Wet air filter

RFCRD · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:56 pm

GilaMonster wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

Have a True-flow foam filter installed now. Hopefully get some spare time this week to play with the old paper filters and some water to see just what it takes to move the Filterminder.

OK, $64 dollar question (which is about the price of a True-flow if I remember correctly). Is there any noticeable difference, driveability performance or otherwise, with the True-flow foam filter?

Actually a $35 question. I know it's a familiar sales pitch but it's supposed to flow more air but also stop more dirt than paper. I don't notice any difference. I was more interested in it because the foam won't absorb, hold moisture, or wet constrict like paper. Outside of that, I would rather have a disposable premium paper filter.

I understand the wet constriction benefits of a foam filter, but what makes you think that a foam filter will not absorb or hold water? Water is used to clean the foam filter and will obviously flow through it. Additionally, the directions for the filter specify to make sure it is dry after cleaning before adding the tacifier. So, it will hold water. I used an ITG on another vehicle, and it could definately get wet and flow water through the foam media.
So, I'm just curious where you aquired this information because it is contrary to my experiance with foam filters. I'm not trying to argue, but am hoping that you can point me to some evidence contrary because I sure would like this filter to give me some insurance against this water build up in the airbox. I don't think DC will ever honor a hydro-lock damaged engine because it is too easy for them to claim you just ran through a huge puddle.

I did suggest adding more drain holes and enlarging them, did you try that? I did, and I definately do not see the water level evidence I did before. Possibly dropped the water line from 2.5 inches to about .5 inches after I drove through heavy monsoon downpours.

You are completely missing the problem with this airbox. It has nothing to do with airbox filling with water (drainage problem) nor am I trying to prevent a hydrolock as one might experience while water fording. The factory air intake does not baffle rain water and it gets sucked straight to the filter. Before modifying my intake by installing a baffle, I have pulled soaking wet paper air filters out of mine after expressway driving in the rain. Paper is absorbant, takes on water and constricts no different than the paper element in your shop vac. This foam in this filter is corse (unlike the foam filter on a lawnmower) and the synthetic materal is non-absorbant. As far as I'm concerned, what little water makes it past the baffle can pass through the filter as long as it doesn't constrict.

longarm · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:03 pm

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Jeger · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:24 pm

Did you miss the part about the gasser airbox fitting the CRD?

longarm · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:02 pm

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Jeger · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:25 pm

longarm wrote:

Jeger wrote:

Did you miss the part about the gasser airbox fitting the CRD?

What do you mean? I know that it's the same airbox. I was wondering about the conical. They come with heat shields that help somewhat get colder air in and keep the hot air out. The thing I am not sure of is on the airbox itself there is a thing that plugs into it. I can't remember if my previous 04 Sporttrack had that or not. I remember that when I installed the K&N FIPK on that there was something that plugged into the actual tube on that. I'm wondering if that would be the same. The real interest would be that conical air filter setup that is oil free. That seems like it would draw alot more air. I'm just wondering if the theory is sound or not. I'm mechanically challanged. The instructions on the first K&N FIPK that I bought for my Ford Full Size a few years ago stated that it was about an hour intsall time at most I believe. I did it in 3.5 hours with a 6 pack and alot of profanity. :lol:

I guess I thought you were looking for a solution to the wet air filter problem more so than increased airflow. It appears that the snorkel that is on the gasser box pretty much fixes the wet filter problem and also seems to improve throttle response for the CRD as well, which would indicate less restriction to flow also. As far as the conical filters go you will have to wait for someone else to chime in but it seems that they dont filter as well from what I have read.

longarm · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:18 pm

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RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:27 am

longarm wrote:

Jeger wrote:

Did you miss the part about the gasser airbox fitting the CRD?

What do you mean? I know that it's the same airbox. I was wondering about the conical. They come with heat shields that help somewhat get colder air in and keep the hot air out. The thing I am not sure of is on the airbox itself there is a thing that plugs into it. I can't remember if my previous 04 Sporttrack had that or not. I remember that when I installed the K&N FIPK on that there was something that plugged into the actual tube on that. I'm wondering if that would be the same. The real interest would be that conical air filter setup that is oil free. That seems like it would draw alot more air. I'm just wondering if the theory is sound or not. I'm mechanically challanged. The instructions on the first K&N FIPK that I bought for my Ford Full Size a few years ago stated that it was about an hour intsall time at most I believe. I did it in 3.5 hours with a 6 pack and alot of profanity. :lol:

If I understand you correctly you are looking for an intake designed like aftermarket intakes where the corner of the engine compartment is segregated by sheet metal (to make a box) with a cone filter on an intake tube located in the middle. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work as long as the tube design includes ports for the MAF and whatever that 2nd sensor is in the airbox lid. This is a lot of $$$ and time compared to other fixes. You are corrrect that the cone filter would probably flow more air, but so do the K&N drop-in filters. This is again a personal choice, but I won't have a k&N on this engine given the already oily intercooler. That sticky/wet intercooler will be nothing more than a trap for the excess dirt that will get past the K&N.

