here is the email and reply I sent to DCX through the jeep.com web site
I have <edited> parts to keep personal info out ... feel free to comment and I will most likely put together a response and post that and a reply as well:

Dear Timothy:

Thank you for contacting the Chrysler Group Customer Assistance Center.

Recall F37 is not an overall reduction in torque. The recall is for the
management of the torque to enhance torque converter and transmission
durability. This management of the torque will not affect the towing
capability of the vehicle.

Engine information shown in the brochure is as follows:

Horsepower (SAE net @ rpm) - 160 @ 3,800

Torque (net lb-ft @ rpm) - 295 @ 1,800

Thanks again for your email.

Sincerely,

Sam

Senior Staff Representative
Chrysler Group Customer Assistance Center

For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the following information:
REFERENCE NUMBER: <edited>
EMAIL CASE NUMBER: <edited>
REPLY LINK: <edited>


Original Message Follows:
------------------------

Recall Information - Jeep Brand Site
Brief Description:
F37 recall questions
Comments:
I have concerns with the "small reduction in engine torque" as part of
the
f37 recall. I would like to get exact numbers as one of the original selling points for this vehicle for me was the towing capacity and the torque numbers that made it very easy.



VIN: <edited>
Mileage: 26000
Servicing Dealer: <edited>
Title: Mr.
First Name: Timothy
Middle Initial: <edited>
Last Name: <edited>
Address 1: <edited>
Address 2:
City: <edited>
State: <edited>
Zip: <edited>
Email: <edited>
Home Phone: <edited>


--

It appears that you received a form letter/email for Sam because this reply is identical to an email reply received from bigiron (Brian) posted in this thread:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=15086&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=555

Later in that thread you'll see that I suggested that Brian email ol' Sam back and ask for further amplification because Sam's reply really doesn't tell us much.

Further down you'll see an exchange between MrMopar64 and I where MrMopar64 supposedly received some inside scoop from sources that are said to have worked on the F37 CSN. As I mentioned in that exchange, if what MrMopar64's sources have reported is true, well then that would indicate that good old Sam if feeding both you and Brian a load of $Hi&!.

So what does it all mean? Who knows...

I'll suggest the same thing to you. Email good old Sam back for further clarification and see what happens.

email sent as below ... we'll try the honey approach before the squeaky wheel.

HI Sam ... would it be possible to get any more specific info on what exact parameters are being altered with regards to the flash part of the F37? How exactly is the management parameters changed with regards to actual numbers? If you could supply some before and after numbers it would be greatly appreciated. I would also like to share this information with a BB I belong to that has shown great concern with this recall and all the information we have gleaned so far from DC and/or Dealers has been a little vague, so to speak.

I think concrete numbers of what the F37 flash does (compared to before numbers) will help many to dissect how this fix is going to alter their Jeep experience.

If you need to pass this email along to anyone else to get the proper numbers, feel free to do so.

Thank you very much,

Tim

I followed up and got no further information.

Dear Brian:

Thank you for contacting the Chrysler Group Customer Assistance Center.

I reviewed all information available regarding the F37 recall,
unfortunately none of the information I have refers to exactly what was
changed regarding stall speeds, shift points, or torque curve
programming.

The information you are seeking unavailable from DaimlerChrysler Motors
Corporation. General information on the subject matter may be available
through your local dealership.

We appreciate your interest.

Thanks again for your email.

Sincerely,

Sam

Senior Staff Representative
Chrysler Group Customer Assistance Center

For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the
following information:
REFERENCE NUMBER:
EMAIL CASE NUMBER: 1636740
REPLY LINK:
http://www.chrysler.com/wccs/brand_form ... 25261L0KM&


Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Sam,

Thank you for your prompt reply. I would appreciate your continued
support on the follow-up questions listed below:

What is meant by "management of the torque to enhance torque converter
and
transmission durability"? Does that mean reducing/managing torque during
shifting? Does it mean playing around with stall speeds or shift points?
Does that mean changes to torque curve programming?

It's nice to know that towing will not be affected. However, another
area
where diesels are advantageous is getting heavy loads rolling from a
stop
(an area where I believe stall speeds are important). I wonder what
impact
F37 has on this?

Thank you for your support.
Brian

_________________
2006 Liberty Sport 4x4 CRD
Inferno Red
Skid Plates, Security Group, Towing Group, OEM Cargo Mat, Fumoto Oil Valve
(Boulder Bars Coming Soon)
2003 Honda S2000
Sebring Silver

Just wondering what you expected DC to tell you. It's not as if they will admit to anything, especially knowing how close they are to getting sued. They have been in denial over every engineering issue on this vehicle for over 2 years now. They are entrenched in corportate damage control.

