CRD Grand Cherokee available for order today.

Jeger · **Posted:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:30 am

Multi-Speed Overdrive Automatic Transmission

The high-performance 545RFE 5-speed transmission is fuel efficient and responsive. Its fifth, overdrive gear helps reduce noise and fuel consumption. It also features an alternate second gear for smoother downshifting at high speeds.

What is the deal with this, sounds like the tranny we have in the KJ CRD. This option is excluded when you pick the 3.0 CRD on the GC. "Multi-Speed Overdrive Automatic Transmission is not available with 3.0-Liter V6 Turbo Diesel Engine. Selecting a different part will make this transmission available." And you cant get the W5A580 either. I find this interesting. Maybe they are trying something different alltogether with this go round?

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

A quote from the USA article on the transmission problem in the MB ML diesel:

Quote:

• Problems. In the R, the seven-speed automatic often shuddered violently during light-throttle, low-speed upshifts. Mercedes says others have experienced rough shifting, and it has sent dealers a bulletin on how to reprogram the transmissions to solve the problem.

Oh Yeah, baby - we're off to the TSB races !! Flash DeJour will be served shortly. Does any of this sound familar? How long will it be before these new owners hear "We're sorry Sir/Mam, we cannot duplicate the problem. Our tech drove it all day and it never failed once. Try it for a couple of weeks and if its still there, bring it back and we'll check it out again."

The difference at the MB dealership is that these diesel owners will receive their own assigned parking space for the flash of the month club.

crdmike · **Joined:** Tue May 16, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 138

Ranger1 wrote:

A quote from the USA article on the transmission problem in the MB ML diesel:

Quote:

• Problems. In the R, the seven-speed automatic often shuddered violently during light-throttle, low-speed upshifts. Mercedes says others have experienced rough shifting, and it has sent dealers a bulletin on how to reprogram the transmissions to solve the problem.

Oh Yeah, baby - we're off to the TSB races !! Flash DeJour will be served shortly. Does any of this sound familar? How long will it be before these new owners hear "We're sorry Sir/Mam, we cannot duplicate the problem. Our tech drove it all day and it never failed once. Try it for a couple of weeks and if its still there, bring it back and we'll check it out again."

The difference at the MB dealership is that these diesel owners will receive their own assigned parking space for the flash of the month club.

It's a simple fix: Program the ECU power/torque cuve just below the shudder - Smart move DCX.

DadsDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:54 pm

Hi,

I just had to pipe in on this one. I am currently in Ireland on an assignment for my company and I'd say 60-70% of all vehicles here are diesel. Most likely they are 90% standard shift. One of the women I work with here has NEVER driven an automatic!

I mean I have seen several types of SUV's here and they all have in the model nomenclature on the back doors/panels:

Isuzu 3.0i or VW Tdi or TDi yada, yada, yada.. you get the idea.

In the past week I have ridden in more cabs than I would care to admit to and they are ALL diesels. Not euro-econoboxes either. They are Volvos, Benzs, Audis, and BMWs. There are Toyota Camrys and VW Passats too.

We all know they have been shipping CRD Libbys all around the world for longer than the two years they have been sold here. I would like to know how many go out automatic. Keeping with the general rule of percentages... it must be 10-15%??

There are all kinds of American manufacturers in joint ventures manufacturing cars and in south america the ford ranger comes standard with a diesel!!!

To finish my editorial... doesn't almost feel like there is some kind of monkey business going on in the US market that makes it hard to sell quality diesel vehicles here??

My wife thinks the Libby is too small... I showed her ads for the GC CRD and told her once they have been out for a year I would get her one.... except it looks like now it will have to be an '08 or later till they get the bugs worked out.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:02 pm

crdmike wrote:

Ranger1 wrote:

A quote from the USA article on the transmission problem in the MB ML diesel:

Quote:

• Problems. In the R, the seven-speed automatic often shuddered violently during light-throttle, low-speed upshifts. Mercedes says others have experienced rough shifting, and it has sent dealers a bulletin on how to reprogram the transmissions to solve the problem.

Oh Yeah, baby - we're off to the TSB races !! Flash DeJour will be served shortly. Does any of this sound familar? How long will it be before these new owners hear "We're sorry Sir/Mam, we cannot duplicate the problem. Our tech drove it all day and it never failed once. Try it for a couple of weeks and if its still there, bring it back and we'll check it out again."

The difference at the MB dealership is that these diesel owners will receive their own assigned parking space for the flash of the month club.

It's a simple fix: Program the ECU power/torque cuve just below the shudder - Smart move DCX.

Maybe as a convenience for the Benz, they can just reflash them with a wireless arrangement so you don't even have to visit the dealer.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:28 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

A quote from the USA article on the transmission problem in the MB ML diesel:

Quote:

• Problems. In the R, the seven-speed automatic often shuddered violently during light-throttle, low-speed upshifts. Mercedes says others have experienced rough shifting, and it has sent dealers a bulletin on how to reprogram the transmissions to solve the problem.

Oh Yeah, baby - we're off to the TSB races !! Flash DeJour will be served shortly. Does any of this sound familar? How long will it be before these new owners hear "We're sorry Sir/Mam, we cannot duplicate the problem. Our tech drove it all day and it never failed once. Try it for a couple of weeks and if its still there, bring it back and we'll check it out again."

The difference at the MB dealership is that these diesel owners will receive their own assigned parking space for the flash of the month club.

Close to 30 years later and MB still has issues with rough shifting :lol:

It has now evolved from trouble-shooting vacuum systems to reprogramming transmission control computers. :lol:

Torque Monster · **Posted:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:35 pm

Jeger wrote:

Multi-Speed Overdrive Automatic Transmission

The high-performance 545RFE 5-speed transmission is fuel efficient and responsive. Its fifth, overdrive gear helps reduce noise and fuel consumption. It also features an alternate second gear for smoother downshifting at high speeds.

What is the deal with this, sounds like the tranny we have in the KJ CRD. This option is excluded when you pick the 3.0 CRD on the GC. "Multi-Speed Overdrive Automatic Transmission is not available with 3.0-Liter V6 Turbo Diesel Engine. Selecting a different part will make this transmission available." And you cant get the W5A580 either. I find this interesting. Maybe they are trying something different alltogether with this go round?

The grand Cherokee CRD will use the W5J400 5-speed auto (also known as the WA580 & 722.6). The only difference being (I think) is that the WA580 is manufactured in the USA at the Kokomo, Indiana plant, while the W5J400 is manufactured at M-B’s Hedelfingen transmission plant in Germany.

It looks like, in fact you can get a 2WD Laredo with the 3.0 V6 Turbodiesel. The price starts at $36,110 (MSRP, including destination). With rebates, the price could be much less.

Chris

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

It is just sad to think the Grand will probably get better mileage than my Liberty.

KJbob · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:27 pm

I just priced out a Grand Cherokee Laredo CRD on Jeep's website.

4X4, X Pkg, CRD option, Trailer tow Pkg = $39,605. :shock:

As a reference I can get a Grand Cherokee Limited with a Hemi for $39,765. This is before any rebate.

Other than towing capability, why would I want to get a Laredo CRD?

Given the current difference in price for diesel fuel vs. gas (in my area) I figure I would save less than 100 bucks a year going with the "less expensive" Laredo CRD.

A $5k CRD option for a Laredo is ridiculous...no thanks (well unless they offer a $5k rebate on top of all other rebates for this vehicle).

What was DCX thinking? :roll:

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:08 pm

Strange that it is a $5,000 option on the Laredo, and a $2,000 option on the Overland.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

DCX IS ON DRUGS!!

I just went to the jeep site and the cheapest build I could find for the GC diesel was over 42k. At that price the dealers better figure on having their detail guy check for cobwebs under the chassis as they won't be moving very much.

Torque Monster · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:19 pm

So there’s no more confusion or misinformation, here are the facts from Jeep’s U.S website as of today.

2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD pricing:

Laredo (X Pkg.)
4X2 $36,340 (3.0-Liter V6 Turbo Diesel Engine Pkg.- $3,770 -Included)
4X4 $39,350 (3.0-Liter V6 Turbo Diesel Engine Pkg. - $5,040 - Included)

Limited
4X2 $38,475 (3.0-Liter V6 Turbo Diesel Engine Pkg.- $3,050 - Included)

Overland
4X2 $41,960 (3.0-Liter V6 Turbo Diesel Engine Pkg.- $2,010 - Included)
4X4 $45,395 (3.0-Liter V6 Turbo Diesel Engine Pkg.- $2,010 - Included)

Options

Extra cost paint....$150.00-225.00
17" x 7.5" Aluminum Chrome Clad Wheels....$820.00 (Limited, Overland)
Delete Sunroof...-$500 (Limited)
AM/FM Stereo Radio w/In-Dash 6-Disc CD/MP3 Player....$300.00 (Laredo, Limited)
UConnect® Hands-Free Communication....$225.00 (Laredo, Limited)
Navigation/Rear Back-Up Camera Group....$2,190.00 (Laredo, Limited)
Electronic Infotainment System Group....$1,395.00
Engine Block Heater....$40.00
ParkSense®Rear Park Assist System....$225.00 (Laredo, Limited)
P245/65R17 OWL All Terrain Tires....$190.00
Trailer Tow Group IV....$255.00 (Laredo, Limited)
Skid Plate Group (4X4 only)....$295.00 (Laredo)

(All prices are MSRP)

Current rebates are:
$3500 consumer cash or 1.9-3.9 APR (Purchase)

Chris

KJbob · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:28 pm

Rebates expire at midnight on 1/31/07.