What I did was probably the cheapest fix (@$20), the easiest would be using the gasser airbox & intake snorkle. Either one appears to be effective.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:56 am

You'll end up paying $200, in some cases considerably more, for an aftermarket cold air intake, and there's no guarantee that what you get will actually fit. Been there, done that.

If you're not mechanically inclined, then switching over to a V6 air filter housing and air inlet should address most of your concerns. It's a direct fit and uses stock Jeep parts. You can find a used V6 airbox on line for as low as $65, dealer price is $138 for a brand new one. Air inlet tube is $14 and water baffle/dam is $12 at the dealer.

As far as cold air intake, the location of the V6 air inlet seems to address this. Ranger1 reported that when he removed the water baffle during dry weather, he got a noticeable ram air effect at speed, and noticeable effect on performance. This would indicate that the inlet is getting plenty of outside air without any air flow restriction.

longarm · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:22 pm

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Ripster · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:32 pm

Nope the opening will not fit from what I have read. The bottom fits with our current top, the opening is different, add the rest of the parts
and I am installing a filterminder and then the intake will be up to my standards. $75 for the used airbox complete, $25 for the new filterminder.
Will keep the old one for show and tell.

Longarm once I get home tonight, I will send you a photo of a Canadian CRD with the setup we are
trying to get on ours.

longarm · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:37 pm

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Tom_with_a_Dream · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:39 pm

Gasser air cleaner box has a rectangular, up-facing inlet. This connects to the $14 and $12 parts RFCRD mentioned.

CRD air cleaner box (same dimensions and tabs and all that) has a circular, front-facing inlet. This connects to an accordian tube leading to the grill and head light.

The water coating the filter comes straight in the CRD airbox whereas the water cannot negotiate the 90 degree down and 90 degree rear turns.

RFCRD manufactured a cheap-to-make baffle he installed inside his CRD airbox. I and others have simply pruchased a gasser airbox and inlet pipe/damper and replaced them.

I bought my airbox on ebay (2002-04 V06 Liberty air cleaner box, not sure if the 2005-06 V-6 are same) for $25, including shipping. Another $22 at the dealer for the other parts.

Eliminating the water on the filter will prevent the filter from getting "clogged" with water and will prevent (or minimize) the turbo from leaking oil past its seals to fill your intercooler with oil. Installing a different filter is risky (my opinion) due to the demand to have clean air hitting that turbo, intercooler, and engine. Many seem to offer high flow rates (for power increases) but allow more dirt to pass.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:00 pm

If you want to see photos of the baffle, go back to @ page 3 or 4 of this thread. Just above my photos are other photos of the older style gasser airbox with the high intake.

Adding the baffle is not as difficult as it might look. You will need a 4 inch "street 90" sewer elbow, sabre saw and a drill.

Ripster · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:20 pm

This is my goal

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:34 am

On the V6 air filter housings - if I remember correctly, Ranger1 mentioned that on the '03 and up V6 housings there was an extra hose connection on the side of the housing - this is the breather connection for the PCV system on the V6 engine. An '02 V6 housing doesn't have this extra hose connection.

Shouldn't be a problem if you do get a housing for an '03 and up - simply plug or cap the breather hose connection.

Just to make it clear - you only have to replace the BOTTOM half of the air filter housing. The CRD lid, with the MAF and other sensor, matches right up to the bottom half from a V6. Same mounting feet, same air filter, same size, only difference is the size and configuration of the air inlet.

To plagarize Geico, this mod is so easy even a caveman could do it. It's plug and play with stock factory parts.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:45 am

longarm wrote:

Cool thanks Ripster. I just took a couple of pics and uploaded them. Here they are, I hope this helps identify which box I have.

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That's the "new" CRD intake which goes to the grille. The "old" V6 gasser housing has a rectangular opening that faces up on the front of the housing. A 90 degree rectangular plastic snorkel tube snaps into this opening and it's inlet will be just above and behind the flat crossbrace that runs across the top of the radiator/grille area. The plastic trim piece that's called the water dam or baffle snaps into place on the front side of the crossbrace.

Ripster · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:14 pm

Ok here is a picture of both types of boxes:

And this is with the snorkel on:

Now I just have to get the flap for in front of the open scoop which will
deflect a straight on entry of rain or debris. Now I can put a canvas
cover over the entire grill for the -20 weather without shutting off the
air to intake scoop which gets its air just like a gasser

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:59 pm

Good work Ripster, looks clean and factory like. :wink:

Ripster · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:05 pm

The 2002 Liberty Gas Airbox is a perfect fit, now for that flap.

Jeger · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:48 pm

Now I really need to go find one for myself, Nice pics too, just the comparison shot I was looking for.

Wet air filter

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