_________________
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Lt Khaki, sunroof

Thankful to now be an EX-CRD owner.

Seems to me that if Sam/DC is "unable" (read: unwilling) to tell current owners the information about what the F37 actually does in terms of shift points, torque, etc., owners have a good argument to make for not getting it done and holding the manufacturer responsible for the warranty anyway.

Downside of that is that in the case of a warranty claim, you'll end up with the F37 recall anyway. But at least then you would likely get the pump.

It would be nice if DC would give us the option of proactively reimbursing us for the parts and labor cost for the F37, and let us apply that toward a real (aftermarket) fix for the problem. They would also then have the added benefit of no longer being responsible for longevity of the parts that were replaced, such as the pump and TC.

But how much good is it likely to do to try to reason with a corporation, particularly one that is bleeding?

_________________
George Reiswig
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary

So basically it sound like Sam is saying he doesn't know what the He!! is going on and that he's only authorized to offer meaningless canned statements like: "Recall F37 is not an overall reduction in torque. The recall is for the management of the torque to enhance torque converter and transmission durability..." Or, Sam might be saying that he can only give you the information that he has access to, which isn't much.



Now we know Sam is full of it... Give us a break Sam! Your engineers know exactly what was done in the F37 CSN and what impact it will have. So to say that DCX doesn't have specific information about the impact of this CSN is insulting!



I suspect there is no truth in that statement either.

Well, I expected an honest answer. I'm not sure if I got one or not. If I did get one, the Sr. Customer Service reps at DCX are far removed from engineering. This is my first Chrysler vehicle, and I'm not impressed. The only new vehicles I've owned are a 1998 Mustang Cobra (no problems ever.....wonderful ride), an 03 Honda S2000 (absolutely love it), and the CRD Liberty. The mustang and S2000 are high-strung vehicles. I expected some issues, but got none. I've had the Liberty in the shop for the ESP / clockspring problem, and now I have to get 3 recalls done on it on top of a leaking windshield. I love the concept of a small/midsize diesel SUV, but I am regretting this purchase after only 9 months and 7700 miles. Thanks DCX.

_________________
2006 Liberty Sport 4x4 CRD
Inferno Red
Skid Plates, Security Group, Towing Group, OEM Cargo Mat, Fumoto Oil Valve
(Boulder Bars Coming Soon)
2003 Honda S2000
Sebring Silver

I'm just as dissappointed after having owned many fine Chrysler products. Just didn't believe the early complaint blogs as legitimate problems or that any manufacturer would dare let them into the market. Now into wait & see mode while I look for a replacement option without loosing my shirt. Fortunately I didn't trade anything when I bought the Liberty so I have the luxury of other rides when this one is down. What was really amusing was the Service Manager asked me last Tuesday if I was going to trade this on a new GC CRD. He got an earfull.

_________________
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Lt Khaki, sunroof

Thankful to now be an EX-CRD owner.

Same feelings here. In my case, working for Freightliner, and therefore DC, I get the full employee discount regardless. But it will probably be a cold day in Hades before I use it again, if ever.

And there's quite a few at the plant where I work that feel the same. We've had the employee discount as an affliate company for the last 8 years, and many people decided to take advantage of it and give DC vehicles a try. Now, what I hear mostly are complaints about quality, dealership practices, and warranty issues. Only positive comments I've heard are from some who bought a Neon or a Cummins pickup.

When your own employees would rather pay full price for a competitor's vehicle, that should tell you it's time to wake up and smell the coffee and set things right, or your company is going bye-bye.

The best car that I've purchased new has also been the cheapest. An '87 Subaru GL Wagon, $12K brand new. Still sitting in the driveway, still runs and gets 25 mpg commuting to work, 162k miles. It's taken me 3 tries to find a vehicle that lives up to the reliability of this little 4 banger - an '04 Dakota, then the CRD, and finally the winner - a used '87 MB diesel.

That really says it all, when I have more faith in a 20 year old Subaru than a brand new DC vehicle.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

I think a lot of us are regreting this purchase.. I keep thinking I shouldv'e held off and bought a new 4-door wrangler... not sure if they have had many problems with them so far either though.. all in all probably shouldv'e kept my Toyota..

_________________
Emilio

2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Viper remote starter / alarm
Rocky Road 2.5" Lift
"Rubicon" 16" Wheels
Goodyear Wrangler MT/R - 245/75/16 -
EDGE Products CRD EZ Module

I regret it until I drive it off road or in the snow or on a long trip.. then I smile. I regret dealing with DC and I regret that I now have a payment and have to spend money to fix stuff. The CRD is the red-headed stepchild. I am glad my daily driver is a Corolla. It is reliable and gets good fuel mileage.

