something to do with temperature/ electronics. That said, I am not a mechanic. I need, it appears is someone in my local with the proper equipment and knowledge about the characteristics of the 2.8 crd. A rare blend here, so far non existent.
Thanks a bunch.

Dan.

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

Part 7 week 4. Jeep towed to a diesel mechanic. Brief conversation via phone to tell him what I had done and researched over last 3+ weeks. Head scratching. My brother cleared codes. His Snap On Salesman had dropped by and downloaded. 1 code only - crank sensor. Where sensor had been changed and codes cleared, why this code, bad new sensor?.
My money is on the fuel rail pressure control valve or the coolant sensor, possible wiring to or from sensor (crank).
Will....eventually post end result.

Dan.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:10 am

Danno150 wrote:

Gord
crank position sensor failure is not usually a jump to ground. It usually fails as an internal insulation short at the engine temperature passes a particular temperature point while either raising or lowering temperature past that particular point. If you were to remove it and put it in water with a ohmmeter attached, you will see the resistance changing as the temperature of the water changes, then at some point, it will jump around. In my case it was an erratic reading bouncing up to infinite ohms and back, then as the water reached about 170 degrees, it suddenly began working correctly.

It sounds as if yours "could" be having it's issue at a much lower temperature, perhaps something like 120F. then not work again until the temp has again lowered to around ambient..

Regarding the fuel pump, if you have wired into the correct circuit, the pump will operate for 30ish seconds then shut off IF the vehicle has not started. If it starts, the power should continue to be supplied as long as there is oil pressure or the impact sensor has not been tripped. Check the power you've wired your pump into. If it starts, then shuts off at or just before the engine shuts off, you've probably tapped into the wrong one.

Thanks a bunch, still scratching my head here. Perhaps in part as the Crank sensor is new out of the box....and not cheep as well as non returnable. I hate to take it back off, however if necessary.....I had been led to think perhaps wiring to the sensor and back, though for me at least, difficult to trace in the wiring bundle and when laying on my back for example. I will try as suggested, first on the old one I have...as a practice exercise.
The pump I believe is connected correctly, will run 30 seconds then unless fired, will quit on its own. I disconnected the feed at the filter head and cycled into a diesel can, lots of fuel in my opinion. Tapped into the plug under the drivers rear seat (you tube) video as suggested as the proper plug is evident and available for the gas models in the wiring.
Equally frustrating is my calls to electrical people and diesel people, as soon as either suspect the other as a problem, don't even want to look at it. Past 3 weeks now with no ride or any form of transport. So stinking hot here at present I only have a few hours daily that I can work in it in the yard, yesterday was....brutal.
Cheers.
Dan.

l'm glad to see we are on the same wavelength, as you just put into your own words, precisely what I described above. The issue being, mine works just fine. What I'm trying to find is where yours specifically. is different. Regarding electrical components, I have replaced hundreds of "New-in-Box" items that were bad when removed from the box.

I'm suspicious of the fuel pump timer. What I was trying to determine is, what, specifically happens at 0:30 when it is running, what, specifically, happens to the power to the pump, when: the engine dies. and when: the fuel pump stops supplying. Which happens first, and whether the electrical supply is involved.

Danno150 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm **Posts:** 19

Thanks Gord.
Your help is appreciated. Been away at the Mechanic's for 2 days now. I am concerned where the codes were cleared, and then the same code (crank sensor) came back......I too have had bad electronics out of the carton. The 'made in China' on the bottom of the carton is of concern. When ordered, the fella at the counter has no idea just who is the supplier, all a contract deal I suppose. Perhaps I should have chosen a Bosch part online and waited the 10 days instead of the 3 from Ontario. I had hoped- to have heard from my Mechanic by now but he's more than one on the go. Long weekend here this weekend. At least into Tuesday next now. A full Month today.
Have a good weekend.

Dan.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:24 pm

FYI. If you have an Autozone up there, they sell a re-boxed Bosch OEM sensor in their Duralast line. At lease the last two that I purchased from them were.
And they come with a lifetime warranty.
Crankshaft Position Sensor SU8492
https://www.autozone.com/engine-managem ... 793836_0_0

2005 Jeep CRD 2.8

Who is online