They will probably continue in some form or fashion but I doubt a rebate is going to be offered on the CRD so quickly. When DCX realizes that people aren't crowding the showrooms to order their $40k Laredo, maybe then we'll see rebates.

Torque Monster · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:30 pm

Yes, they expire 1-31-07.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Production isn’t to start for another month anyway.

Chris

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:44 pm

Do the rebates even apply to the CRD model? I know VW excludes the TDI from all rebate and apr incentive programs. I just don't see how this is going to work for DCX. I think one of the things that made the Liberty work was the low cost. I also don't understand why anyone would buy a jeep in 4x2. The whole pupose of owning a jeep (to me anyway) is the off-road/trail capability. I still think some people will buy it and it is rated to tow an extra 2400 lbs over the liberty CRD. But this is more than double what I paid for my Liberty CRD so I couldn't make an arguement to buy one. If I had 40-50k to drop on a rig, it would be a pickup...most likely a cummins crew cab laramie. Again, that is IF I had that kind of money to drop...which I don't nor do I plan to. In my mind I just can't justify spending that kind of dough on a vehicle.

Bottom line is that I don't think this is going to be successful for DCX. Those who opt for it will likely do so because it is a Benz engine, or they are crazy about diesels. Anyone who is on a budget is not going to opt for it at that price. These are the consumers they should be targeting at this point in time. The main selling point is going to be the milage and most consumers who go out and drop 40-50k on a truck usually aren't too concerned with milage and they usually like to brag about their Hemi V-8 under the hood.etc..etc. .etc.

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

DadsDiesel wrote:

Hi,

I just had to pipe in on this one. I am currently in Ireland on an assignment for my company and I'd say 60-70% of all vehicles here are diesel. Most likely they are 90% standard shift. One of the women I work with here has NEVER driven an automatic!

I mean I have seen several types of SUV's here and they all have in the model nomenclature on the back doors/panels:

Isuzu 3.0i or VW Tdi or TDi yada, yada, yada.. you get the idea.

In the past week I have ridden in more cabs than I would care to admit to and they are ALL diesels. Not euro-econoboxes either. They are Volvos, Benzs, Audis, and BMWs. There are Toyota Camrys and VW Passats too.

We all know they have been shipping CRD Libbys all around the world for longer than the two years they have been sold here. I would like to know how many go out automatic. Keeping with the general rule of percentages... it must be 10-15%??

There are all kinds of American manufacturers in joint ventures manufacturing cars and in south america the ford ranger comes standard with a diesel!!!

To finish my editorial... doesn't almost feel like there is some kind of monkey business going on in the US market that makes it hard to sell quality diesel vehicles here??

My wife thinks the Libby is too small... I showed her ads for the GC CRD and told her once they have been out for a year I would get her one.... except it looks like now it will have to be an '08 or later till they get the bugs worked out.

I just want to point out that the obvious answer to both of these questions is the same. The US has the highest emissions standards in the world for cars, and as a result it is difficult to make a diesel meet those restrictions. Even the best diesels couldn't be sold in five states, including two of the largest population wise(California/New York), which makes it difficult to justify bringing a model to this market when millions of potential customers are off limits.

Bluetec and other new 'clean diesel' technologies are going to be changing this over the next few years hopefully, as well as a better understanding of just how bad CO2 is. Its not a conspiracy, its just related to environmental policy.

As for automatic transmissions, its a combination of them simply being more in demand in the US along with emissions as well, its far simpler to control the emissions on a vehicle thats automatic from the computer than it is for a manual. The percentage of autos sold aid car manufacturers in pushing up their overall averages...[/list]

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:18 pm

Reflex wrote:

DadsDiesel wrote:

Hi,

I just had to pipe in on this one. I am currently in Ireland on an assignment for my company and I'd say 60-70% of all vehicles here are diesel. Most likely they are 90% standard shift. One of the women I work with here has NEVER driven an automatic!

I mean I have seen several types of SUV's here and they all have in the model nomenclature on the back doors/panels:

Isuzu 3.0i or VW Tdi or TDi yada, yada, yada.. you get the idea.

In the past week I have ridden in more cabs than I would care to admit to and they are ALL diesels. Not euro-econoboxes either. They are Volvos, Benzs, Audis, and BMWs. There are Toyota Camrys and VW Passats too.

We all know they have been shipping CRD Libbys all around the world for longer than the two years they have been sold here. I would like to know how many go out automatic. Keeping with the general rule of percentages... it must be 10-15%??

There are all kinds of American manufacturers in joint ventures manufacturing cars and in south america the ford ranger comes standard with a diesel!!!

To finish my editorial... doesn't almost feel like there is some kind of monkey business going on in the US market that makes it hard to sell quality diesel vehicles here??

My wife thinks the Libby is too small... I showed her ads for the GC CRD and told her once they have been out for a year I would get her one.... except it looks like now it will have to be an '08 or later till they get the bugs worked out.

I just want to point out that the obvious answer to both of these questions is the same. The US has the highest emissions standards in the world for cars, and as a result it is difficult to make a diesel meet those restrictions. Even the best diesels couldn't be sold in five states, including two of the largest population wise(California/New York), which makes it difficult to justify bringing a model to this market when millions of potential customers are off limits.

Bluetec and other new 'clean diesel' technologies are going to be changing this over the next few years hopefully, as well as a better understanding of just how bad CO2 is. Its not a conspiracy, its just related to environmental policy.

As for automatic transmissions, its a combination of them simply being more in demand in the US along with emissions as well, its far simpler to control the emissions on a vehicle thats automatic from the computer than it is for a manual. The percentage of autos sold aid car manufacturers in pushing up their overall averages...[/list]

You forgot to add that it is much easier to drink that nice morning cup of coffee when you have an automatic

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:53 pm

vtdog wrote:

DCX IS ON DRUGS!!

I just went to the jeep site and the cheapest build I could find for the GC diesel was over 42k. At that price the dealers better figure on having their detail guy check for cobwebs under the chassis as they won't be moving very much.

That made me laugh :lol:

I'm willing to make a wager that the GC CRD will be on the used car block fairly quickly if DCX has not addressed the same issues found in the CRD. So, my plan is to drive the Libby CRD for another year until it's paid off and then look on the used car lot for GC CRD's at a much lower price than sticker now.

At least I would have the experience on what to expect and how to get around fixing those issues based on what we see on the Libby CRD. So let the masses take the hit on the new car price and drive those GCs around for a couple years until either the lease runs out or the service issues are to much to bear. I'll come around and buy used. :wink:

Jeger · **Posted:** Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:52 am

Reflex wrote:

I just want to point out that the obvious answer to both of these questions is the same. The US has the highest emissions standards in the world for cars, and as a result it is difficult to make a diesel meet those restrictions. Even the best diesels couldn't be sold in five states, including two of the largest population wise(California/New York), which makes it difficult to justify bringing a model to this market when millions of potential customers are off limits.

Bluetec and other new 'clean diesel' technologies are going to be changing this over the next few years hopefully, as well as a better understanding of just how bad CO2 is. Its not a conspiracy, its just related to environmental policy.

As for automatic transmissions, its a combination of them simply being more in demand in the US along with emissions as well, its far simpler to control the emissions on a vehicle thats automatic from the computer than it is for a manual. The percentage of autos sold aid car manufacturers in pushing up their overall averages

The US emission standards are a joke, they measure the emissions based on emissions/gallon of fuel burned regardless of how many miles that gallon will get you. For example you could compare a moped that got 100-150 MPG against a semi that gets around 8 MPG and under US regs the moped could still fail emissions while the semi passes. Doesnt make a whole lot of sense does it. A 50 MPG TDI is now illegal, but they still allow Excursions on the road.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:07 am

Experiment #1:
$25,000 Diesel (USA Emissions) w/ Auto Transmission and LSD

Expected sales @ around 5,000

Result for #1: More than doubled Expected Sales, LSD did not work well with EGR, Auto Tranny doesn't work well with Torquey Diesel

Overall Rating based on DC parameters: SUCCESS
Overall Ratings based on Customer perception:LOVE/HATE

Experiment #2 (#2 could be the key):
$40,000 Diesel (USA Emissions) w/ Auto Transmission and ULSD

Expected sales @ ???

#2 usually always just gets flushed

CRD Grand Cherokee available for order today.

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