I will just wheel the h3ll out of the CRD-- it is loosing value so why not? I think that many will fix these and wheel the tar out of them. The half-shafts (CV's) are my next worry-- after what we are already dealing with (tranny and fuel). Those shafts are just for the CRD and expensive to procure. Sooner or later-- some one is going to break one. Yikes.

On the bright side the windshield for an Toyota FJ is currently at $1000+ as only Toyota makes them. Suddenly, I don't feel quite so bad.

I think it's becoming very important to find ways to control an owner's stress level with the CRD. Having a stroke isn't covered under DC's warranty. Just look at it this way. The CRD is unique and mechanically challenged (pc for a POS). It's a hobby to keep it going, actually now a quest and an obession because I refuse to let any machine beat me. Hey, if I can make an Olds diesel work, I can make this one work too. Right???

Wonder if we can get those foam stress squeeze toys made in the shape of a Liberty?

_________________
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Lt Khaki, sunroof

Thankful to now be an EX-CRD owner.

It sounds all these customer service reps conflict with themselves as a friend of mine called them and was told it WAS an overall reduction in torque. I guess the only way to truly find out is a before/after dyno run.

_________________
Ryan
2006 Ford F-250 PSD CC FX4
**GONE**
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
SAMCO Hoses//GDE Tune//PML Trans Pan//TransGo HD Shift Kit//MBRP Exhaust

1986 2R Mustang SVO

Is there any chance that instead of spending days and days emailing and internet bi!ching that you could all just drive and enjoy your vechicle? I mean do you really miss the F37 torque that much? If so sell the darn thing and be done with it....good luck finding a similar replacement because no other manafacturer has stepped up to the plate thus far to offer a similar product in North America.

If you did your research you would have known that Chrysler has a LONG history of shi!!!y transmissions, I full well knew this when I bought my Jeep and if my tranny dies, I will not be surprised, but I have warranty so I wont loose sleep.

Anyway, enough of this rant...if your that pissed sell the darn truck to somone who will appreciate and enjoy the sound, power and even the smell of a very nice and very unique diesel vechicle.

Like I said before, If I was leasing mine, like you are leasing yours, I wouldnt be worried about any of this stuff either. You are not going to have to live with this stuff like everyone who is buying theirs.

_________________
It may be that your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

06 CRD Sport
Built 5/11/06
Jeep Green
Rocklizard diff cover
V6 Airbox

Leasing is my Domestic Vechicle Purchase security blanket. If I lease and it turns out to be a pile of crap, then at the end of 39 months I give it back oweing nothing, they cut me a cheque for the remaining extra kms I included at the time of purchase. If I really like it and want to keep it I can extend the lease for an additional 12 months, or I can buy the vechicle out. For me its a much more flexable option as opposed to buying it, risking getting stuck with a Lemon, and/or suffering depreciation.

There's internet access in Newfoundland? Wow, I thought it was only sheeps and Jeeps and that Newfies were still looking for "any key"... LOL

The best way to avoid these rants would be to... not read 'em!!! There's a good chance that if you see a thread with "F37" in it, there will be a ton of bitching. With that in mind, might be best not to read 'em.

Back to the subject matter... we need data. I've not had the F37 work done to my Liberty yet. I've called a local performance shop and will be getting before and after dyno runs done to see how the flash affects the power band. If it's pretty dramatic, I'll be raising hell based on the fact that the car is not what they sold it to be, and therefor changing the specs after the sale is "bait & switch". I'll post the data as it comes available.

_________________
Lance Zielinski
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD
2000 VW New Beetle GLS TDI (sold)
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited (sold)

huh ? I guess I should throw a smiley face or two in all my posts to lighten the mood.

This was just a semi-informative email to others in our little CRD world passing along what little info I could harvest from DC. And, FWIW, I received no second reply. Maybe they are circling the wagons now?

Hopefully one of us will get some concrete numbers we can cite to others with references.

I finally sent an email to Jeep tonight also. Tired of just waiting for them to "DO THE RIGHT THING" and give us a Diesel Specific TC and better Transmission Pump to keep the fluid where it needs to be.

We need a TC with stall speed in the 1200-1300 range. I think? that the stock TC in the CRD has a stall speed of about 1650-1700. Instead of reducing the torque and putting in a TC with a stall speed that is higher than 1800...the stall speed of 1200-1300 will apply the TC at a lower torque range than the 295# @ 1800. This way you don't need to reduce torque and you get to use the whole torque curve.

_________________
Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph